Translation Desk 109

Archive Home > Middle-earth Languages
Laebeth 11/Feb/2006 at 11:46 AM
Counsellor of Elrond Points: 19794 Posts: 17474 Joined: 22/Feb/2002

~*~ Translation Desk ~*~

You step through an intricately carved arched doorway into the Library of Imladris. Ancient tomes and yellowed parchments are stored with care on shelves that reach to the vaulted ceilings of the long chamber. Special documents are displayed on lecterns. The peaceful hush of the room is occasionally disturbed by the rustling of papers, the faint scratching of quill on parchment, and the sighs of perplexed students seated at the numerous desks.  

In the center of the room is a desk bearing a placard labelled "Translation Desk". You are greeted with a welcoming smile.  

Greetings! How can we help you?

~ Please post what you would like to have translated.
~ Please state what language you would like to have it in.
~ Tengwar transcriptions may also be requested ~ that is the alphabet of Middle-earth.
~ Be patient; translators may not be around to respond right away. Using "please" is nice.
~
Please ask for translations here rather than starting new threads.  
~ If you would like your
name translated, please first look up the meaning of your name at www.behindthename.com and post that meaning here. You will find many names in Quenya here and in Sindarin here.

Some more experienced Language Forum regulars are:
Aelindis ~ Sindarin
Elhath ~ Quenya and Sindarin
Tyrhael ~ Quenya and Sindarin


Some members who are learning the Languages are:
Laebeth ~ Sindarin

ATTENTION!

Sometimes translations may be overlooked, or not done straight away. We do this in our free time because we have a love of Tolkiens Languages, and because we enjoy translating. This is not a paid job.  Requests for long translations, such as songs or poems, might not be done.

We recommend that you try simple translations (such as single words or names) for yourself, and then if youre uncertain, post it here for us to check over. For Sindarin, use Alcarnarmos Online Dictionary or DragonFlame. For Quenya, use Helge Fauskangers Wordlists  *If its not in the dictionaries, then it is not in Tolkiens Elvish.  Please try a synonym or settle for a reconstructed word.

A lot of people ask for phrases that have already been translated! Take a look at Taras Sindarin Phrases before asking.

And lastly, to all people learning Elvish, please try to translate the requests here!  We encourage you, for only by translating and making mistakes can you learn!  If you make a mistake, do not fret - one of the more experienced translators will be glad to point it out and explain it to you. But they will often not translate themselves, for they would rather see you try and learn then they do it!


Desk 108
Desk 107
Desk 106
Desk 105
Desk 104
Desk 103
Desk 102
Desk 101
Desk 100
(Please only start a new thread after 100 posts if you are able to translate)

<Language Mod edit>: Fixed Taramiluiel’s link.

Edraitheru_120 12/Feb/2006 at 04:00 PM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 1 Joined: 12/Feb/2006
Hello, I’m really new here, and I was just wondering if you guys could please translate a name for me, the name is Sterling, and it is in fact a woman’s name. In her name book she says it means valuable. I would like it translated in Quenya if possible, but Sindarin is fine too. Thank you very much!
Gwenniel De Mein 13/Feb/2006 at 07:10 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3061 Posts: 2306 Joined: 09/Dec/2008

Hi everyone, i posted this request in the last thread and didn’t get a response so i’m reposting here. Sorry to be a pain

  Gwenniel Sunday, January 01, 2006 at 14:13
  Istari Master     Points: 290     Posts: 166     Days: 382    View Gwenniel’s profileProfile Quote Gwenniel’s postQuote Delete Post Delete

Laebeth
Thanks for taking the time to answer me last thread round.

Anyone
I now have a translation for yous then. When i was a Dwarf someone kindly translated this to the appropriate language for me, i know ask the same, to Quenya it seems. My request then is this: "Sinners see no hell, and therefore they fear none." Last time a few words were changed, like "hell" and stuff, i ain’t picky about a literal translation, just something that means roughly what i’ve asked for. Many thanks.

Magradhaid 13/Feb/2006 at 11:47 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Gwenniel: carindor l cenir mandungwal, ar si rucint sallo. The literal translation is "Sinners do not see/behold hell, and therefore they have no fear of it." I trust that is sufficient. The word #mandungwal ’hell’ was a combo I made from manda ’duress, prison’ and ungwal ’torment’, since even though there is already a word for hell, it is simply ’hell’ in Tolkien’s mythos, i.e. Angband = Q. Angamanda ’iron prison’. I thought ’prison of torment’ for hell fit better than a reference to Morgoth’s fortress, unless this was meant to be used in the context of Middle-earth.
Ellitar Silverleaf 14/Feb/2006 at 12:30 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2601 Posts: 2873 Joined: 12/Jul/2005

well, I’m back again. I’m working on a piece for the "get your designed name here" thread in the A&FF forum, but I need a quote in it. Nimras: wants these lines translated into elvish and tengwar, if that’s possible.

I did not give you the light, 
I just helped you see it

something with: galad lin?
anyways, don’t mind that, I’m terrible at elvish... but I’m hoping you can help me with it?

Thank you!

Magradhaid 14/Feb/2006 at 03:57 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Ellitar: In Sindarin, perhaps: "Le -nen i galad, dan han le saedannen cened." Literally, "I did not give (to) you the light, but taught you to see it." #saeda- is a Sindarization of H. Fauskanger’s Q. #saita- ’teach’.
Ellitar Silverleaf 14/Feb/2006 at 11:25 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2601 Posts: 2873 Joined: 12/Jul/2005

sounds great Mynegeorn! It’s amazing how well you can translate everything, wonderfull job!
May it be in Tengwar aswell please?

Thank you, you’re the best!

Gwenniel De Mein 15/Feb/2006 at 10:41 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3061 Posts: 2306 Joined: 09/Dec/2008
Mynegeorn, thank you so much, it is more than sufficient. I greatly appreciate your taking the time out to do that for me, i know it’s kinda a weird fiddly one, not very straight forward! But i’m extremely grateful so thank you so much.
Lavinclo 15/Feb/2006 at 01:39 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 515 Posts: 78 Joined: 13/Feb/2006
Would someone be able to translate something into a name in Sindarian or Quenya (whichever is easiest) I was going to use the name Isildur, since I believe it means "devoted to the moon" but as that’s very cliche, and I’m not good enough with the language (not good at all, really) to form it out of existing words, I thought i’d ask. I just want something like "lover of the moon" or "devoted to the moon" that I can replace my existing name with. I’ve been familiar with behindthename but haven’t found anything of what I was looking for...thanks ahead of time, even if you just consider it, it’d be a great help
Lavinclo 15/Feb/2006 at 01:41 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 515 Posts: 78 Joined: 13/Feb/2006
I didn’t even get around to saying "please", I feel ashamed (since I didn’t think it was a plausible request anyways): pretty please with sugar on top?

I’ll remember my manners next time, I promise.
Metrey Dornen 16/Feb/2006 at 07:49 AM
Banned Points: 851 Posts: 486 Joined: 20/Jul/2005

Mynegeorn

Im srry about my crappy english but what i meant was "silver lake".

Aranhael 16/Feb/2006 at 09:53 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 993 Posts: 421 Joined: 27/May/2004
>carindor l cenir mandungwal, ar si rucint sallo. The literal translation is "Sinners do not see/behold hell, and therefore they have no fear of it."

Sounds good, but one negation is missing, as it seems: l rucinte sallo ;-)
Magradhaid 16/Feb/2006 at 01:50 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Aranhael: Ai! Smanya vanwa n ... a-nanta l

Anyway, metrey, silver lake would be Celebael or Aelgeleb in Sindarin, and in Quenya Telpailin or, if it’s a cold mountain lake, perhaps Telperingw or Tyelperingw. There’s also Telpinailin, Telemnailin, Tyelpelna, Sillna, etc.
xxxlizdudexxx 17/Feb/2006 at 06:58 PM
New Soul Points: 4 Posts: 2 Joined: 17/Feb/2006
Hey, I know I’m being incredibly cheeky here but I have two translation requests! You can just do one if it’s too much trouble, don’t spend ages doing it, lol. My Elvish name is Eruwaedhiel, and I have been trying to write it in Quenya, in the actual Elvish writing, but it seems each website I go on, I end up with a different result, so if it’s not too much trouble, could someone who knows how to do it please show me what Eruwaedhiel is using the Elvish alphabet? My other request is for someone to please help me translate the phrase ’death is only the beginning’. I have tried myself and gotten ’qualme na er i yesse’, but I don’t know anything about elvish grammar so i am not sure if this is right. I was trying to get it into Quenya, not Sindarin. Please could someone tell me if this is right, or correct me if it is wrong. Thankyou very much.
Melkelvardil 18/Feb/2006 at 05:04 AM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 539 Posts: 105 Joined: 17/Feb/2006

I was wondering if you could translate ’Hello and welcome’ to Dwarvish and Sindarin. Thanks alot!

Aelindis 18/Feb/2006 at 07:22 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Regarding the Sindarin translation, I would suggest: Ai a mae govannen!
Melkelvardil 18/Feb/2006 at 08:17 AM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 539 Posts: 105 Joined: 17/Feb/2006

Thanks

Magradhaid 18/Feb/2006 at 08:51 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
xxxlizdudexxx: I’m happy to clarify some things first of all, there are different words for ’death’ in Quenya, with different shades of meaning.
Id est...

anqual: agony, death (KWAL- is the stem for dying in pain), possibly replaces unqual
effri: death from et- ’out’ and the gerund of fir- "die by natural causes"
fair: the act of a natural death occurring; clashes with fair ’spirit’ and fair ’radiance’
firi: dying, death (the gerund of fir-)
nuru: death
qualm: death, agony (again from KWAL-)
unqual: agony, death (from KWAL-)

Now that you’ve seen those, I’d bet you wouldn’t want to go with qualm ’painful death’ ? I suggest firi.

Now, for the translation: The other words are good, but the word order isn’t. In Quenya, if you want to say "A is B" you write it as "B n A" i.e. "Golden is the flower", and for more emphasis there is "B A n". If you write "A is B", then it’s actually "A be B!" as an imperative, i.e. "Thy name be blessed".

So, for the word order of your quote I would write "Only the beginning death is," which would come out as "Er i yess firi n!"

Thanks to Thorsten for his article The verb ’to be’ in Elvish at his site Parma Tyelpelassiva, from whence the explanation on word order when using the verb ’to be’ came.    
xxxlizdudexxx 18/Feb/2006 at 08:57 AM
New Soul Points: 4 Posts: 2 Joined: 17/Feb/2006
Mynegeorn, thankyou so much for your help. X(X(
Ellitar Silverleaf 18/Feb/2006 at 04:07 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2601 Posts: 2873 Joined: 12/Jul/2005

I’m feeling really demanding right now, but may I ask for another Tengwar description, on top of the other? Because of the "get your name designed here" thread, I got some request for names in Tengwar. Since I’m not that skilled with that, I’m forced to go here. On top of the lines:

Le -nen i galad, dan han le saedannen cened

I would like the names:

Eithon and Tinessael

In Tengwar if that’s possible. I’d be reaaaalllly greatfull if you could do that for me. Thank you in advance, your the best!

Ista Sharrasi 18/Feb/2006 at 08:03 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003

This would be a question for any and all of the languages...

Is there a word for BINGO (as in the game) in any of the languages with the same amount of letters as the original word? I want to get a Bingo game going for our OOT members, but I need the translation.

Thank you so very much everyone!

Boya 19/Feb/2006 at 08:25 AM
New Soul Points: 23 Posts: 6 Joined: 07/Jan/2006

Mynegeorn:

Cheers for the translation, would it be possible for you to put "Eat, Drink and Be Merry" as well as "the sun shines upon the hour of our meeting" into the full tengwar for me?

Boya 19/Feb/2006 at 08:25 AM
New Soul Points: 23 Posts: 6 Joined: 07/Jan/2006

Mynegeorn:

Cheers for the translation, would it be possible for you to put "Eat, Drink and Be Merry" as well as "the sun shines upon the hour of our meeting" into the full tengwar for me?

Boya 19/Feb/2006 at 09:08 AM
New Soul Points: 23 Posts: 6 Joined: 07/Jan/2006

sorry to be a nuisance but could you change the second phrase to "the stars shine upon the hour of our meeting"

cheers

Aiw Nenharma 19/Feb/2006 at 10:03 AM
Historian of Lothlorien Points: 4148 Posts: 3637 Joined: 09/Jul/2004
Hi! I would like to have a few short translations that could be used as names here on the forum. Could anyone please translate song-lover, singing star, bird-friend and spring flower into Sindarin? Thank you very much in advance.
Merne Trante 19/Feb/2006 at 11:35 AM
Scholar of Erebor Points: 3718 Posts: 4563 Joined: 05/Apr/2004

uhm...As my mum has been complaining about my rather gruffly (according to her; I just call it short) voicemailmessage I thought it`d be nice to have a new, friendly one. And what isn`t friendlier than the fluent language of the Elves, aye? I don`t think I want the word "voicemail" to be translated into Sindarin because if I do translate it no-one will know that it is a voicemail.

The message I would like to have: Hello, this is Merne`s voicemail (I will put my RL name here)  please speak your message after the beep (or tone) and I will call you back.
The messag I brewed: Suil, nai Merne`s voicemail, pedo man you want to trenared  me laer a canin le ad.
The literal translation of siad brewing: Hello, this is merne `s voicemail, say what you want to tell me after the song and I call back.

I do have problems with mutation, I always get stuck in it, so I did not do it here (it already cost me half an hour to make what i have now, I am sorry for my lazyness on this part). Perhaps one of you can explain me how to do it in this sentence? As well as the construction "tell me what you want" causes problems. Only basic, very basic, knowledge here, so this is all I can make of it. I hope someone can help me out here (and then catch people` s faces as they try to call me )

Oh, and another thing, if it is not too much ..any pronounciationtips might be handy...I know basics, and I have Sil here with the prounciationkey and such, but if there is a tricky word that may be trap to novices, it`d be nice if someone could point the trap out to me...

Loads of cookies and thanks in advance!

Magradhaid 19/Feb/2006 at 07:15 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Ellitar: In the mode of Beleriand, you write ;l3h6 in the Tengwar to get Eithon. Tinessael is 1`B6lk]lj ... The long phrase is jl .FhF6l6 ` s]j]2 = 2]6 9]6 jl i]l2]5l6 al6l2 =-= in the font.

As an image, those are:


Ista Sharassi: Er, no, there’s no translation for ’Bingo’ in Elvish, it’s just a nonsense word. But you could easily pick another word in Elvish that’s five letters long, like Teilo "Let’s play!" in Sindarin.

Boya: By ’full’ tengwar I assume you mean the full mode without tehtar, so:



I wrote each one twice; once orthographically, once phonemically.

Aiw: I could Sindarize Quenya ’bird friend’ aiwendil into aewennil, but a compound of two Sindarin words might be masc. aewheron and fem. aewheril. Singing Star would easily be Ellirel from l + glirel, or Ellinol from l + linnol. As for Spring Flower, tuilloth or ethuilloth would be a good choice in my opinion.

Merne: nai is not a Sindarin word... also, man ’who’ is an interrogative, not relative, i.e. ’what?’ not ’what/that which’.

How about:

Suil, sen i nangwethaud Merne; naro enni bith thellen ln ebin ’lr a le dengenithon.

"Hello, this [is] Merne’s answering machine; tell me your intended words after the song and I will call you back."

Constructions of mine:
dangweth + gaud = answering machine
OS #ndankani- (S #dangan-) = to call back

As far as I know, ad means ’back’ as in ’again, another time, re-’, not as in ’return, answer’.

#ebin is hypothetical for ab + i.

Pronunciation would be something like: Sweel, SEN ee NAHNG-weth-owd MAIR-neh: NAHR-o ENNee beeth THEL-len LEEN EBin LEER ah LEH deng-EN-ee-thon.

Basically, pronounce the a’s like a in father, e as in met and er as air, i as in machine, o in between raw and door, and au as in ow! The r’s are trilled, not voiceless as in English. Elrond, Gandalf, and Saruman do good trilled R’s in the movies, whereas Frodo makes Mordor sound like Moa-doa. Lastly, if consonants are doubled, they’re lengthened, i.e. short ’penny’ vs. long ’penknife’. I hope I helped. If anyone spots a slip-up, comments are welcomed.
Magradhaid 19/Feb/2006 at 07:19 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Ack! Looking back, I think aewheron and aewheril should have S’s, not H’s.
Ista Sharrasi 19/Feb/2006 at 08:47 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Mynegeorn, thank you  That will work, but I wonder; is there anything I might be able to use? Just for the idea of changing it up a few times to keep interest in it as the games go on?
Aelindis 19/Feb/2006 at 09:55 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Mynegeorn, probably you want plural thellin?
(And what about *aemellon?)
Ellitar Silverleaf 20/Feb/2006 at 02:03 AM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2601 Posts: 2873 Joined: 12/Jul/2005
that looks wonderfull, thank you so much Mynegeorn. I’ve downloaded the font aswell, so if I ever need something in Tengwar again, you can just say what I have to type. That’s probably easier for you aswell...
thank you!
Merne Trante 20/Feb/2006 at 05:43 AM
Scholar of Erebor Points: 3718 Posts: 4563 Joined: 05/Apr/2004
Menygron *giggles* it sounds all fantastic hahahaha. Thank you. I will study hte pronounciation later a bit furhter but as far as I can see it I understand it completely.
Aiw Nenharma 20/Feb/2006 at 06:49 AM
Historian of Lothlorien Points: 4148 Posts: 3637 Joined: 09/Jul/2004
Mynegeron - thank you very much for your help!
Magradhaid 20/Feb/2006 at 08:20 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Aelindis: Yes, you are right about thellin, thank you for bringing that to my attention. As for aemellon, would the m become a v like with elvellon? If that holds true, maybe aevellon and aeveldis...

To the others: No problem; it was rather fun to work on.

Ista Sharassi: There is also turen ’my victory!’, cenin ’I cry out’, minui ’first!’, tedir or tidir ’straight line’... naiss ’corners’ if you’re playing 4 corners style, echor ’outer ring’ if you’re playing ’box’ bingo, etc.
Magradhaid 20/Feb/2006 at 08:22 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Whoops, I mean Sharrasi! My bad.
Aelindis 20/Feb/2006 at 10:58 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Mynegeorn: Yes probably, cf. gwelwen, though on the other hand we have Gwaehir without lenition. So maybe both versions might be possible.

Boya 20/Feb/2006 at 05:19 PM
New Soul Points: 23 Posts: 6 Joined: 07/Jan/2006
Much obliged Mynegeorn, im not too sure what the difference is between full and normal tengwar or exactly what tehtar is but i think the 1st version of eat drink and be merry will look nice as a tatoo, again thankyou
Hoth 20/Feb/2006 at 05:51 PM
Master of the Lone Lands Points: 16858 Posts: 16218 Joined: 12/Sep/2002
Could someone please give me a translation of "Beloved of his Father" into the Quenya?  I will be forever grateful
Magradhaid 21/Feb/2006 at 09:00 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Aelindis: Yes, since I think gwelwen would be from gwelwina and the other is just a normal compound.

Hoth: Perhaps Melda atareryo, though you can elide it as Meld’ atareryo if you like it better that way or for stress; such elisions are attested in phrases like tenn’ Ambar-metta and lmenn’ omentielvo. Since this wording could also be read as ’Of his Beloved Father’, you could also write Atareryo melda. Also, ’of’ is a little iffy; I wonder whether to use the genitive or instrumental: Meld’ Atareryanen would literally be ’Beloved by his Father.’ You have a couple choices; if anything is unclear I’ll be here.

Boya: As long as you only pick one of the four lines; each one says the same thing. As for tehtar, they are symbols put above the consonants to mark the vowels. In the full mode, the vowels have symbols of their own and are written as normal letters. Anyway, good luck with your tattoo, if that’s what you’re going to do! I just triple-checked the first one, and I’m sure it exactly follows the way that Tolkien wrote English in tengwar to Hugh Brogan during December 1948 [see Letter 118 of JRRT: pg. 132].
Melkelvardil 21/Feb/2006 at 12:30 PM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 539 Posts: 105 Joined: 17/Feb/2006
Hi. I was wondering if someone could please translate "My Birthday is on 1st of June"? Thanks a lot:)
Ista Sharrasi 21/Feb/2006 at 02:46 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Thanks Myne! And no problem; I get that spelling so much that I’ve given up correcting it XD I’ll grab hold of two or three of those and use them; thanks!
Magradhaid 21/Feb/2006 at 04:56 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Melkelvardil: Into what language?
Gwenniel De Mein 22/Feb/2006 at 02:26 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3061 Posts: 2306 Joined: 09/Dec/2008
Hi, some quite simple requests from me. I would like "greetings my friend" turned into Quenya please and thank you
Melkelvardil 22/Feb/2006 at 08:09 AM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 539 Posts: 105 Joined: 17/Feb/2006

Mynegeorn: Forgive me. Sindarin if that’s ok

Magradhaid 22/Feb/2006 at 10:57 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Melkelvardil: Ni onnen minui uin Nrui "I was born on the first of June" or Oronnad nn minui uin Nrui "My day of birth [is] the first of June." One must note that onna- originally meant ’to birth’ but later became ’to beget’, though since Elves normally are born a year after conception, it would work for them. I suppose you could stretch it and use it for humans, but that might be out of context.

Gwenniel: The first word would be either Aiya ’hail!’ or Alar / alla / ala ’Hail’ or ’Blessed be thou’, and the second either meldenya / sermenya / nildenya ’my female friend’ or meldonya / sermonya / nildonya ’my male friend’. Combine them as you will.
Gwenniel De Mein 23/Feb/2006 at 06:42 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3061 Posts: 2306 Joined: 09/Dec/2008
Mynegeorn, again many thanks
Niniel 24/Feb/2006 at 04:48 AM
Winemaker of Lothlorien Points: 1139 Posts: 3303 Joined: 11/Jan/2002

Hi!  I was wondering if someone could translate ocean soul to Quenya for me. Thanks

Magradhaid 24/Feb/2006 at 09:46 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Niniel: Well, ar is ’ocean/sea’, and soul is fa, so a compound Erfa could be made. There’s also a word Tolkien made, falmarin(d-), which means ’sea-spirit’, like an ocean nymph. So either Erfa or Falmarin would be fine.
mrspirit 24/Feb/2006 at 03:46 PM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 1 Joined: 24/Feb/2006

Not a very noble cause, I know, but I’m trying to translate "I can see down your cleavage" into Quenya (I think). So far the best I’ve come up with is "Armin ele ndu ambarlle", patched together from a bunch of online dictionaries. Is this right? And if possible, how would it be written?

Much gratitude for any help!

Elhath 25/Feb/2006 at 02:13 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
mrspirit: Quenya was the more "ancient" and later on, the traditional language among Elves (except in Valinor), and the language that Men used much for names but seldom in speech, save in oath-making and the like. Unfortunately, you seem to have stumbled upon material which is originally from the Grey Company website... it has little to do with actual Quenya by JRRT. That being said, maybe * Lert()an cen hyandielyanna (or ciryandelyanna ) would be something even the "ethereal and nobly abstinent" Elves might have comprehended correctly... (!)

You can check the Tengwar writing pretty quickly through here (just change the input "lang" to Quenya).

Grammar notes: lerta- is the verb "can, be able" when it’s not about your own potential or acquired knowledge; -- marks a once-attested present progressive tense on derived verbs and implies an ongoing condition; -lya is the possessive suffix "your"; and -nna the allative case ending.
Mnasaputra 25/Feb/2006 at 05:59 AM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 8 Joined: 25/Feb/2006

Hello,

somebody can translate the two following sentences for me in Quenya:

"the brotherhood of the moon" and "children of stars"

Thank you.

Aravaltur 25/Feb/2006 at 02:45 PM
Winemaker of Lothlorien Points: 1175 Posts: 690 Joined: 22/Dec/2003
Could someone please translate ’welcome home’ in the language of the Elves of Lorien. *Can’t remember which one it is, lol.* Thank you.
Magradhaid 25/Feb/2006 at 04:49 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Mnasaputra: 1) Isil’ Otornass or Otornass Isilo. 2) Eleny Hni, Hni Elenion, Hni lion, Hni Eldion, Elenni, etc.

Aravaltur: That would be Sindarin. Mae tollen na mar!
Mnasaputra 26/Feb/2006 at 04:48 AM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 8 Joined: 25/Feb/2006
Thank you very much. :)
Mnasaputra 26/Feb/2006 at 06:52 AM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 8 Joined: 25/Feb/2006

Hello, i have another request into Quenya:

"star of north", "sparkling star" and "star dust".

Thank you.

Magradhaid 26/Feb/2006 at 09:06 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Mnasaputra: 1. Fortielen, Formenel, 2. Tinw, Tingilind, 3. Elenasto, lasto
Mnasaputra 26/Feb/2006 at 09:43 AM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 8 Joined: 25/Feb/2006
Thank you Mynegeorn.
Aravaltur 26/Feb/2006 at 07:43 PM
Winemaker of Lothlorien Points: 1175 Posts: 690 Joined: 22/Dec/2003
Thank you Mynegeorn.
Unquello 27/Feb/2006 at 10:07 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 320 Posts: 16 Joined: 22/Jul/2004

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to translate something into Quenya for me. It is from the Bible, Hebrews 4:12 - "For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."  I would be more than pleased if you only translated up to sword. But, if you are feeling extra ambitious, I would appreciate it if you could do the entire verse. Thank you in advance. Have a great day.

Unquello

Unquello 27/Feb/2006 at 10:25 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 320 Posts: 16 Joined: 22/Jul/2004

Hello,

I tried posting this earlier. I’m not sure if it went through or not. I was wondering if anyone would have the time to translate something into Quenya for me. It is from the Bible; Hebrews 4:12 - "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." I would be more than pleased if someone could translate up to sword. I would be ecstatic if someone would translate the entire verse. Thank you and have a great day.

Unquello 27/Feb/2006 at 10:34 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 320 Posts: 16 Joined: 22/Jul/2004

Sorry for posting twice. I’ve got browser problems.

Mnasaputra 27/Feb/2006 at 01:59 PM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 8 Joined: 25/Feb/2006

Sorry to disturb you once again ,

if somebody can translate me into Quenya:

"the inn", "the library", "hall of merchants", "hall of the lyre", "hall of the community", "hall of the ceremonies", "hall of secrecies", "guest", "friend", "office", "trading post", "calligraphist", "linguist".

Thank a lot. :)

Magradhaid 27/Feb/2006 at 03:42 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Unquello: An i quetta Eruo linta ar valainqua n, ar maica pella attahyanda macil... I might do the rest later.

Mnasaputra: 1. sorry, no clue 2. i Parmass 3. Mardi Mancariva 4. Mard Salmava 5. Mard Nosseliva 6. Mard --?----iva 7. Mard Fleva 8. ?? 9. meldo (m) meld (f) 10. ?? 11. Ampano Mancalva 12. tecilmo 13. tengwestamo Sorry I don’t know ’guest’, ’ceremony’, or ’office.’
Mnasaputra 28/Feb/2006 at 04:46 AM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 8 Joined: 25/Feb/2006

Thank a lot Mynegeorn.

 

Mnasaputra 28/Feb/2006 at 06:43 AM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 8 Joined: 25/Feb/2006

Sorry to disturb you once again ^^.

The last request  "Hall of the meetings"

Thank a lot

Elhath 28/Feb/2006 at 01:28 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
How about *lmicoa "nighthouse" for "inn" and ettela "foreign/stranger" for "guest" (vieras is also either an adjective or noun in Finnish and used for "guest").

A tentative compounding, *meressito "festival custom" (with ?sito from the 1910-20’s Qenya Lexicon, p. 84) might be taken into consideration when thinking about a word for "ceremony".

*Mmen or *omomen might make a more modern word for "office" (place of toil!) ... Otherwise one might think something like *veuma(nm), lit. "(place of) service", with the root BEW (and also noting http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=office)
Nethron 28/Feb/2006 at 02:29 PM
Elder of Isengard Points: 115 Posts: 6344 Joined: 18/Sep/2005
Just a few translations into Sindarin for me, please. 

Cloak of Darkness, Wise Counsellor, and Ice Being

Thanks muchly! 
Elhath 28/Feb/2006 at 02:45 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
On second thought, it should be lmecoa (per lmelind) instead; not utilizing the inflectional stem.
Magradhaid 28/Feb/2006 at 04:12 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Elhath: By the way, I seem to remember you involved in a translation on this site or another (TORC, CoE?) which I think involved the same verse that Unquello mentioned, or at least the ’two-edged sword’ part. I believe you put together a compound for that using attahyanda or something with the dual... do you have any memory of what that word might have been? I can’t find that thread anywhere, or I’m not looking where I should.

Mnasaputra: Mard ??? ... The second word consists of yomeni + -iva, but I am unsure how those two react since -ii is not known to occur in any Quenya I’ve seen... My guess is Yomenva but don’t take that as an answer; I’m waiting for a reply from Elfling or any person more versed in Quenya phonology.

Dagorthalion: As compounds or separate words?
1. Morgoll, Morgol, Fuingol
2. Gruhael (g-re-mo + saila) or Grugoll or Grugol (g-re-mo + ngolda)
3. Perhaps Helegu from (khelek-we)? I know of no Sindarin equal for Quenya ala.
Mistaken 28/Feb/2006 at 05:35 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1406 Posts: 3061 Joined: 25/Aug/2004
Any chance I could get Sindarin and Tengwar translations of "notoriously late"? It’s rather a long story, but I think it’d be a really handy thing to know in Elvish. So thanks for your time.
Elhath 01/Mar/2006 at 01:05 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Mynegeorn, I believe it was the same word you use above, *attahyanda (adjectival formation from ?hyanda "blade, share", LT2:342 [-a]).
Mnasaputra 01/Mar/2006 at 05:17 AM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 8 Joined: 25/Feb/2006

Thank a lot Elhath  and Mynegeorn ! :)

Unquello 01/Mar/2006 at 09:55 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 320 Posts: 16 Joined: 22/Jul/2004

Much thanks Mynegeorn. Hopefully, I’ll be able to do some of this myself soon. Thanks again.

Unquello

Jedi Ranger 02/Mar/2006 at 07:21 AM
New Soul Points: 460 Posts: 222 Joined: 28/Feb/2006
Oh hey, um what does Alex  translate to in elvish? Dwarvish? Morgul? 
Jedi Ranger 02/Mar/2006 at 07:22 AM
New Soul Points: 460 Posts: 222 Joined: 28/Feb/2006
Sorry this is not trying to be spamming but i want to put in a PLEASE for all this  nice work u guys are doing
Jedi Ranger 02/Mar/2006 at 09:09 AM
New Soul Points: 460 Posts: 222 Joined: 28/Feb/2006

All right coud someone give me some really good insults in elvish? PLease keep the swear words out of it, there may be a Elvish lore master authority figure in my world.  I am only asking for 3 or so

how do you say "you nerd"  i just really want to know how to say it, it is not supposed to apply to you fine people.

Mistaken 02/Mar/2006 at 01:27 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1406 Posts: 3061 Joined: 25/Aug/2004
(A better way to post what you just did might be to ask for one translation, wait for a reply, then you can get your next translation without triple posting, which is generally frowned upon.)
I’m not sure if these are extremely accurate, but there is a variety of different phrases at this website.
http://www.grey-company.org/Circle/language/phrase.htm
If it’s not completely accurate, it’s pretty close, I’ve asked for comparisons on occasion and they’re pretty good.
Lavinclo 02/Mar/2006 at 07:58 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 515 Posts: 78 Joined: 13/Feb/2006
Would someone pretty please tell me or translate (I don’t know if it’s been done yet) the sons of Feanor’s namse into Quenya? From what I’ve seen the only things in Quenya are their mother-names, but I remember reading some names like "Nelyafinwe" for Maedhros but If i’m not mistaken those arent their names translated.any help would be much appreciated
Aelindis 02/Mar/2006 at 10:52 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Ruin De Mein: No, sorry, the ’grelvish’ language of the grey company is not  Tolkien’s Elvish. This fact is stated explicitly on their main language page here .

Aelindis 02/Mar/2006 at 11:10 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Lavinclo:   Nelyafinw (Maedros), Kanafinw (Maglor), Turkafinw (Celegorm), Kurufinw (Curufin), Morifinw (Caranthir), Pityafinw (Amrod), Telufinw (Amras), cf. PM:352/353.
Nethron 04/Mar/2006 at 01:11 PM
Elder of Isengard Points: 115 Posts: 6344 Joined: 18/Sep/2005
Thanks Mynegorn

Could I also have a translation of ’healer,’ ’healing,’ and ’to heal’ in all languages in which they are known.  Thanks in advance. 
King Amras 05/Mar/2006 at 03:24 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 1171 Posts: 2032 Joined: 10/Jun/2005
IMPERIAL POWERS: i dont know about the insult or the dwarvish or morgul but "Alex" mean protector of mankind to the greek so in quenya, after breaking down some of the sylables to their roots for lenght reason, Alex becomes Varyaner
Melkelvardil 06/Mar/2006 at 11:31 AM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 539 Posts: 105 Joined: 17/Feb/2006

Ai a! How do you say ’Thank You’ in the high speech? Thanks a lot! Much appreciated!

Lilu Olnathron 06/Mar/2006 at 12:56 PM
Scholar of Imladris Points: 6873 Posts: 9100 Joined: 28/Nov/2002

Could someone tell me how to say "Stand, and show yourselves!" in Sindarin please? I’m having problems with the second half of the sentence - got as far as "Erio, a..."

Hannon le.

Magradhaid 06/Mar/2006 at 01:32 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Dagorthalion: Nethron / nethril is healer (male/female) in Sindarin with nesta- the verb ’to heal’ and the adjective ’healing’ nestadren. Envinyata- ’heal/renew’ in Quenya with envinyatar as ’healer’.

Melkelvardil: Hantan le, perhaps?

Lilu: Perhaps a verb ’reveal’ aldholtha- could be made from al- + doltha-?
Nethron 06/Mar/2006 at 05:11 PM
Elder of Isengard Points: 115 Posts: 6344 Joined: 18/Sep/2005
Mynegorn - Gee, I think I’ve finally found something suitable for a name.  Sounds very wizzie-ish, wouldn’t you say?    Thanks a bunch! 
onlyelephants 07/Mar/2006 at 01:28 PM
New Soul Points: 14 Posts: 16 Joined: 24/Jun/2005

Hi, I moved a while ago and lost some translations and tengwar that I had.  Can anyone please translate and write them in tengwar for me? Thank you...

1. DONALD

Gender: Masculine

Usage: Scottish, English

Pronounced: DAHN-awld [key]

From the Gaelic name Domhnall which means "ruler of the world", composed of the Old Celtic elements dumno "world" and val "rule". Two kings of Scotland have borne this name.

2. MARLENE

Gender: Feminine

Usage: German, English

Pronounced: MAHR-leen [key]

Blend of MARIA and MAGDALENE. Refers, therefore, to Mary Magdalene, a character in the New Testament. The name was first used by the German actress and singer Marlene Dietrich, whose real name was Maria Magdalene von Losch.

3. DAD

Star Flower 07/Mar/2006 at 01:29 PM
Elder of Erebor Points: 19230 Posts: 21250 Joined: 28/Jun/2003

Just thought I’d let you know, the following links are out of date:

Sindarin here & Taras Sindarin Phrases .

Though the last link can be found here: RPG Phrases & Titles  (From Imladris’s KP’s where Tara uploaded it.)

Magradhaid 07/Mar/2006 at 02:24 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
onlyelephants: What language did you want them translated into?
onlyelephants 07/Mar/2006 at 08:43 PM
New Soul Points: 14 Posts: 16 Joined: 24/Jun/2005
Mynegeorn-in Sindarin please
CallistoLexx 08/Mar/2006 at 12:19 PM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 2 Joined: 08/Mar/2006

Hi, everyone.  I hope this is the right thread to post this in, it seems like it is, but I’ve been known to make mistakes.  I’m new here and I have a question that I don’t know who to go to about it.  I’ll try to make it short and sweet since I have a tendency to babble.

To start off, my nickname is Pippin and I’m interested in having that name tattooed on me in Tengwar Quenya.  The problem is that I don’t know the language and don’t have the attention span to learn it and everything I’ve read thus far has just confused me further.  I downloaded the Tengwar Cursive font off Council-of-Elrond.com, but that doesn’t exactly work out quite right when translating the name (as different sources out there say).  So I was wondering if anyone out there smarter than I could please help me out.

I do know that just because Pippin is the English name, it most likely isn’t the Elvish counterpart to it.  I would like for the tattoo to be as accurate as possible (after all, it will be with me for the rest of my life), so does anyone know what the translation would be?  And once that’s established, which key combination should I use to write it out properly with the font?

If this is something no one can help with, or doesn’t feel like helping with, I understand, and I could just go with the Elvish Common Language font, since that is a neat font and would be a good substitute.  I just thought that, in addition to Tengwar being a really beautiful font, it would be a bit better to try it that way first, because if it can be done, that’s really what I’d prefer.

The first post in this thread said it helped if the name meaning was included and Behind the Name had two different entries for it so I’m posting them both here:

Pippin (1): Varient of Ppin (the meaning of that is: Old French name of unknown meaning. It possibly means "awe-inspiring" from Old French bib- "to tremble". This was the name of three majordomos of Austrasia including Ppin III the Short, who became the first Carolingian king of the Franks. He was the father of Charlemagne.)

Pippin (2): The name of a hobbit in ’The Lord of the Rings’ by J. R. R. Tolkien. His full first name was Peregrin, a semi-translation into English of his true hobbit name Razanur meaning "traveller".

I’m not sure if either of those helps at all, but it’s worth a shot and the extra info can never hurt.

Thank you for any help any of you can lend.  I really appreciate it, especially since I know that none of you have to help those of us out there who have no clue about the various Middle Earth languages.  It’s wonderful and very nice of you all to assist.
~Tif/Pippin~

Magradhaid 08/Mar/2006 at 01:28 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Callisto: Tolkien translated Pippin into Sindarin as Cordof, seemingly meaning ’small red apple’, which is what the word ’pippin’ means in botany. I am unsure what the Quenya translation would be: perhaps Cordomo? I’ll deal with tengwar once I find out if Cordomo is likely.

onlyelephants: I have to go to a meeting now until 8 PM (and it’ll likely take another hour to get home), so I might have time to do your translations tonight.
onlyelephants 08/Mar/2006 at 02:08 PM
New Soul Points: 14 Posts: 16 Joined: 24/Jun/2005
Whenever you get a chance, thank you!
CallistoLexx 09/Mar/2006 at 06:37 AM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 2 Joined: 08/Mar/2006

Mynegeorn: Thank you so much!  Please, take your time.  I know you do this in your free time and I really appreciate you helping out. 

~Pippin~

scoutsol 09/Mar/2006 at 08:27 AM
Assassin of Mordor Points: 6413 Posts: 5973 Joined: 02/Oct/2003
Can someone make sense of this? I am working out a new female name, this one I made using some odd words off a list in the Rivvie FAQs. I am positive it doesnt make sense, after I saw all the rules about combining words, but I was hoping to get someone to help me work it out. I was going for something at least similar to my name now, it doesnt have to rhyme or match exactly, obviously. I appreciate any suggestions, too! Thanks ahead of time!

Gl-Hiddess- something to do with honey, and a young woman, and the Hid was leftover from my old name. :P

Ellitar Silverleaf 09/Mar/2006 at 02:12 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2601 Posts: 2873 Joined: 12/Jul/2005

Hello, I’m back again, this time a small question. I wish to start a house called: home of dreams and laughter. I looked over the sindarin phrases page and this is what I came up with:

Mar o Elei a Lalaith

Can you tell me if this is correct? I’m not entirely sure, especially the "home of dreams and laughter" part. I couldn’t find what that would be translated into sindarin... if you could help me out I’d be very greatfull...
thank you in advance!

Elhath 09/Mar/2006 at 04:20 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Ellitar, I would say Bar en Ely a Lalaith, but ?Elei is also argued by some to be a legit Sindarin plural (whichever comes from Old Sindarin *olohi); on *ely & Fauskanger see here.
Eirwen555 09/Mar/2006 at 09:40 PM
Youth of Imladris Points: 73 Posts: 5 Joined: 09/Mar/2006

Can anyone translate a few name for me? I need "misty lake" in either Sindarin or Quenya, preferably Sindarin, for a female elf’s name, "house of the golden leaves", and "the exiles".  Thanks in advance!

Magradhaid 11/Mar/2006 at 08:44 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Eirwen555: Perhaps Hithuinen or Hithuiael for ’misty lake’, Car e-Laiss Melthin or Car e-Mellaiss for ’house of the golden leaves’, and in edledhryn for ’the exiles’. Those would be Hsinen, Coa Lauri Lassiva, and i Hecili in Quenya.
Ellitar Silverleaf 11/Mar/2006 at 12:30 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2601 Posts: 2873 Joined: 12/Jul/2005

Ah, I see... but isn’t the word "Eleidan" for "dream smith" also wrong then? I’m just asking since the EAA in Imladris uses that title...
But the translation for "of" would be "en" then, and the translation for "home" would be "bar"? Because I have read different things now and I’m a little confused. The KP’s of imladris say its "mar"  and you tell me it’s "bar". Difficult language, this is...
*is confuzzled*

Magradhaid 11/Mar/2006 at 07:37 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Re: Eleidan - Well, I didn’t make that. I would add l + tn to get Oldan. The word is bar but it is mar when lenited. Mar is also the Quenya word. ’of’ can either be silent but implied, en-, in-, i-, or e-, depending on the situation. With proper nouns like Noss Thorond ’Thorsten’s Family’, Ennyn Durin ’Doors of Durin’, and Aran Moria ’King of Moria’ it is left out.
Eirwen555 13/Mar/2006 at 07:05 PM
Youth of Imladris Points: 73 Posts: 5 Joined: 09/Mar/2006
Thank you, Menegeon! I appreciate your help.
Tolotos 15/Mar/2006 at 12:13 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1756 Posts: 1449 Joined: 09/Aug/2005

Greetings, all.
I would very much like your help on a small matter:
For my house, I am looking for the names of certain bodyparts, or related to that. From the Sindarin dictionary I have collected some of them. Could you see if they are correct, and, hopefully, complete the missing words?

head      Dl
mind      ?
hand      Crum
heart      Gr
backbone / spine   ?

And one that sits apart from the others:
Knight    meathor (I know, it means warrior, but it’s the closest thing I could find).

Thanks for your trouble.

Thorsten 15/Mar/2006 at 04:04 AM
Banned Points: 2659 Posts: 2540 Joined: 05/Nov/2003
gr is not ’heart’ as a body-part, but rather as some kind of instinct or conscience.
Maewen 15/Mar/2006 at 06:57 AM
Youth of Imladris Points: 299 Posts: 246 Joined: 25/Nov/2003
gr is rather "mind", and "heart" would be hn. There’s no word for "backbone" as far as I know.
Morgan la Fe 15/Mar/2006 at 07:54 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3426 Posts: 2650 Joined: 19/Jun/2004

Greetings all. Could someone please help me with translation of the following into English? Feowen in the middle is my name, and therefore doesn’t need to be translated.

 

Ar echennim eneglr, i melithal, sui hartham. Feowen ah im echennir vudas ovor ni lr hen!

 

Thank you in advance.
Aelindis 15/Mar/2006 at 08:42 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Quote: Originally posted by ~Feowen~ on Wednesday, March 15, 2006

Ar echennim eneglr, i melithal, sui hartham. Feowen ah im echennir vudas ovor ni lr hen! 


My translation would be: "And we made a (??)-song, that you will love, as we hope. Feowen and I made much labour for this song."
I don’t understand eneglr.

 

Morgan la Fe 15/Mar/2006 at 10:03 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3426 Posts: 2650 Joined: 19/Jun/2004
Thanks muchly!!!!  I’ll try to figure out eneglr myself. Thanks again!
Rynn Grayheart 15/Mar/2006 at 02:50 PM
New Soul Points: 0 Posts: 4 Joined: 11/Mar/2006

Greatings! I need something to be translated if posible? And written in elivsh runes also please ... many thanks,

"For we are but Atani and death is our Fate. Such is the gift of Iluvatar"

Cherreh 18/Mar/2006 at 05:28 PM
New Soul Points: 60 Posts: 4 Joined: 07/May/2005

Hello all translators! I have one favor to ask you guys, could you please translate my name into elvish? Sindarin or Quenyan,it’s your pick!  The meaning of my name comes from two Chinese characters. One meaning "glittering, gleaming, shining, sparkling, flashy, bright etc." and the other "blessing", so  my name would mean "glittering blessing" or something in the like(I’m not sure if the Elvish language even has so many words for something that’s shiny ).

Thank you so much in advace!

Magradhaid 19/Mar/2006 at 08:53 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Rynn: Into what language?

Cherreh: In Quenya, perhaps Rillri, Almarilm, Mirillri, almri, Almril, Almarill etc.
Cherreh 20/Mar/2006 at 04:00 PM
New Soul Points: 60 Posts: 4 Joined: 07/May/2005

Mynegeorn: Thank you very much!!

scoutsol 23/Mar/2006 at 09:16 AM
Assassin of Mordor Points: 6413 Posts: 5973 Joined: 02/Oct/2003
No ideas on my question? How about ’honey maid’ in some language appropriate to men? Numenorean men. Or women in my case. :P
Jedi Ranger 23/Mar/2006 at 09:23 AM
New Soul Points: 460 Posts: 222 Joined: 28/Feb/2006
Hey how do you say i love you in elvish? i really need it to impress this girl, i really hope you can help me.  pleaseeeeeeeeeeessssseeeeeeeee!
Magradhaid 23/Mar/2006 at 02:18 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Imperial Powers: Try Le melin in Sindarin or Iny tye-mla in Quenya.

Min-Hiddth: Perhaps Gliniel from gl + d + iell or Dilieth from CE #ndisi-glisi-itt. Gliwen is a straight compound with the meaning, though I don’t like how it sounds. Are any to your liking?
King Amras 24/Mar/2006 at 03:57 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 1171 Posts: 2032 Joined: 10/Jun/2005
Mynegeorn- I must commend you on your quick draw translations. Every time i drop by to see if something needs translating you are right there helping someone with what they need. Were I an Admin I tribute you.(hint hint)
Unquello 27/Mar/2006 at 02:04 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 320 Posts: 16 Joined: 22/Jul/2004

Greetings,

I am fairly new to working with Tolkien’s languages.  Currently, I am working on learning Quenya and writing it with Tengwar.  I was wondering if anyone could critique/help a couple of my translations. I was translating a name that meant, "cold brook/stream."  I translated it to Ringanello using a combination of ringa and nell.  Was this a good translation?  Also I am trying to translate "one who mills."  I couldn’t find a word for mill, so I am using combination of the words terhat- "break apart" and or "grain."  What prefix/suffix would I use to finish it to "one who breaks apart grain"?  Thank you very much for the help and have a great day.

Unquello

Induin Gaeron 28/Mar/2006 at 04:39 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1570 Posts: 1364 Joined: 13/Mar/2004

Hi all, I’m thinking of changing my name and I need some help. The name I want is "double star". I searched the Dragon Flame dictionary and it came up with :

double : edaid, tadol
star : el, gil, tinu

Can somone suggest how to combine them and what the best combo would be ? Also, could someone translate it into Quenya so I can choose the better sounding of the two ? (Pretty please...) Thanks a lot!

Elhath 28/Mar/2006 at 05:04 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Unquello, the old Qenya Lexicon which features or (p. 50) also has a verb mul- "to grind" (63), which if attributed to a theoretical root *MUL otherwise nonexistent in the Etymologies might make for an (animate) agental formation like *muldo or *mulindo if adopted to later Quenya (cf. also here).
Magradhaid 28/Mar/2006 at 12:35 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Ninqu Elen: In Sindarin, here are some choices: Eledaid, Giledaid, Eldadol, Tadolel, Gildadol, Tadolil, Tinudadol, Aduil, etc. In Quenya, Atatyli, Atli, Elatw, Tantlen, Atwangill, Tantangill, etc. Quite a mouthful, eh? The two I might go with would be Aduileth or Atli.
Idril 28/Mar/2006 at 02:30 PM
Guardian of Imladris Points: 4676 Posts: 5017 Joined: 03/Jan/2003
Dear all - I need a little help with coming up with a correct Quenya translation of "Mother of the Guild of Bards[Singers]" - I know that "singers" are the Lindar and that Mother is something like "Amill" but have no idea how to put the two together - can someone help me?
Magradhaid 28/Mar/2006 at 06:35 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Idril: Here; there are lots of way to say ’mother’.
Amil Hereno Lindaiva
Amill Hereno Lindaiva
Emil Hereno Lindaiva
Amm Hereno Lindaiva
Fern Leaf 29/Mar/2006 at 10:34 AM
Hasty Ent of Fangorn Points: 2772 Posts: 3303 Joined: 18/May/2004

For translation: This is Tol Galen - the dwelling place of Beren and Luthien. Welcome, my friend. Ever is thy sight a joy.

I would be very grateful if you could translate this for me into Sindarin.

Magradhaid 29/Mar/2006 at 03:28 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Elmavoit: I’ll give it my best shot.

Sen Tol Galen - i mar Beren a Lthien. Mae tollen, mellon nn. Uin lui bain anglennad ln meren.

I’m not sure if _o_ is temporal ’in’, though. I think _ned_ is ’inside’ and _mi_ ’in, located in, between’. Does _uin Echuir_ ’of the Stirring’ mean it can be used in that manner? If not, what would be appropriate?

Any ideas on that one, Elhath or Erma?
Morgan la Fe 31/Mar/2006 at 09:08 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3426 Posts: 2650 Joined: 19/Jun/2004

I’m trying to translate some phrases to be used as names to both Sindarin and Quenya - depending on the existing words. The phrases are:

- wed to the wind - ’bride/wife to the wind’ would do as I haven’t found any verbs like that - bride would be indis/Q  and dis/S I believe
- gone with the wind - I found lend(Q past tense ’go’), wind is sr and vaiwa (Q), also  gwaew and sul (S)
- barefoot on skies - ’sky’ mennel both S and Q, doubt there is ’barefoot’ but anyway

I would be deeply grateful if you could help me to complete it and, if possible, merge them into ’name-shape’, cause that I have no idea how to do. Thanks.

Induin Gaeron 31/Mar/2006 at 07:42 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1570 Posts: 1364 Joined: 13/Mar/2004
Just a quick question : Would Induin Gaeron roughly translate to heart of the ocean ? (I simply put all the individual words together!)
Unquello 01/Apr/2006 at 01:28 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 320 Posts: 16 Joined: 22/Jul/2004

Elhath: Thank you very much.  Would it then be something like Mulorindo or Mulordo  for "one who grinds grain?" Thank you again.

 

Elhath 02/Apr/2006 at 03:58 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Unquello, I would rather put the ori- first (*orimuldo), but your compounds (especially the first one) might make sense to an Elf too.
Star Flower 02/Apr/2006 at 11:29 AM
Elder of Erebor Points: 19230 Posts: 21250 Joined: 28/Jun/2003

Can I have the elvish translation for

"Dear Diary" & the name Arva (this a female name) in Elvish as well. Both words should be in Sindarin pwease! Thank you very much.

Unquello 03/Apr/2006 at 10:43 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 320 Posts: 16 Joined: 22/Jul/2004

Elhath, I’m sorry to ask so many questions, but is there a huge difference between orimuldo and orimulindo?  Would one be preferred over the other or are the suffixes close enough to not really matter? Or is orimulindo not accurate? I’m just really curious for the "right" answer, but I’m learning that there are usually multiple translations that work, and it seems to come down to either personal taste or the most common usage. Anyway, thank you very much for all of the help.

Elhath 03/Apr/2006 at 02:22 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Unquello, I don’t know if much more can be deduced concerning the relations between agental suffixes than what is already laid down in the beforementioned Ardalambion document. -indo and -do both seem to be used to indicate a person doing something, even as a trait of the person rather than "just" as a profession. Etc.
cinearigreener 04/Apr/2006 at 01:53 AM
Labourer of Minas Tirith Points: 123 Posts: 12 Joined: 22/Mar/2006

Who can help me to translate the song ’ heal the world’ into Quenya?

I want only a part of it. Please.

Heal the world
Make it a better place
For you and for me
And the entire human race
There are people dying
If you care enough for the living
Make a better place for you and for me

Thank you. I really want to know how to say ’ better’ and ’ if’.

Reikon Suchi-ru 04/Apr/2006 at 07:54 AM
Interrogator of Mordor Points: 13828 Posts: 13959 Joined: 11/Dec/2002
I would like my name translated into Quenya, Sindarin, and Black Speech, if possible. I know Quenya is limited, so if meanings cannot be found, that’s ok.

First Name: "Just" or "fair-minded"
Middle Name: "little rock"
Last Name: "wildlife preserve" or "game preserve" or something to that effect
Idril 04/Apr/2006 at 05:15 PM
Guardian of Imladris Points: 4676 Posts: 5017 Joined: 03/Jan/2003
Many thanks, Mynegeorn!  That is excellent, and I particularly like Amill Hereno Lindaiva. 
Elhath 05/Apr/2006 at 08:25 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Reikon, in the commonest fandom-developed (Pseudo) Black Speech "little rock" would be gundgaz, or gundsta (if so many consonants can actually go in a row without the appearance of some epenthetic vowel like u/i... Well, it’s a form of Orcish!).

So far I haven’t found a word for "just, fair = righteous, justice-abiding", or even "justice" in any of my Neo-Orcish sources..! Not a too big surprise actually... :P (The Land of Shadows Dictionary has dhuzd but it isn’t indicated whether that is actually the synonym of the adverb "only")

"Animal sanctuary" could be bork(u)+stroh (where the H should be breathed forth audibly). My own PBS word for "safe-being, sanctuary" is lub (regularly "sauronicized" from Eldarin KHOP- > Q hpa).

A collective (if grammatically hazy) fandom Orcish dictionary
Lotrplaza.com’s Mordor Kingdom equivalent
Unquello 05/Apr/2006 at 10:51 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 320 Posts: 16 Joined: 22/Jul/2004

Elhath, thank you again for the help, time, and patience. You are a great help to those who need translation and an asset to these forums. Thanks again.

Aelindis 05/Apr/2006 at 11:04 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Reikon ~ in Sindarin "just", "fair minded" is fael, for "little rock" you could either use sarn ("small stone") or maybe gondeg ( gond "rock", "great stone" + diminutive suffix -eg), though the possible meaning "little great stone" might seem awkward. For "wildlife preserve" a suggestion could be ardh (in) levain "realm/region of (the) animals".

Reikon Suchi-ru 06/Apr/2006 at 07:25 AM
Interrogator of Mordor Points: 13828 Posts: 13959 Joined: 11/Dec/2002
Wow, thank you Aelindis and Elhath for your swift replies! If I’m not mistaken, my entire name in Black Speech would be Dhuzd Gundgaz Borkustroh, and my entire name in Sindarin would be Fael Sarn Ardhlevain? If not, please correct me, as I do not want to go around spouting my name and be wrong, lol. Thank you both for your effort in finding the name - I will soon start studying the languages on my own, and perhaps join your ranks as translators!
Wayfarer 06/Apr/2006 at 10:06 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 831 Posts: 324 Joined: 28/Mar/2005
Hello, I was thinking about the ways to translate ’Wayfarer’ (Note: I am quite unaware of how the Elvish languages work) and I came across this note in the Wayfarer’s Inn (In Minas Tirith forum) The Inn is owned by a wonderful older couple...Alfric ("Alf" for short) and Hildy Trandirs. Their last name means "way-wanderer" in Sindarin. So would Trandirs be a good Sindarin translation? If so, could I please have a tengwar transciption of Trandirs or whatever is the best translation. Thanks in advance for your time and help!
Morgan la Fe 06/Apr/2006 at 11:21 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3426 Posts: 2650 Joined: 19/Jun/2004

I’m sorry to be noisy, but can’t anyone answer to my request above: post from March 31st at 9:08? Thanks again

Elhath 06/Apr/2006 at 05:34 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
~Feowen~:

"Wed to the wind" would be vestaina srinna/vaiwanna in Quenya, as a name maybe Srindis "Windbride" (Sindarin Gwaedhis* and Sldis, the probably shortening but no consonant mutation on d [per Mal-duin]?).

"Gone with the wind" = vanwa srinen/vaiwanen (as a gender-neutral name Srempina, Sremampa [or Vaiwa-]; feminine Sindarin Slvobiel).

"Barefoot on the skies" as a phrase would be held talenten (or talanten) meneld, though an adjective in (the zero-indicator) essive would probably go as well: heldatalya meneld (for "as a bare-footed [one] on the sky").


* cf. Gwaeron; Gwaehir (> Gwaihir)
Morgan la Fe 07/Apr/2006 at 05:04 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3426 Posts: 2650 Joined: 19/Jun/2004
Thank you Elhath very much!!
onlyelephants 07/Apr/2006 at 12:37 PM
New Soul Points: 14 Posts: 16 Joined: 24/Jun/2005

Hi-I was wondering if anyone could translate (sindarin) and write a couple things in tengwar for me please? "lie not with dragons" and Dad, I love you"? I would really appreciate it, thank you!

(I posted this in the wrong place first I think, very sorry)

Lothelanor 08/Apr/2006 at 02:24 AM
Herald of Imladris Points: 328 Posts: 105 Joined: 08/Mar/2003

Dear translators,

 

For an upcoming Award conference I have to speak some introductory words in Sindarin. Therefore Ive translated  a few words. I wondered if any of you experts would be so kind to give it a look, to check whether I made mistakes or perhaps how I could improve it. It would be a great help! Hennaid evyr!

 

Gen suilon, hiril Mxima, ernil Edward, noss a mellyn

I greet you (pl), Princess (Lady) Mxima, Prince Edward, family & friends

Mae govannen, glass nn gen cened.

Well met, it is my joy to see you.

Im Lothelanor, estannen Marieke

I (am) Lothelanor, I am called Marieke

Thel nn: istad en lam edhil, i lam arth

my purpose (was): to have knowledge of the elven tongue, the Noble Tongue

Anirnen heniad i ardhon in edhil / in ngaladhremmin ennorath

I desired to understand the world of the elves / the tree-woven lands of Middle-earth

Si anron egleriad Dingilya ah Assille

Now I desire to glorify Tingilya and Assille

Hennaid evyr, Poverello, istonon nn, noss a mellyn (or do these words lenit here: Boverello.. vellyn?)

Many thanks, Poverello, my teacher, family and friends

Harthon cared mn gen pannatha na lalaith.

I hope our making will fill you with laughter. (we made a video which well show afterwards)

Navaer

Farewell

 

Lots of phrases in it are quite common, but still, Im not quite sure about everything. I didn’t know for example how to address Her Highness Princess Mxima (wife of our Dutch crownprince Willem-Alexander) or Prince Edward, Duke of Essex. I hope some of you could find the time to help me! Thanks in advance!

 

Lothelanor 08/Apr/2006 at 02:30 AM
Herald of Imladris Points: 328 Posts: 105 Joined: 08/Mar/2003
ow, I’m just thinking... perhaps the people I greet in the first sentence should be lenited as well?!
Aranhael 08/Apr/2006 at 03:41 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 993 Posts: 421 Joined: 27/May/2004
@Lothelanor:

Your translations are quite good already, some points:

>Thel nn

Perhaps the gerund theled would be safer, but I don’t regard thel as a mistake.

>i lam arth

arth- is of uncertain origin, perhaps the adapted Quenya prefix arta-. A pure and historical Sindarin word would be arod ’noble’ (<arātā.

>in ngaladhremmin ennorath

Rather i ngalaladhremmin, but adjectives only precede the qualified noun in verse, so a more natural wording would be: in ennorath ’aladhremmin

>Hennaid evyr

Gerunds probably do not form a plural in Sindarin, unlike English; so: hannad ovor

>cared mn

lenited: cared vn

>Navaer

In my opinion, novaer with the optative particle no is more likely, but navaer could pass as Quenya-influenced.

>(or do these words lenit here: Boverello.. vellyn?)
>ow, I’m just thinking... perhaps the people I greet in the first sentence should be lenited as well?!

No, it’s okay. The vocative in Sindarin is always unlenited, see:
Ai na vedui Dnadan ’Hail at last, Westman’ (not *Ndnadan or something); and many other examples
Lothelanor 08/Apr/2006 at 12:46 PM
Herald of Imladris Points: 328 Posts: 105 Joined: 08/Mar/2003
Thanks Aranhael for your comments, I’ll look at the things you pointed out again. Regarding in ngaladhremmin ennorath, this is a variation on a part of a phrase taken from the Kings’ Letter. Since that’s Tolkien-Sindarin, I figgered it would be all right... but perhaps you’re right, I’ll give it another look...
jrmhaldir 10/Apr/2006 at 01:28 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 426 Posts: 144 Joined: 17/Mar/2006

Hello, I have some words that Galadriel sung but i’m having trouble with the translation. If someone would be so kind as to translated this word for word please. I’m only going to ask for a piece at a time do it doesn’t seem liek so much 

Ai! Laurie lantar lassi surinen, yeni unotime ve ramar aldaron!

Thank you, to whoever helps! 

Elhath 10/Apr/2006 at 01:34 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
jrmhaldir, http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/namarie.htm. (scroll down to the "Word-for-word analysis")
jrmhaldir 10/Apr/2006 at 01:34 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 426 Posts: 144 Joined: 17/Mar/2006

I am very sorry if i’m bothering anybody, but i found something that i would like to be translated into english. I would like a word for word translation if that’s possible. the saying comes from frodo when we greets the elves.

Elen sila lumenn omentielvo.

I would very much like to know what this means!

Thank you, to whomever helps me!

Magradhaid 11/Apr/2006 at 03:13 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
jrmhaldir:

"A star is shining upon the hour of our meeting."

elen ’star’ sil- ’to shine’ lme ’time’ -nna ’upon’ omenti ’meeting’ -lva ’our, inclusive’ -o ’of’.
jrmhaldir 12/Apr/2006 at 12:37 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 426 Posts: 144 Joined: 17/Mar/2006
oh, okay, thank you very much for your help. It was driving my insane to not know what it meant.  Thanks!
Melethron 12/Apr/2006 at 03:09 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1837 Posts: 2647 Joined: 18/Feb/2004

In Quenya, please:

"Let them hate, provided they fear."

Magradhaid 12/Apr/2006 at 05:50 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Melethron: Ant lav tvi, ai rucint.
Elhath 13/Apr/2006 at 01:24 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Mynegeorn: I think lav here is redundant, the most grammatically correct and fluent choices for a language like Quenya seeming IMHO to be ant teva/moca, ai rucint (cf. tula! VT43:14) and nai tevint/mocint, ai rucint.
Narfea Daecu 13/Apr/2006 at 01:50 PM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 228 Posts: 90 Joined: 27/Oct/2005

in Sindarin please.

"may the wind under your wings bear you to where the stars never dim."

and if its not to much to ask i would like this in Quenya.

" I sense a growing darkness, draw your swords for evil is nigh."

 

Please and thank you, and sorry if i spelled anything wrong!

Aelindis 13/Apr/2006 at 10:47 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

> "may the wind under your wings bear you to where the stars never dim."
No i ’waew nuin rovail ln *celitha le *ias elenath -’wathrar!
(*celithar < *col- and *ias are reconstructed.)

Radovan 14/Apr/2006 at 04:28 AM
Youth of Imladris Points: 47 Posts: 14 Joined: 09/Apr/2006

Can someone please translate me few next phrases on Elvish:

1)"Use the day, Make your life extrodinary!"

2)"Few of them come, few stay and few of them leave."

                       I’m real fan of Elvish language and sword fighting skills!!!!

Elhath 14/Apr/2006 at 08:05 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Narfea Daecu:

In Quenya: "I sense a growing darkness, draw your swords for evil is nigh."

Tuntany morni lala; etsaca/eccarpa macilelyar, an ulco n har.

*et-saka, *et-karpa are reconstructed (having the root saka- ’draw, pull’, VT43:23 vs. a QL verb from PE14:58 ).
Rhwithiliel 14/Apr/2006 at 09:37 AM
Linguist of Lothlorien Points: 3050 Posts: 6374 Joined: 27/Oct/2002

I would very much like some help in translating a few things...

a) The sentence "all is never truly dark and all is never truly lost" in Sindarin if possible and as close as possible to the original sentence.
b) "sometimes the darkness needs embracing to be shunned away in the end." same as above... SIndarin please if possible.
c) "The House of Gentle Silence" in Sindarin, as close a translation as is possible would be splendid!

Also...
d) What would be the translation of something similar to "she/one who dances with shadows" and "she who lives byher heart"

Thank you so very much in advance to anyone who can help

Narfea Daecu 14/Apr/2006 at 10:34 AM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 228 Posts: 90 Joined: 27/Oct/2005
thank you so much Aelindis!  now i have a form of goodbye for my friends!
Narfea Daecu 14/Apr/2006 at 10:36 AM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 228 Posts: 90 Joined: 27/Oct/2005
and if its not to much to ask i would realy appreciate it if someone could translate " I sense a growing darkness" in sindarin. please an dthank you to whoever helps!
Elhath 15/Apr/2006 at 04:52 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Radovan: here are translation attempts into Sindarin (typical Middle-Earth) Elvish.

1) Iuitho i aur/i galan, caro guil ln chaewen.

(adj. *chaewen containing attested haew "habit, custom"; aur is also "morning" and hence can probably hint "the [whole] day from the morning on", whereas calan is strictly speaking "day, period of actual daylight")

2) Gwanod niben/Gwanod bigen di tl a dartha a gwanna. (rephrased on what is known, literally) "a small (petty) number of them comes and stays and leaves." (if the referred action is not habitual but will only happen sometime in the future, substitute telitha a darthatha a gwannatha)
Aelindis 15/Apr/2006 at 05:54 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Narfea Daecu: "I sense a growing darkness" - Mathon vr anglennol - lit.: "I feel an approaching darkness".

There is a word  "to grow" (galo-), but it seems to refer to the growing of plants. Therefore I would suggest this rewording. (The use of matha- is also a bit doubtful.)

Radovan 15/Apr/2006 at 01:29 PM
Youth of Imladris Points: 47 Posts: 14 Joined: 09/Apr/2006

Thanks for translation Elhath, i really appriciate what you done!!!

Thanks again!

Narfea Daecu 17/Apr/2006 at 02:19 PM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 228 Posts: 90 Joined: 27/Oct/2005

thank you Aelindis!

Narfea Daecu 17/Apr/2006 at 07:25 PM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 228 Posts: 90 Joined: 27/Oct/2005
o.k. so i need silentstar translated in both sindarin and quenya please.
Narfea Daecu 17/Apr/2006 at 07:38 PM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 228 Posts: 90 Joined: 27/Oct/2005
please hurry!
Elhath 18/Apr/2006 at 02:41 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Rhwithiliel, here are my suggestions:

a) "All is never truly dark and all is never truly lost." .... Pan ului na thand morn a pan ului na thand gwanwen.

b) "Sometimes the darkness needs embracing to be shunned away in the end." .... Aelu i vr gwaedathar aen nu pen awartha na vedui. (for lit. *"Sometimes the darkness should be enfolded before one ultimately forsakes [it].")

c) "The House of Gentle Silence" .... Adab e-Dn Velui or Car e-Dn Velui ("gentle" is not known AFAIR, melui is literally "sweet", or "love-ful")

d) What would be the translation of something similar to "she/one who dances with shadows" and "she who lives by her heart" .... As a single name? Daelilthien possibly for one (feminine, "Shadowdancer"), and (the heart thing) Hngoreth (*"Heart-counsel"), or Gurnis (pronounced GOORR-niss).

— — —

Narfea Daecu, "Silentstar" would be S Dingil (i-i < - per Gildis, WJ:234) and Q Quildelen.
Aelindis 18/Apr/2006 at 05:07 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

"Silentstar" might also be Dngil ( > in many compounds), or also Tngil or Tingil (from tn "silent, quiet", cf. Hammond/Scull, Reader’s Companion, p.551)

Elenalkarion 19/Apr/2006 at 11:19 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 683 Posts: 187 Joined: 13/Aug/2005

I was wondering could some one translate "damned one" into quenya. and "black tree of hatred" into sindarin.

thank you.

Aredhriel 20/Apr/2006 at 07:54 AM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2724 Posts: 1593 Joined: 31/May/2005

If someone could help me with this, I’d like to have the following translated into either Quenya or Sindarin:

"Pride of my father"
"Valarous"

Many thanks!

drkcldeyes 21/Apr/2006 at 07:00 PM
Elfling of Lothlorien Points: 55 Posts: 65 Joined: 26/May/2008

Could someone translate Taylor in Elvish?

thank-you very, very much.

Aelindis 22/Apr/2006 at 03:31 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Elenalkarion: (Sindarin) My suggestion for "black tree of hatred" would be Galadh vorn delos ("black tree of loathing").
Elhath 22/Apr/2006 at 01:26 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Elenalkarion: Q for "damned one" could be hranca or hrancaina (final -a > -o, - for masculine and feminine names respectively).


Aredhriel: "Pride" is not known in any language, but one could imaginably form things like Q *orindoss or S *indaeas (with dae "exceedingly", VT45:8 ). If you however intend to say "the apple of sb’s eye", Q harma and S mr can be used for that. "Of my father" is Q atarinyo (or possessive, atarinyava) and in Sindarin expressed with the main word simply followed by (i) adar nn.

I don’t understand "valarous", I take it you meant "valorous"? Use Q astalda "valiant" or hura "vigorous of heart"; S cann, beren "bold, valiant".


drkcldeyes: For "Taylor", the Lapseparma suggests Quenya Ristar, Ristaro, fem. Ristar.
Aranhael 22/Apr/2006 at 02:38 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 993 Posts: 421 Joined: 27/May/2004
>S *indaeas (with dae "exceedingly", VT45:8 )

I don’t think it’s a good idea to use dae as ’exceedingly’ in Sindarin - the entry in VT45:8 was rejected in favour of DAY- > EN dae ’shadow’ and subsequently we also find Daedeloth ’Shadow of Horror’ in the Silmarillion, not ’extreme horror’ as in A&C.
onlyelephants 25/Apr/2006 at 09:08 AM
New Soul Points: 14 Posts: 16 Joined: 24/Jun/2005

Can someone please translate "dad, I love you" and "here be dragons" into sindarin for me? I would really, really appreciate it. Thank you

Elenwen 25/Apr/2006 at 05:58 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Onlyelephants:  Would Quenya suit you? I am not good in Sindarin at all, alas...   Atarinya, melinyel (Literally:   "My father, I love thee").  Loci sinome nar (Literally: dragons in this place are; the first word is read like "loKi"; Tolkien spelled Elvish sound K like C to distinguish it from Dwarven K or some other... which were supposed to be different sounds).  If you want it written in tengwar, ask away...
onlyelephants 25/Apr/2006 at 07:25 PM
New Soul Points: 14 Posts: 16 Joined: 24/Jun/2005

Elenwen, in Quenya is fine, and yes, if you have the time to do the tengwar that would be wonderful as well! I really appreciate it!

 

Faldras 25/Apr/2006 at 11:02 PM
Melkor Points: 11073 Posts: 6600 Joined: 28/Mar/2004
I was wondering what the name Maeghil means. I got it from a name generator, so I’m not expecting it to make sense.
Aredhriel 26/Apr/2006 at 11:52 AM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2724 Posts: 1593 Joined: 31/May/2005

Elhath, sorry for the much delayed response. Thank you so much for those translations! I’m glad there are those we can turn to in the forums that are much more knowledgable in such areas than I!

 

Elenwen 26/Apr/2006 at 04:30 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Onlyelephants:  Here is a tengwar transcription of the phrases you wanted translated.  The first one ends with an exclamation mark, and the second one with a period.  Change it, if you will, in any suitable editor... 

By the way, the stresses (you want to say it, not only write, don’t you?).  "Atarinya, melinyel!" and  "Loci sinome nar."

onlyelephants 26/Apr/2006 at 08:44 PM
New Soul Points: 14 Posts: 16 Joined: 24/Jun/2005
Thank you so much!! I appreciate it
Fuin Elda 27/Apr/2006 at 02:06 PM
Banned Points: 16932 Posts: 12810 Joined: 03/Nov/2003

May I please have this in Quenya?

Imladris Herb Book (or Healers Herb Book if it is easier)

Many thanks in advance

onlyelephants 27/Apr/2006 at 06:37 PM
New Soul Points: 14 Posts: 16 Joined: 24/Jun/2005

Okay, first of all thank you again Elenwen for your help. I was wondering if I could ask for one more phrase translation please? I have one of the words I need but the others I am having trouble with. "In Remembrance of Arnold Beck" Arnold being  Sorontur.

I would appreciate it more then anything if someone can help with this translation as well. It is for some tattoos I am going to get in my dad’s memory.

Thank you

Orien 28/Apr/2006 at 03:17 AM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 304 Posts: 20 Joined: 31/Mar/2006
Hello I was wondering if someone could translate "Friendship" into Tengwar thats would be greatly appreciated
Elenwen 28/Apr/2006 at 04:13 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Fuin Elda: This will be "parma olvaron envinyatalleva" ("healer’s book of plants"--the closest equivalent in non-reconstructed Quenya I could find).  The word "healer" is feminine here (I assumed you wanted it for yourself).  If the healer is male, it will be "parma olvaron envinyatarwa".
Elenwen 28/Apr/2006 at 04:55 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Onlyelephants: You are most welcome!  Here are my ideas concerning the new translation.  

 1)"Beck" is a family name, so it was hard.  In my dictionary (Macmillan English Dictionary), I found that a beck is a small stream (with the note "British English").  If this meaning is OK with you, it will be "celu" or "sir" (you will need to choose which one sounds best to you).  It can sure be left as it is, but  such sound structure does not fit into Quenya phonetic system, so I think it’s better to translate it.

2) The name "Sorontur" literally means "eagle-lord".  I  do not know what name "Arnold" means, so you’ll need to check it for yourself (at www.behindthename.com, for example).  If the meaning is different, please post it here, and I will translate it for you.

As it is, the translation will be "Enyalien Soronturo Celuo or Siro".  I think you will want it written in tengwar; I will do it after we have decided on the points above.  I am taking it that seriously as a tattoo is for life, so I would like you to have it the way you want it and without mistakes. Also, if you have a chance, try to have somebody else check this translation, for the same reasons. If you want it written in some different Quenya font, let me know (I can make it in square letters, which look gothic-like to me, or like the inscription on the One Ring, or any other Quenya font you can find in the Internet-just tell me where it is).

Elenwen 28/Apr/2006 at 05:12 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Orien: Tengwar is not a language, it is an alphabet.  So I cannot "translate it into tengwar" without knowing if you want it in Quenya or Sindarin, or maybe just the English word written with tengwar characters (like on the front page of the LotR, for instance).  I will, however, write the Quenya version for you (as it is the Elvish I like most).  The Quenya for "friendship" is "nilm"  (stressed on the first syllable), and is written as follows:

Fuin Elda 28/Apr/2006 at 06:29 PM
Banned Points: 16932 Posts: 12810 Joined: 03/Nov/2003
Actually.  I was hoping there was a non gender specific version of it.  As it’s for the Rivvy herb book and there are both...
Elenwen 28/Apr/2006 at 06:56 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Fuin Elda:  Well...  That makes it more difficult.  There are two agent suffixes in Quenya (in English corresponding to the suffix -er): -r for masculine and -lle for feminine (as in most real languages that have grammatical gender). In most such languages if the gender is non-specific, the masculine form is used (it was so in English as well, before the introduction of political correctness). So I would say go ahead and use the masculine version: "parma olvaron envinyatarwa"
Fuin Elda 28/Apr/2006 at 07:05 PM
Banned Points: 16932 Posts: 12810 Joined: 03/Nov/2003
All right Many thanks.
avantika 29/Apr/2006 at 07:19 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 836 Posts: 181 Joined: 14/Mar/2006

Could someone please translate into Quenya - "What grace is given to me, let it pass to him" where the meaning of "grace" is not beauty but rather a privilege or something like that.

Also, I’d like to know, what are the various words in Sindarin and Quenya that can be used for "truth", "righteousness" and similar meanings.

Thank you! 

onlyelephants 29/Apr/2006 at 10:01 AM
New Soul Points: 14 Posts: 16 Joined: 24/Jun/2005

Elenwen, thank you again. I found the same meaning with Arnold, so Enyalien Soronturo Siro sounds good to me. You are right, that is why I came to the experts instead of trying to do it myself, I didn’t want to have something tattooed on me that was totally wrong! I like the way the tengwar looked last time, but the style writing on the ring is quite beautiful. If you could write it in that I would really appreciate it.

Thank you for all your time helping me!

 

Elenwen 29/Apr/2006 at 02:56 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Onlyelephants:  It is the nearest to the ring-inscription style I managed to do in a graphic programme.  I would have done better hand-writing it with pen and ink, but unfortunately I don’t own a scanner  to make it available to you.  I think if you take this to the place where you will have your tattoo made (along with the inscription on the One Ring from the book, which can be found in the Fellowship of the Ring, chapter "The Shadow of the Past"), they can make it look like the writing-style I was trying to imitate.  So, that’s what is written here: Enyalien Soronturo Siro (bold letters mark the stresses).

Elenwen 29/Apr/2006 at 03:27 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Avantika:  I could not translate the phrase you wanted the way it is, as  the verb "pass" has the meaning "go away" only in what reliable Quenya wordlist I have. So it will be: "Nai haryuvas i liss ne haryan"--"Be it that he (or she, the pronoun ending is the same for both) will have the grace (lit. sweetness) that I have" (the bold letters denote stresses; the ai in "nai" is a diphthong like in "mice").

As for your second request, I could not find any words in Quenya with such meanings.  Maybe someone else could help you.

Elhath 29/Apr/2006 at 05:49 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Elenwen, note that the second "that" equals the relative pronoun "which" and is not the conjunction "that", and hence should be translated -- here -- with ya rather than ne.

A somewhat common Quenya coinage for "truth" is *anwi. "Righteousness" was likewise a term not introduced by Tolkien in the known Middle-Earth context, and hence if insisted people can get various "results" for it through coinage, e.g. *faili or *trinquass. Likewise, following translations in accord with this one one would get *faelas as the (Neo-)Sindarin word.
avantika 30/Apr/2006 at 12:45 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 836 Posts: 181 Joined: 14/Mar/2006

Elenwen, Elhath, thanks a lot! The phrase is really the same as the original in meaning, so it doesn’t matter at all if it’s not exactly the literal translation.

Thanks a lot once more. I really appreciate the effort you people are putting in over here to handle everybody’s requests, and to give such prompt replies.

Orien 30/Apr/2006 at 10:26 AM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 304 Posts: 20 Joined: 31/Mar/2006
Thank you very much that is a great help to me i can see it will take a bit of practice to get the line thicknesses right, but i will succeed, thanks again
Aredhriel 01/May/2006 at 05:00 AM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2724 Posts: 1593 Joined: 31/May/2005

I am once more in need of some scholarly help! I found all the following words in Sindarin but wasn’t sure of the proper positioning of them (i.e. noun, verb, noun....etc.) and I was also interested in getting the translation in Quenya as well and could not find that dictionary. Here are the following phrases I would like to have translated, (In both Sindarin and Quenya) please:

"House of Twilight" and "House of Love"

Many thanks!

Elenwen 01/May/2006 at 03:00 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Aredhriel:  I can do only the Quenya translation, as I do not know Sindarin well enough.  What did you mean by "house"? If it was "building", then it is translated "coa lomeo" and "coa melmeo" respectively (bold letters mark stresses).  If it was something like "clan", it is "nosse lomeo" and "nosse melmeo". Tthe e’s are certainly read separately from o’s and in the final position as well.
Aredhriel 02/May/2006 at 07:52 AM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2724 Posts: 1593 Joined: 31/May/2005
Elenwen, yes, I meant house as in an actual structure rather than a clan. Sorry I didn’t clarify that well enough. Thanks so much for the Quenya translation of both though. When looking up the translation in the dictionary I got something similar for both but there were variations (such as adab and gobel for house) and  wasn’t sure which usage was appropriate, so thank you! I would still like to know the Sindarin if anyone could find that for me please.
Dan Leach 02/May/2006 at 01:01 PM
Savant of Isengard Points: 632 Posts: 96 Joined: 03/Jun/2004
What would be Sindarin for a grouping or collection of stars (not a constellation)?
Harlindon 02/May/2006 at 03:27 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

 Aredhriel < "House of Twilight and House of love.

I would translate house of twilight as  Adab o aduial / adab aduial and house of love as  Adab velleth / adab o velleth, Aredhriel

Aredhriel 02/May/2006 at 04:26 PM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2724 Posts: 1593 Joined: 31/May/2005
Harlindon, thanks for the translation. It’s greatly appreciated.
Orien 03/May/2006 at 11:50 AM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 304 Posts: 20 Joined: 31/Mar/2006
Hello i was wondering if someone could help me nand translate the following words into Quenya.
Courage,
Patience,
Wisdom,
Charity,
Love
Any help woulod be greatly appreciated
Elenwen 03/May/2006 at 04:38 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Orien:  Courage--"huor" (literally "heart-vigour"); patience--no such word in Tolkien’s Quenya, the nearest equvalent is "voronwi" (lit. endurance); wisdom--"nolw", charity--no exact match, but "as" (lit. kindliness, helpfulness) might do; love--"melm" (with a note "friendly love").  Bold letters denote stresses.  By the way, there is an excellent site--Ardalambion-- on Tolkien’s languages.  It has a very reliable Quenya wordlist among other things (in case you want to look up some other words).
soli.hover 03/May/2006 at 05:25 PM
New Soul Points: 12 Posts: 6 Joined: 15/Apr/2006

I’ve use the name Alatril for a few months,but i still do not know the meaning of this name.

Please help me translate it into English.

I’m a 17-year-old Chinese.My English is poor,so I don’t know how to express myself.

Just thank you very much.

Elenwen 03/May/2006 at 05:56 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Soli.hover:  Alatriel is a Telerin (in case you didn’t read the Silmarillion, Teleri are a kind of Elves) form of the name Galadriel, meaning "maiden crowned with light", which referred to her golden hair.  If you want a name in Elvish that will be just your own, think what meaning you want and post it here; I will help you the best I can. 

And please do not worry about your English.  It is an international site, and there are many people here who are not native speakers of English (I am one, for example). I understood easily what you wrote in your post, so keep on writing, maybe join some kingdom if you want  to

Orien 04/May/2006 at 01:23 PM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 304 Posts: 20 Joined: 31/Mar/2006
Thanks again, i was wondering does the writing of quenya look different from the text if that makes any sense as the word for friendship looked something like an m, a backwards j, and another m but was pronounced nilme.
If it is written differntly could i be horrible and ask you to write those wordsi asked for before:courage
wisdom
patience/endurance
charity
love
if you don’t have time thats cool i was just looking for the elvish writing for a tatoo. Thanks any help would be great
Elenwen 04/May/2006 at 02:58 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Orien:  Quenya words are written with an alphabet called "tengwar" (literally "letters").  It is not a font, like, for example, gothic. I am sure something written in arabic or ciryllic (used in Russian and some other Slavonic languages) alphabet would look just as strange to you!  If you want information on tengwar, look in appendix E to the LotR.  It is not systematic enough to learn how to write correctly in Quenya or Sindarin (I failed when I tried, and had to find some nice charts with explainations somwhere else), but still interesting to read.  If you would like to learn how to write with tengwar, let me know, and I will post some charts and explainations here.

As to your request: here are the words courage--"huor", endurance--"voronwi", wisdom--nolw", helpfulness--"as", and love--"melm", written with tengwar:

Orien 06/May/2006 at 08:37 AM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 304 Posts: 20 Joined: 31/Mar/2006
Thanks very much for all the help. those charts your talking of would be great and really useful. if you could post the charts and explanations it would be fantastic, thanks agian
Elenwen 06/May/2006 at 03:34 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Orien:  Here are charts of tengwar of Quenya spelling (NB: spellings for Sindarin or Westron are completely different: the same letters are used, but they mean different sounds!)

Quenya consonants:

Comments: The letter "su’le" is used for the sound "s" which "historically" used to be "th" (you have to look up if it was so, for example, in Helge Fauskanger’s "Quenya Wordlist" at Ardalambion).  The same is true for the letter "noldo" and initial letter "vilya".  In all other (the most) cases letters "silme", "nu’men" and "vala" are used. The letter "harma" is used to represent the sound "h" in the middle of a word (like in "ohtar"--warrior), "h" in the beginning of a word is represented by the letter "hyarmen".  The letter "anna" with two dots below represents an initial sound "y". There is no difference between "esse" (or "silme") and its "nuquerna" form--which one to use depends on what vowel you write above (regular forms would be used with following "e" or "i".  Letter "halla" is used to represent the voiceless "hl" or "hr" before the respective consonant.

Quenya vowels: They are written above the consonant which they follow.  If there is no preceding consonant, a carrier (see the consonants chart) is used.  Long vowels are represented by doubled signs or a long carrier (if there is no preceding consonant and always for "a" and "i").  Dipthongs (two vowels as one sound, as in English "coin") are written above the letters "yanta"(ai, oi, ui) or "u’re" (au, ou, eu) and thus read before the respective tengwa. All other group of vowels (like "ea") are just written using carriers.

Additional marks: There are two, both written below a consonant: one representing a doubled consonant (like in "pella"--beyond), another one representing a "y" which follows a consonant (like in "Quenya").

Punctuation marks: 

 The sign standing for a period also stands for a semicolon--a "long pause", the sign for a comma also means any "short pause" (perhaps a colon, though I am not sure).

This seems to be all; I will try to post some examples a bit later.  Sadly I do not know of any good Internet source which explains correctly how to write with tengwar, or I would have posted a link rather then writing all this stuff

Orien 07/May/2006 at 04:51 AM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 304 Posts: 20 Joined: 31/Mar/2006
thanks alot again, this will be really helpful to me and if i find a good site/source ill let you know. Ta
Aeoromr 07/May/2006 at 10:53 AM
Venerable of Isengard Points: 4238 Posts: 5704 Joined: 04/May/2003
This is me looking at Elvish and attempting to translate - . They lost me on the many forms of ’it’. So that’s why I need a bit of help. XD If it’s not too much trouble, could I get someone who at least knows something about Quenyan to translate the following quote for me? If so, I would appreciate it greatly!
It is a good person who sees and keeps silent.
Elenwen 07/May/2006 at 02:35 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Ariadne:  I do not know of any pronoun in Quenya which would correspond to the impersonal "it" in your sentence, but there is a "stressed" form of a 3rd person singular pronoun--"enye" (lit.: "even he/she/it"). So I would translate it as follows:  "Ery mra n ye cen ar munta quet."--lit. "He is good that sees and says nothing" (the closest thing I could find to "remain silent"). Hope this will do!
Elenwen 07/May/2006 at 02:43 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Orien:   I have forgotten one really important thing about tengwar consonants for Quenya.  It is when to use "ro’men" and whe "ore" for the sound "r"!  This gave me some trouble when I l was learning.  So, you use the letter "ro’men" at the beginning of words or syllables, and "ore" at the end of words and syllables or before a consonant (and alway for "r" which denotes plural form and in the word "ar"--"and").  Here is an example to clear it up a bit:  in the word "rmar" (wings), the first "r" will be "ro’men", and the last one will be "ore". 
Elenwen 07/May/2006 at 03:38 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Orien:  Here is an example of a Quenya phrase written with tengwar.  It is the first two lines of the poem "Nama’rie" (found in full in the FotR, chapter "Farewell to Lo’rien).  I really hate insering special symbols and pasting them from Word, so I will write long vowels with an apostrophe after them.  So this is what is written here: "Ai! laurie lantar lassi su’rinen, // Ye’ni u’no’time ve ra’mar aldaron!" ("Ah! golden fall leaves in the wind, years countless like the wings of the trees!"--this is not the translation you find in LotR, but a word-for-word one).

It illustrates quite nicely almost all the troubles you may have understanding Quenya version of tengwar.  If you have any questions, just post them here, I’ll try to help.

Thorondel 07/May/2006 at 04:36 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 567 Posts: 274 Joined: 24/Sep/2003

pretty please translate this phrase into elvish (quenya or sindarin, whichever is easier) for me.

It’s okay though, even brick houses fall down.

Thank You!

Elhath 08/May/2006 at 01:17 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
In Neo-Quenya perhaps: la (or va) qura, ambalw coar ataltar yando.

lit. "don’t worry", w/ ?qura- < QL:76/104
The proper plural of coa may go before the partitive one (coali), since one can easily imagine all brick houses like those of ancient Rome indeed ultimately crumbling in the ravages of time.
Aeoromr 08/May/2006 at 01:57 PM
Venerable of Isengard Points: 4238 Posts: 5704 Joined: 04/May/2003
Elenwen! If I only I could be as cool as you. Thank you so much! I greatly appreciate it. Now that you said that I could have used the he/she/it pronoun, I want to kick myself for totally not thinking about that in the first place... XD You rock my world. Thank you again! It was exactly what I needed.
Orien 08/May/2006 at 03:50 PM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 304 Posts: 20 Joined: 31/Mar/2006
Elenwen: thanks yet again for all the help you have given. Its all pretty confusing but i am sure that if i persist i might be able to start understanding and writing soon, thanks again
Thorondel 10/May/2006 at 12:36 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 567 Posts: 274 Joined: 24/Sep/2003
thanks Elhath!
brokenflow 10/May/2006 at 06:42 PM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 2 Joined: 10/May/2006
Hello all! I am here seeking knowledge. Before i ask i want to deeply thank anyone who is kind enough to help me here, THANK YOU!!! I would like to verify translations i have and also verify i am writing this in Quenya correctly. The tengwar tool for some reason fritzes on the tehta...   The phrases (loosely) are:

-Don’t be afraid of death, be afraid of the unlived life.
*va ruce nurullo , ruce culello alacuina

-Know thyself, to thine own self be true
* ista ewelya, Na voronda elyenna

I would apprectiate a pic of what it is in Quenyan ring script. thank you thank you thank you
!!!! -Paul
Elhath 11/May/2006 at 12:46 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
brokenflow: It is good to note if only for curiosity’s sake that Tolkien sometimes ended a verb with the imperative particle in A: VT43:14 has tula ("versus" hyam and maybe men apsen in the prayers in the same issue). **Culello > cuilello.

As of late we have also gotten some authentic paradigm on reflexives where "thyself" would be inty (per VT47:37).
Elenwen 11/May/2006 at 01:58 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Brokenflow & Elhat: 

I think there is something wrong with all the cases in the translation.  "To be afraid of smth" requires Genitive, not Ablative (whose only meaning is "from [somewhere]), as well as "to be true to smb" requires Dative, not Allative (whose meaning is "towards" or "upon").  Thus: "A’va ruce nuruo, a’ ruce cuilo alacuina" and "A’ ista intye, na voronda intyen" (in the latter sentence I have used the familiar form of "thyself", which is quite logical when giving such advice).

Here are these two sentenses written in tengwar (using tehtar):

Elhath 11/May/2006 at 02:43 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Elenwen, in WJ:415 Tolkien wrote: "rukin ’I feel fear or horror’ (constructed with ’from’ of the object feared)" -- hence the original ablative is probably correct. As a sidenote, this is actually also how the verb "to fear" acts in many real-world languages, including Arabic.
soli.hover 12/May/2006 at 07:04 AM
New Soul Points: 12 Posts: 6 Joined: 15/Apr/2006

Thank you very much for your encouragement~~~><

I’ve read the Silmarillion in Chinese(Er...This is a wrong sentence I know),But that isn’t  good,translators were incompact. And that edition is difficult to understand.

Well my name...divided into several expressions,maybe one part is a girl with talent,slender,chaste and undefiled. The other is dazzle,thereupon.

I’ll work harder on my English...

Elenwen 12/May/2006 at 02:23 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Elhat: I agree with your note on the ablative in the phrase "feel fear from", but would like to add the following as a sidenote. In Russian "to fear smth" (transliteration: "boyatsa chego-libo") requires genitive (and that’s what mislead me), and in German it is "Angst vor (dative) haben" in Latin "timeo (accusative)", so I wouldn’t think that  any modern (or classical) language is always a reliable clue. I wonder what case this verb requires in Finnish....

Brokenflow:  Here is a corrected version of your first sentense:

Elenwen 12/May/2006 at 03:14 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Soli.hover:  As far as I know, in Chinese you can put many words together to make a new one.  I have tried to do the same with the Quenya equivalents I found for the meanings of your name.  Unfortunately, there are some words that Tolkien just didn’t "make up", so I have found only the meanings of the first part of your name (and nothing that in any way is similar to "dazzle"):
 1. "talanted" may be viewed as "gifted", the Quenya for "gift" is "anna";
 2."slender" is "nind" or "teren"; due to the peculiarities of Quenya phonology, which allows only a very restricted number of consonant clusters, I prefered the latter in the "all-in-one" name
 3. for "chaste" and "undefiled" we may use the word "vende", which means any woman until marrige (this word is used for "virgin" in Quenya translation of the prayer "Hail Mary").  This word can be reduced to "-wen", a suffix which frequently occurs in feminine names (and which is in my name also).

What can be done with these words is:
1. Put all the stems together:  Anterwen (the bold letter denotes the stress )
2. Make a name of each of the meanings, and choose one you like best:  
  -Anniel ("-iel" is another suffix often used in feminine names); Anwen is also possible, but it looks too much like Arwen, and will inevitably confused with the name of the daughter of Elrond
  -Ninwen or Terenwen

So now it is up to you to choose the name!  If you want it written in tengwar (like in some of my posts above), post your choice here, and I will transcribe it for you.

soli.hover 12/May/2006 at 09:06 PM
New Soul Points: 12 Posts: 6 Joined: 15/Apr/2006

Yes,you’re right,in Chinese one word can denotes many meanings.Based on our culture and customs Chinese native speakers can easily understand the exact meaning of one name,but translated into English can’t be very proper.

I really appreciate your help.In these names I prefer Anterwen(Anwen looks just like it’s short of Anterwen...).But I don’t know how to pronounce it exactly. Can you write its pronunciation on?Please.

I want to see it written in tengwar,thank you~~

Elenwen 13/May/2006 at 02:58 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Soli.hover: 
Quenya words are pronounced practically the way they are spelled, so the name Anterwen will be pronounced

[anterwen].  Anwen isn’t short for Anterwen really, it is the name with one meaning left out ("Gifted Maiden", not "Gifted Slender Maiden").  I think you can change your Plaza name to Anterwen, though it will cost you some points; it’s in your profile somewhere.

And this is how your name is written in tengwar:

 

soli.hover 13/May/2006 at 05:21 PM
New Soul Points: 12 Posts: 6 Joined: 15/Apr/2006

I will change my Plaza name if my points were enough.

Maybe it’s a matter of my computer,it’s not quickly enough to see the picture TAT.But I think one day I’ll see it.(Maybe download the input way of Tengwar~)

Thank you!

Harlindon 14/May/2006 at 02:48 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Cool font Brokenflow, is that Tengwar cursive? It looks like it but seems to be just a little different. Just wondering.
brokenflow 14/May/2006 at 03:13 PM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 2 Joined: 10/May/2006
Yes its tengwar cursive with annatar tehtar. guess i’m partial to the diamond tehtar. quick question, you CAN put tehta (or a consonent doubling tilde) inside of a character like a lambe ( the one that looks like a T), right?

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2175/tatfear4gm.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7271/know1id.jpg

anyone see anything out of place? THANKS! -Brokenflow
Harlindon 14/May/2006 at 03:26 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

>brokenflow Can you put a tehta inside lambe?

I’m pretty sure you can; at least in Dan Smith’s fonts you can.EXAMPLE-jL

Aelindis 15/May/2006 at 04:00 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Quote: Originally posted by Elenwen on Friday, May 12, 2006

Soli.hover:   1. "talanted" may be viewed as "gifted", the Quenya for "gift" is "anna";
 2."slender" is "nind" or "teren"; due to the peculiarities of Quenya phonology, which allows only a very restricted number of consonant clusters, I prefered the latter in the "all-in-one" name
 3. for "chaste" and "undefiled" we may use the word "vende", which means any woman until marrige (this word is used for "virgin" in Quenya translation of the prayer "Hail Mary").  This word can be reduced to "-wen", a suffix which frequently occurs in feminine names (and which is in my name also).

What can be done with these words is:
1. Put all the stems together:  Anterwen (the bold letter denotes the stress )


I highly doubt whether the name **Anterwen will be interpretable according to the intended meaning "gifted slender maiden", unless a ’note on translation’ is attached.

1. anna means "gift", not "gifted".
2. an- is the intensifying prefix "very" or "most".
3. ter is not identical to teren.

 

Elenwen 15/May/2006 at 09:08 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Aelindis: The name in question can be interpreted, relying on stems (and they are all there,if you have a look in your dictionary).

1. yes, I know that "anna" means gift, but as I said, it is a stem. (AS->*an-)
2.   In the Sindarin name "Melian", the original Sindarin for gift-- "antha", is contracted to "-an", so such a thing is possible (regardless the fact that in Sindarin there is a separate word "an", meaning "towards".)
3. not identical but definetely related and thus it possible to restore the original word by its stem.  (TER)

If you translate the name according to all the rules, it wolud be "Vende teren ye harya anna" (a slender maiden that has a gift).  Would you like to be called in such a way? I wouldn’t. 

If you can think on any better way to translate Soli.hover’s name, please post it here.  I would dearly like to see what you come up with. 

Aelindis 15/May/2006 at 11:43 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

1. The stem from which Q. anna "gift" is derived would be ANA- (1), cf. Etym:348.
What are you trying to say by:  "it is a stem (AS->*an-)"  ??

2.  The name Melian is said to come "from Melyanna ’dear gift’, cf. the Silmarillion appendix.
The Noldorin and probably also Sindarin words for "gift" would be  ant and ann, cf. Etym. and  ’Addenda & Corrigenda’.
In Sindarin compounds final consonant clusters are often shortened, cf. Ran < _r_+_ann_.

But I was under the impression that you wanted to create a Quenya name.
Examples like Annatar (with fully written anna ) or on the other hand Ancalimon  (where an- is the intensifying prefix) would make Anterwen rather doubtful.

3. The stem TER-, TERES- ’pierce’ would yield Q tereva ’fine, acute’, tere, ter ’through’, teren ’slender’, terra ’fine pierced hole’, cf. Etym. and A&C.
I fail to see how the "original word" would become apparent from ’Anterwen’.
In any case, Tolkien’s Terendul is formed quite differently.

Though I cannot think of any way to create a Quenya name with the meaning "gifted slender maiden", I am still convinced that  ’Anterwen’ is not comprehensible. 


 

Elenwen 15/May/2006 at 12:59 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Aelindis:  This debate is in no way helpful or creative.  The main point is that Soli.hover likes her name and its meaning.  Whenever she asks for some other name, I will try to help her.  I did my best to create that name, and I do not see how all this helps the girl to get a good name.  You don’t like the name, but I do, and she does, too.  It is always easy to say you dislike something (even be it for good reasons), but it is much harder to think of a better solution.  You have not convinced me that I am absolutely wrong, I have not convinced you that I am right, but we may each have our own opinion.

As for your arguments, I took the word "antha" for "gift" from Hisweloke Sindarin dictionary.  An the name "Melian" does show that contracting a word to form a part of a name is possible, whatever were the source words.

I do not wish to continue this argument with you.  Soli.hover, if she reads this, will decide for herself whether to keep this name or not; she will have read two different opinions and make her own desision.

Aelindis 15/May/2006 at 07:44 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

> This debate is in no way helpful or creative.  The main point is that Soli.hover likes her name and its meaning. 

The debate might be very helpful indeed, in case Soli.hover was not aware of the dubiousness of the name ’Anterwen’ until now. She may like the sound of the name, but as hopefully became clear, its intended meaning  "gifted slender maiden" would not be discernible.  

>  I did my best to create that name, and I do not see how all this helps the girl to get a good name. 

The point is that  ’Anterwen’ does not seem to be a good name, provided that its meaning is of any importance. 

> You dont like the name, but I do, and she does, too. It is always easy to say you dislike something (even be it for good reasons), but it is much harder to think of a better solution. 

This is not about "like" or "dislike", but about reasoning based on Tolkien’s works.
Even if I cannot come up with a Q. name meaning "gifted slender maiden", I would not call  ’Anterwen’ a "solution". The reasons can be gathered from my previous post.

>You have not convinced me that I am absolutely wrong, I have not convinced you that I am right, but we may each have our own opinion.

I gave reasons, including references and attested examples, for my opinion. If you find them unconvincing, I invite you to come up with counter-arguments.

> As for your arguments, I took the word "antha" for "gift" from Hisweloke Sindarin dictionary.  An the name "Melian" does show that contracting a word to form a part of a name is possible, whatever were the source words.

It beats me why ’Melian’ would be an argument in favour of your opinion, in view of the fact that its Q. form is Melyanna as already mentioned.

> I do not wish to continue this argument with you.  Soli.hover, if she reads this, will decide for herself whether to keep this name or not; she will have read two different opinions and make her own desision.

I certainly do not object to Soli.hover’s decision whatever it may be.

 


Maewen 15/May/2006 at 11:04 PM
Youth of Imladris Points: 299 Posts: 246 Joined: 25/Nov/2003
Elenwen: I may be wrong but you seem to be offended just because someone uses attested examples to show you your translation is not quite correct. Do you really think Aelindis struggles to find arguments because she dislikes the name and she just wants to annoy you? What’s wrong about a discussion on Elvish? That’s what this forum is for, is it not?

On the matter of "gifted slender maiden":

>>> If you translate the name according to all the rules, it wolud be "Vende teren ye harya anna" (a slender maiden that has a gift). Would you like to be called in such a way? I wouldn’t. <<<

One wouldn’t even translate the phrase like this, because harya anna does indicate that she "possesses a gift" which is quite different from "gifted".

But finally you point out the problem: "gifted slender maiden" is indeed too long for representing the whole meaning in a single word. Moreover we do not have an attested example for "gifted", so I’d simplify the whole phrase to "slender gift", Nindianna or something like this.
soli.hover 20/May/2006 at 07:41 AM
New Soul Points: 12 Posts: 6 Joined: 15/Apr/2006

I’m sorry to make you an argument,if it hurts your amity.(Maybe I’ve used a wrong word,but i do not know now,my knowledge of English is not enough.)

I do not know it exactly because of the culture of my country.And I haven’t learnt any bit about elvish.(Well,I think I can do that when I go to college^ _^)So how to decide is quite difficult,even understand your posts is hard for me.

I really appreciate your help.If the meaning is too long,I can change one.solitary,bamboo (This is a family name that is vanished in our country,written in Chinese is’ 孤竹’ (Guzhu)and its archaic meaning is a country lay on the land of China.)

Is this OK? If not,you can overlook the meaning of solitary.Thanks!

Talinor 20/May/2006 at 09:04 AM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 565 Posts: 250 Joined: 09/Apr/2003

 I only know a very little sindarin elvish and am attempting to learn more. um...as strange and dorky as this seems I am trying to learn some elvish phrases to be spoken to horses. As odd as it seems with the little elvish i know I find they often times respond better to the softer tones of the language then to english. 

So, maybe if some of these phrases could be translated into Sindarin for me? I came here because I want to make sure it’s done right and I know you people are the best .

Be at peace

well done

all is well

go easy

wait for me (or for my command)

stay there

No, we are not done yet. (as in done with a task)

It’s time to work.

You are a good horse.

Let’s go.

be still

He/she/it  is good and will not harm you.

Be nice.

Do as you are told.

You are being difficult.

Run.

Walk.

trot

slow down

stop.

Stop! (stongest imperitive)

Jump

Head up (or pull your head up)

turn right

turn left

 Pay attention

rear up

back up

ignore that,it, them.

Move/ go

I am your friend

i will not hurt you.

Thank you immensly for help with my silliness.

Harlindon 21/May/2006 at 05:34 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Talinor:I would translate theses as-
Be at peace-No na sdh
Well done-Carnen vae or caro vae(unsure about past tense of car- seen it a couple different ways sorry)
All is well-Mae no bnt
Go easy-Bado u-echuir
Wait for me-Dartho anim/enni
Stay there-Dartho ennas
No we are not done yet-Baw, si u-vethed
It’s time to work-Si lu mudo.
You are a good horse-Le no roch vaer!
Let’s go-Badatham (we will go)
Be still-Dartho
It is good and wont harm you-No vae ah u-charnatham.
Be nice-No vaeren!
Do as I say-Caro be pedin!
You are being difficult-Le no darias
Run-Noro/yri
Walk-Pado
Trot-Unsure
Slow down--unsure
Stop-Daro/dartho
Stop!-Daro!
Jump-Labo(hop)
Head up-Am Dl
Go right-Bado fuir
Go left-Bado crom/grom(does this trigger lenition? I think it does)
Pay attention-Lasto anim/enni(lit.listen to me)
Rear up-Am tele
Back up-Bado adel(go behind sorry about this cant find a better word.)
Ignore that-U-geno na ennas(dont look/see at there)
Go-bado
I am your friend-Non vellon ln (suggestion-I will be your friend-Nathron vellon ln)
I will not hurt you-u-charthathon le

P.S.- I dont think it’s that silly! Aragorn does it in the LotR movies. I think its kinda iteresting and I admire your courage of asking even though you felt it was silly. I hope this helps!

Elenwen 22/May/2006 at 02:55 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Soli.hover:  Unfortunately, there is no such word as "bamboo" in Quenya.  Maybe, it didn’t grow in Middle-earth at all.  If I may substitute "plant" for "bamboo" (quite vague, but it’s the nearest match), we could make it Erdolva ("erda" being "solitary" and "olva"--"plant").  This is pronouced  [er’dolva].  Or if you think of any  better meaning you want, just post it here, I will try to translate it.
Harlindon 22/May/2006 at 06:53 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Talinor: For ’I am your friend’ your could also have Im vellon ln.
Findecno Sralond 24/May/2006 at 05:18 AM
Herald of Imladris Points: 225 Posts: 34 Joined: 24/May/2006

Elen sla lmenn’ omentielvo,

Hi, i was wondering if it wouldn’t be too much trouble if you could please translate;

The coming of the sun.

Into Quenyan.

Thanks

Namarie

Elenwen 24/May/2006 at 06:31 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
QuenyaKing:  This may be translated (quite word-for--word, which is, from my experience, quite seldom possible, because of the lack of many so-necessary words that the Elves, apparantly, had no use for at all ) "i tulie Anaro" (the com-ing Sun-of).  In the examples of original Quenya phrases I have seen, "the Sun" is used without a definite article, for some reason.
kparker_007 24/May/2006 at 11:16 PM
New Soul Points: 8 Posts: 4 Joined: 24/May/2006
Hi I’m looking for a unique way to have some of my family member’s names tattooed on me. I spent a bunch of time studying the language in order to do this life changing permanent thing on my body. The names I would like translated in Quenya SCRIPT are Jordan (I realize there is no J on the language so I substituted the name for its derivative "Yarden") The second name is Skyler and the third is Lisa. Attached is a link to what i’ve come up with. Hopefully it is correct. Any response to it would be most helpful. Thanks a lot for your time and effort. - Kyle

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/scrtdesire113/QuenyaNames.jpg
Elenwen 25/May/2006 at 07:08 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Kyle:  There is no such thing as "Quenya script".  There is "tengwar", the Elvish alphabet, which can be applied to Quenya, Sindarin, or Common Tongue (which in LotR is represented by English).  This can also be written in two modes:  with tehtar (signs for vowels written above consonants, the one which you used) or full (vowels are written like consonants; example of it is the inscription above the gates of Moria--see LotR, Fellowship of the Ring, chapter "A Journey in the Dark").

For your request, I used the Common-Tongue mode (in which the meaning of tengwar is completely different from that in the Quenya-tengwar table I posted above). In this mode vowels are written above the consonant which follows them (unlike Quenya mode). There are many differences in how to transliterate English words in tengwar (see front page of any Tolkien’s book).  So my best guess is this:

Findecno Sralond 27/May/2006 at 03:24 AM
Herald of Imladris Points: 225 Posts: 34 Joined: 24/May/2006

Mae govannen, mellon!

Thank you Elenwen, for your help in translating the coming of the sun.

Your help was much appreciated.

Tenn’ enomentielva.

soli.hover 27/May/2006 at 09:09 AM
New Soul Points: 12 Posts: 6 Joined: 15/Apr/2006

Elenwen:Maybe I make you working in vain,sorry...

I go to school 6 days a week(from the evening of Sunday to the the next saturday afternoon) and cannot go home during the days,so I can’t reply you in time,educational system problem of my country.I’m sorry.

Solitary Plant is too strange I think.Solitary,hover(or fly) is also OK,and that is the origin of my Plaza name now ^_^  If it’s also difficult to find a name,I will choose Anterwen~~Thanks a lot.

Lindir of Lindon 27/May/2006 at 12:20 PM
Banned Points: 824 Posts: 453 Joined: 12/May/2006

I would be most grateful if someone who knows Sindarin language would check these elven names for me and perhaps put the accent marks. The names are: Finlothlin (it should mean- White flower song), Beleglas (Great joy), Calenfaronion (Green hunter’s son), Melveril (Dear rose), Annunvir (Western jewel). Thanks!

Harlindon 27/May/2006 at 04:55 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Garai: For white flower song, do you mean a song about a white flower(as in the song of the white flower) or white flower song as a name? For song of the white flower I would translate to Lind e nimloth.  For the other meaning, I would translate just as you did but would change Finlothlin to Nimlothlin as I don’t believe that Fin means white.(correct me if I’m wrong but I’m almost positive)
~For Great Joy I belive you translated correctly (beleg+glas {g in glas is lost  because of lenition}.)
~For Green hunter’s son  I would rather use Faronion Galen because adjectives usually come after whatever they modify.(This would mean hunter’s son that is green however) If you mean son of the Green hunter you could use in ef faron galen. However I suppose your translation could work to.(It just seems a bit long and Quenya looking )
~For Dear rose I would use Merilvuin.(because adjectives come after their modifiers in most cases)
~For Western jewel I would use Mrdhn for the same reason as above(mr+dn which becomes dhn when lenited) Though I understood your translation Annunvr.

Hope I helped-9]7j`2h6

 

ryansbeautiful1: For I love you- Melon le
For I miss you-Anron le h (I desire you here)
For welcome-Mae tollen
For one love-mn velleth
For all my heart-Pnt gr nin

The elves of middle earth spoke Sindarin, as well as the elves of beleriand. Sindarin isn’t spoken in real life by any culture or country.

Harlindon 27/May/2006 at 05:01 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Talinor:

Quote: Originally posted by Harlindon on Sunday, May 21, 2006


Be at peace-No na sdh
You are being difficult-Le no darias


These should be No na hdh and le no dharias because lenition istriggered by na and darias is a complement to no.
Sorry about the discrepancy

Aelindis 27/May/2006 at 11:59 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Harlindon:  Within compounds the adjective is very often in front postition, cf. Nimloth, Calenhad, Belegurth, Annminas etc.
In the Etymologies this is the second most numerous group of compounds, cf. Thorstens article.

 

Elhath 28/May/2006 at 01:16 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Furthermore, dn comes from NDU and not **DU -- hence it’s lenited form would be nn. But indeed as the compounding evidence suggests, perhaps Annmir would be the way to go.
Harlindon 28/May/2006 at 07:41 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Sorry I overlooked that....
Lindir of Lindon 28/May/2006 at 12:06 PM
Banned Points: 824 Posts: 453 Joined: 12/May/2006
Thanks Harlindon, but I still have some questions. In Imladris forum, in Newbie hall thread there is a list with some Sindarin roots and "fain" or "fin" stands for "white". Yes I was using White flower song as a name. For green hunter’s son I was referring to son of the Green hunter, as a name, so I would like it to be one word if possible. For Dear rose I was using words "mel" (dear) and "meril" (rose), how come it’s Merilvuin then? You said you understood Annunvir, so can I keep it the way it is, or is that wrong? Sorry I’m bothering you so much, but I would like the names to really mean something in Sindarin. Thanks again.
Celebhen 28/May/2006 at 01:19 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 396 Posts: 45 Joined: 14/Dec/2005

OK, I’d like some help and if this is the place to get it... =)

First of all I’d like to have the name "Glrhen" correcly translated; I’m really not sure about the and which way it’s supposed to be at. I came up with it some years ago and used only a list of words I’d found on the internet, so it may be waaay out there. I meant it to mean something like "golden eye", and it’s in Sindarin if I’m not mistaken.

Next is I’d like "grain of gold" to be translated and brought to a name, both male and female and both in Quenya and Sindarin.

Anyone out there who can help me with this?

Harlindon 28/May/2006 at 04:10 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Garai: I was unaware at the time that I did your translation of Thorsten Renk’s essay "Compounds in the Noldorin Etymologies" which states that within compounds the adjective is very often in front postition inthe compound. This would mean that your translation Calenfaronion is very acceptable as well as Melveril / Muinveril. For Melveril / Muinveril, I just used another word for ’dear’(muin); not noticing that you had used mell in your version of the word.(your translation Melveril is fine) You are correct in stating that fain means white although I haven’t had a chance to check the Imladris newbie thread you were talking about for confirmation on fin which I thought to have meant ’hair/a single tress of hair’. Therefore Nimlothlin or Fainlothlin are both acceptable and Finlothlin may be as well.(I’ll check on that) As for Annnvr, Elhath has suggested Annmir as a translation. So if we sum all that up you get-Fainlothlin/Nimlothlin,   Beleglas,   Calenfaronion,   Melveril,   and   Annmir.

Garai - My deepest apologies for giving you incorrect translations! I am sooooo sorry and will be sure to be much more careful when making future translations. It actually turned out that most of yoru tranlslations were correct in the first place so congratulations on good translations! I will try to be more aware of such essays for use in the future. By the way, if you have a PC and want to make accents, try this link-LINK

Once again my deepest regrets for giving you the wrong information-9]7j`2h6

 

Aelindis and Elhath:AelindisThank you very much for helping me by pointing out Thorsten’s essay. Your help is greatly appreciated. Elhath thank you for suggesting a translation for Western jewel.

Lindir of Lindon 29/May/2006 at 10:13 AM
Banned Points: 824 Posts: 453 Joined: 12/May/2006
Harlindon, no need to apologize. I’m very grateful for your, and others (Aelindis, Elhath) help. Thank you for all your effort. The link you gave me is also very helpful.
Celebhen 29/May/2006 at 03:21 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 396 Posts: 45 Joined: 14/Dec/2005
Well, I came up with some more questions... What does -findell at the end of a name mean? And is there a word for "fruit" in Sindarin? Ive been looking but I can’t find it. =/
Harlindon 29/May/2006 at 06:11 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Celebhen, will attempt to answer your questions.
1) Yes, Glrhen means golden eye. It is Sindarin and your accent is correct.
2) I only know Sindarin and I believe it could be glriawion for masculine (glren+iaw+ion [anyone with a better masculine suffix?]) and glriawiel (glren+iaw+iel) These are pronounced- glr’yow’eeon and glr’yow’ee’el
I’m am not a quenya guru so I can’t help you there.(too many suffixes and prefixes  )No offense intended to quenya speakers)

3) For "what does findell mean at the end of a name, I assume that you are inquiring abour the name Glorfindel? If you aren’t I am going to use this as an example to explain the meaning. The name Glorfindel can be broken up into these parts- glor+find+el (I believe, although I have been wrong about such things before)
Glor =golden   find = hair/lock of hair/tress  el = elf   Therefore we come up with ’golden haried elf’ So to answer your question, findel at the end of a word would mean *blankety blank* haired elf
4)A sindarin word for fruit could be iav (root-JAB) Once again, however, I could be wrong. Maybe something like ivon? open to suggestions~

Hope this helps,9]7j`2h6

P.S. To all- I am very open to criticism of my translations so feel free to suggest an alternative or point out my mistakes. In fact please do point out such things, as Aelindis and Elhath have done in the above posts, it helps not only to get a better tranlsation; it helps pool together ideas and disuss the Elven languages(and others) seriously

Celebhen 30/May/2006 at 10:04 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 396 Posts: 45 Joined: 14/Dec/2005

Harlindon>>

Thank you so much! Your help has been most wealcome - my character Glrhen is having a baby. ;P Oh, and about the "-findel"-part; it’s gonna be so much fun to tell my friend that she’s been calling her character "the hairy elf"..! *mowahahahahaha* She came up with it when she was fourteen and didn’t use any wordlist, only imagination, so well.

Thanks again!

Now, ’anyone a Quenya-freak?

Harlindon 30/May/2006 at 12:26 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Celebhen: It doesn’t neccessarily mean a hairy elf! It just means that that persons hair is very interesting or beautiful in some way. Some very famous names have the element in them- Fingolfin, Fingon, Finrod, Finarfin, Finglas, and possibly, Finduilas.(very popular among the Noldor ) So don’t make fun of your friend  too badly.
Arvellas 30/May/2006 at 03:11 PM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5462 Posts: 3016 Joined: 16/May/2006
If it is not too much to ask, I would like this translated into Sindarin, please: "Wherever the long road may lead you, may you always find your way back."
Harlindon 30/May/2006 at 06:07 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Arvellas: Wherever the long road may lead you, may you always find your way back. I would tranlslate-
Man mn-and togatha le, harthon radathachui  i vn dhan. (lit.Where road-long will lead you, I hope you will find ever the road back)

Glossary- mn-and(mn + and)     radathachui(radathach + ui )     dhan(here used as back not but amd lenited)

Hope I helped-9]7j`2h6

Celebhen 31/May/2006 at 11:20 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 396 Posts: 45 Joined: 14/Dec/2005

Harlindon>>

Yes, of course, I understand, but the thing is; her characters is named "Sanfindel", and I’ve understood that "san" menas "it", so...yes, she’s acctually been calling her baby "the hairy elf"! *rofl* But there’s no panic, she’ll love him just the same.

Now that I’ve got you on the thread, sort of speak, I’ve got some more questions (they’ll never stop!): as with my other name-related questions this is about my beloved character Glrhen having a baby (I’m gonna be a daddy! Mommy...or...well, parent!), and we don’t know if it’s gonna be a boy or a girl, so I’m really out looking for names for both genders. My question about "fruit"(iav!) has to do with that too; I’m thinking of names like "love child" or, in this case, "fruit of love".

The first one mentioned I’ve figured should be "Melethn" (love = meleth, child = hn); is that right? My real question is about the "fruit of love". In what order should the words be? In Swedish I should simply put it like "melethiav", being "lovefruit" and having the exact same meaning as "fruit of love", but in English it gets a tiny different meaning to it, and being Tolkiens own language I thought I’d take that into consideration. Right? 

Arvellas 31/May/2006 at 04:14 PM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5462 Posts: 3016 Joined: 16/May/2006
Thanks muchly, Harlidon!
Harlindon 31/May/2006 at 05:20 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Celebhen: I am not sure about Melethn (I am very sorry). I know that when th follows s it becomes t (expl. Gos+thir+Gostir) and th remains unchanged after other consonants(ec+thelion=ecthelion) but I am not sure about it the other way around.

For fruit of love, I beleive your compound is correct. Usually, sindarin adjectives come after their modifyers but in compunds the adjective usually comes first.(pointed out by Aelindis). Therefore I believe Melethiav would be correct. However, I could be wrong. (nothing is completely concrete) Pronounced- Meleth’ ee’ av’

Celebhen: If you are an elf(or your child is an elf) post so and I can give you some traditions on the naming of Eldarin children. If you have the book Morgoth’s Ring however, you can probably read about it yourself in the section Eldarin Laws and Customs.

Hope I helped-9]7j`2h6

Aelindis 01/Jun/2006 at 01:24 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Harlindon: Just a few observations (and questions): How did you reconstruct *iav  "fruit" (with wordfinal  -v  )? As far as I know iau (from YAB- ) means "corn".  
findel / finnel  seems to mean "braided hair", cf. Etym:387.
I’m not sure why you believe that man would mean "wherever" (?)
*radathachui: I do not know any example where an adverb is attached to a verb after the pronominal ending.
*dhan: I do not think that a preposition would be lenited, and BTW, it seems to come fom NDAN- .

Celebhen: IMHO "Sanfindel" would (maybe) mean "It-(braided)hair".


 


 

Harlindon 01/Jun/2006 at 04:26 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Aelindis: For the reconstruction of iav from YAB I was kind of grasping at straws.(not owning a copy of the etymologies myself; I used David Salo’s A gateway to Sindarin for the root, working on getting a copy.) So my apologies for that. Any suggestions?
You are right about iau. I am not a very good translator.
For man I was trying to imply ’where the path may lead you’ and since I don’t know of a word for ’where’ and man is interrogative, I deemed it the best way to go. Do you know of a better word?
For radathachui,  should be ui-radathach( as in uilos?) or something along those lines? What would you suggest?
For dhan now that I think about it you are correct.

Aelindis: I must seem a little annoying asking you all these questions! I am sort of intermidiate  with Sindarin and not a master like yourself. Therefore I am using this thread to practice and become better with it and to learn things like those you have pointed out. I find it really helpful and have already learned tons about the language that I didn’t know! So thank you for pointing all these things out for me!   I just find this very helpful because its more hands on than other threads about Sindarin so it appeals to me more. (And sadly, Thorstens house isn’t supported anymore and no one posts in the Pennas Belain project.) If this is agrivating I’ll try to look over my translations very carefully before posting.

Aelindis 02/Jun/2006 at 07:45 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Harlindon: I am by no means at all a master of Sindarin! Just have a look at my posts in the past, and you will spot numerous errors, big and small, which were either corrected or went unnoticed by other members (maybe out of charity).
As Sindarin is my hobby an exchange of ideas can hardly ever be annoying, all the more so since the questioners in this translation thread scarcely seem to scrutinize the translations and suggestions given to them. 

Regarding "fruit" (especially in this context  "fruit of love" ), I’m sorry to say that I don’t have any suggestions.
A literal translation of  "Where the long road may lead you.." seems very doubtful to me. My result is clumsy and very "Neo-Sindarin": *Na man sad i ven and togatha le... - "To what place the long road will lead you...". 
Yes, I would rather say *ui-radathach, or maybe, regarding the whole sentence, I would rather just use the imperative: *ui-rado, cf. the use of the imperative in the Ae Adar and elsewhere.

Cheers!

Harlindon 02/Jun/2006 at 07:48 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Thank you for the support! Good thinking with ui-rado! The Ae Adar does use simply the imperative! so I agree that that would be the way to go. Much better way to say ’Where the road...’

To all that I have done translations for- It would be a good idea to look over the above posts for corrections or suggestions to your translations!
9]7j`2h6

Morgan la Fe 03/Jun/2006 at 01:06 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3426 Posts: 2650 Joined: 19/Jun/2004

Hello, here I come to you again, still no time to learn myself:

If you’d be so kind to help me make the phrase ’The House of Rainbows’ and ’Feowen of the House of Rainbows’ in sindarin. So far I’ve found ninniach and eiliant for rainbow. My scarce knowledge tells me plural might be something like ninniaich and eiliaint, but I’ve really no idea what to do with the i before a.

Thank you so much for your help.

Celebhen 03/Jun/2006 at 04:19 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 396 Posts: 45 Joined: 14/Dec/2005

Harlindon>>

OK, so the whole "metehn"-thing isn’t sure, even though I don’t really get why (I’m really not that good in languages, including English ;P ), but you’re kinda convinced about the "melethiav"? Great! Thank you. =)

And yes, the baby’s going to be an elven one and if you’ve got something interesting to say about the naming-tradition of  Eldarin children - shoot! =) But, well, that book you mentioned isn’t really anything I’d have in my bookshelves. *gulp* See, I’m one of THOSE. *takes cover* I haven’t even read the trilogy and even less the Silmarillion or anything else of the sort. I did read Bilbo, though. *remembers* And I -started- reading about the Ring, but I just...simply...couldn’t stand the boredome! It takes ages..! He just goes on and on and on and ooon about the 41 billion shades of green in the tree they have in their garden...! *ooops*
So, well....no, I don’t have it. *smiiiiles* But thank you for the advice. I’ll look it up! Some day.. *wink*

Aelindis>>

"Braided hair", you say? Like "the braid"? Or "the braided hair"? It just doesn’t make any sence to add "it" to "braid" or "hair", does it? I mean, wouldn’t it automaticly turn into "the"?

Aelindis 03/Jun/2006 at 04:34 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

It seems to me that the plural of ninniach would be ninniaich, quite regularly.

On the other hand, I don’t quite understand why DF lists eiliant as "rainbow". In Etym. it appears as N eilianw (LR:400), eilian(w) (LR:360), and in A&C as E(i)lian(w) (VT45:17). In Sindarin those would probably become eilian(u) or  elian(u).
The plurals of eilianu / elianu could either be *eilieinu / *elieinu ( considering the archaic -w ) or form plurals by anology with other words, maybe *eiliainy / *eliainy.
Or, if we assume that the final -w  was dropped, singular eilian / elian would probably become *eiliain / *eliain in the plural.
I would really appreciate it to hear other opinions on this topic.

Feowen Srindis: Regarding "house"; do you mean "house, building" or "house, family" ?

 

Aelindis 03/Jun/2006 at 05:29 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Celebhen: What I wanted to say is: The name >Sanfindel< does not make much sense to me.

findel means "(braided) hair", and that is what Tolkien said in Etym:387, as already mentioned. Obviously  "braided" is the past participle of  "to braid" = "to do (the hair) by interweaving three or more strands" (Merriam-Webster OnLine).

N ha, hana is glossed as "it" in the Etymologies. If you believe that *san would be "it" in Sindarin, the intended meaning of this name appears to be *It-(braided) hair
Why should the personal pronoun "it" turn automatically into "the" ? If you whish to form a name with the meaning >The (braided) hair<, you should simply use the definite article. 

Feowen Srindis and all:
I just noticed an error in my previous post: The plurals formed by analogy should be *eilieny / *elieny of course! Sorry for the inconvenience!

Morgan la Fe 03/Jun/2006 at 07:14 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3426 Posts: 2650 Joined: 19/Jun/2004

Aelindis~ First off, I meant house as a family. Then, I looked this forms at Hisweloke sindarin dictionnary, and they did indeed mention eilianw in parantheses as well as eilian. They say iant means bridge as well as ianu (ianw)... Also, I just noticed they differ Sindarin and Noldorin forms, defining ninniach as Sindarin. Therefore, I’d like to stick with sindarin.

Would ’house, family’ be herth? ’Of the’ must be uin, right? Oh well I won’t be able to get it all together correct anyway, could you please help me further? Thanks.

Harlindon 03/Jun/2006 at 08:41 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Celebhen: The naming of eldarin children was extremely important to the elves. They had many customs and traditions that  were stictly followed.
1. Right after birth, it was the father’s right to give the child a name. This father name often incorporated an element of the fathers name, so as to show that the child was of a certain family. Example- Finwe named Feanor Curufinwe. The father name was announced at a special ceremony, in which the family and kin of the child or special friends of the family was present. This name was first and foremost, and could not be altered by the child, regardless if they received other names later in their life.
2. The second name of the child was the Chosen name. This name was chosen by the elf him/herself when they had full understanding of the elvish language and had developed a love for speech. This was usually around age seven for elves. (They knew how to speak around one but didn’t have a full understanding and love for the language required to give themself a special name.) The father name and chosen name were ’true names’ not nicknames. The father name was public but the chosen name was private.(but not secret) It was considered ’property’ of the elf and couldn’t be used by other unless given permission. (an elf couldn’t give himself another elf’s chosen name without permission.)
     There were other names of the elves, called added names.
3.
Of these the mother name was first and foremost. It was given by the mother(ironic) and had special meaning to the recipient. It often gave insight to the elf’s future, as mothers had very acute instincts into their children and their futures. It also may describe a dominant feature that the child will have in later life. (Feanor’s name Feanor was given to him by his mother, who could tell that he would have a fiery spirit.) These names were greatly respected and were sometimes given right after the father name. If this were so the name would be public.
4. Lastly, there were ’given names’ which were given by others to the elf. For example, if an elf was new to a community and had, say, a black sword. (like turin except he wasn’t an elf) The community might call him Mormegil which means ’black sword’. These names could be given by anyone even if the Elf didn’t know he had been given a name. For example if an elf was a great traveler, he may be named Daerandir in places he visited, but after continuing on his travels, he wouldn’t know that people called him that. Permission was not needed for this name as it was simpy a nickname.(not in the sense that it was a shortening of any of the elf’s other names. As in a completely new name.)

Hope this helps-9]7j`2h6

 

Aelindis 03/Jun/2006 at 09:25 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Feowen:  herth means "household, troop under a hr ". There is also nost / nos(s)  "house, family", cf. the example Nos Finrod  "House of Finrod" (Ety:378). You can take your pick.

You could put the words together like this: Feowen uin nos / herth (in)*eliain (or maybe another word for "rainbows" that seems better to you) = "Feowen of the house (of ) rainbows". ( in would be the plural article denoting the genitive which may be omitted, cf. the examle.
If you use ninniaich, it would be  nos / herth ninniaich, but with article nos / herth i ninniaich.  


 

Ravni Alarion 03/Jun/2006 at 09:53 AM
Miner of Mordor Points: 748 Posts: 732 Joined: 05/Apr/2006
I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to say something romantic in the language of rohan. I have been with a Rohirrim for a while and though it would be nice to be able to say a few words of her language to make the rp more interesting. Can anyome helpme with this?
Morgan la Fe 03/Jun/2006 at 10:09 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3426 Posts: 2650 Joined: 19/Jun/2004

Aelindis, thank you very much! One last confused bit - is it eiliain/eliain or eilieinu/elieinu after all? Or even eilieny? Sorry for the trouble.

Harlindon 03/Jun/2006 at 10:40 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
For the above post, I used the HoME book Morgoth’s Ring. (just giving credit to source)
Aelindis 03/Jun/2006 at 11:10 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Feowen: As I have tried to explain, several slightly different forms of this word are mentioned in the Etymologies. Furthermore, the S plural of words ending in -u  (from former -w ) may come out differently.
But the attested N forms eilian(w) / E(i)lian(w) seem to indicate that the -w  might have been facultative.
So I would suggest that you choose either eilian or elian and form the plural regularly: eiliain or eliain.
 
Morgan la Fe 03/Jun/2006 at 11:42 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3426 Posts: 2650 Joined: 19/Jun/2004

Thank you for the explanation and patience Aelindis.

Celebhen 03/Jun/2006 at 01:38 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 396 Posts: 45 Joined: 14/Dec/2005

Aelindis>>

Oh well, she came up with the name many years ago, back when the Tolkien-fanatics was about a handful of RPG:ers (yes, it is an ironical joke. =P ), so doesn’t come as a surprise that it has no true meaning. =) Thanks anyway!

Harlindon>>

OMG! And here I thought a baptism was over the edge... *lol* So you think I should think of THREE names to give this baby? Oh man... *s* Well, tehre are alot of beautiful ones to chose from or put together. Thank you very much for your time! Even though I am a savage whom haven’t read the books.

Mistaken 03/Jun/2006 at 04:45 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1406 Posts: 3061 Joined: 25/Aug/2004
This is a kind of random sounding request, but if someone could help me by translating ’Mistaken,’ ’Ice’ & ’One who shines’ into Tengwar, & that last into Sindarin as well,  that would be very helpful/awesome. Thanks for your time.  :)
Harlindon 03/Jun/2006 at 05:54 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Celebhen: Your welcome! You don’t have to if you don’t really want to. It’s just a couple traditions, and names were important to the eldar.

 

Erutulcon Alarion 03/Jun/2006 at 08:46 PM
Stablemaster of the Mark Points: 1036 Posts: 519 Joined: 29/May/2006
Can you translate the name Gabriel in every language possible? or as most languages as you can please? it would be a much help...
Morgan la Fe 04/Jun/2006 at 01:56 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 3426 Posts: 2650 Joined: 19/Jun/2004

Mistaken, tengwar is not a language, is a system of writing, or more commmonly a font. You can download it for your computer here, or transcribe any words you want on an online transcriber here. I’ll leave the Sindarin translation to someone more experienced, though. (Red-marked are links)

Neneru, this site (link!) is very helpful for translating names into Quenya. And as far as I know, there’s only two languages developed enough to translate anything, and that’s Quenya and Sindarin.

Aelindis 04/Jun/2006 at 04:42 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Nereru: It seems that your new name is already an attempt to translate ’Gabriel’ into Quenya.  
Maybe the elements should be compounded the other way round as Eruner. I have also seen Erutulcon and Erupoldon (Quenya) as well as several Sindarin "translations", e.g. Thalioneru etc. on CoE.

The problem is that many Hebrew names, like ’Gabriel’, include the word "god" which is mostly translated as Eru. Within Tolkien’s legendarium Eru is certainly the word for "god", "the One", but it is also stated that this name was "reserved for the most solemn occasions" (WJ:402). As far as I know Tolkien did not create any personal names with this word. Therefore such "translations" seem to have a un-Tolkienian and un-elvish appearance.

Mistaken: A literal translation of  "one who shines" would be pen i hla.

Crenshinibon 04/Jun/2006 at 01:16 PM
Banned Points: 193 Posts: 52 Joined: 28/Oct/2004
Can someone please translate "gift " in  sindarin or quenya or both pretty please
Harlindon 04/Jun/2006 at 06:20 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Berethor Erech: I would translate gift as- Sindarin- ant and Quenya- anna  I don’t know Quenya but that is what is said in Ardalambion’s wordlist. If you need a translation for a word like this again, you should try looking at Dragon Flame and Ardalambions word list. (Links at top post.) It would be much quicker, as you wouldn’t have to wait for someone to write a post for you (I’m not saying not  to ask for translations in this forum, just try the links as they are faster and accurate.) Feel free to ask anytime though!

Erutulcon Alarion 05/Jun/2006 at 03:49 AM
Stablemaster of the Mark Points: 1036 Posts: 519 Joined: 29/May/2006
thanks you sooooooo much aelindis
Mistaken 05/Jun/2006 at 08:20 AM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1406 Posts: 3061 Joined: 25/Aug/2004
It seems I am aptly named, Feowen,  & thanks, I will check out those links.
Also thank you, Aelindis.
Aelindis 06/Jun/2006 at 12:52 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Harlindon: I have seen your translation (Pennas Belain). If you are still interested in debating it, I would like to post a few comments there, though without much doubt nobody will appear in order to correct our ideas or to make  further proposals.

Harlindon 06/Jun/2006 at 05:00 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

*dances around after making the 300th post*

Aelindis: Yes, I’m still interested if you are. It would be great if we could get more people back into that because as I was reading it, I found the discussions to be very in depth and interesting.

To all others interested in or learned in Sindarin, you are welcome to join the Pennas Belain discussion! The more the merrier! In fact, it would be appreciated if you did!>>>>Link<<<<

Ista Sharrasi 07/Jun/2006 at 03:14 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003

Hello! I am back yet again for more translations!

I’d like to know if I can get the word Adelandeyo (May the Gods go with you) written in tengwar. I am seeing if it looks good for a possible tattoo idea.

I also have a poem that I would like translated into both Sindarin and Quenya. I will be performin this poem as a song for an audition, an they requested that I sing 2 songs - one of my own making and one given to me by a friend of mine. So, this is my choice, but it just doesn’t sound right in english - I’d like to try it in both elvish languages (and possibly rohirric and or celtic, if anyone knows those) to see if they fit it better. Thank you all very much for helping me on these two items, and your help won’t be forgotten!

Im alone when the sun sets
When everyone is gone
The hills are silent
The animals quiet
When the moon comes from behind a cloud
Lighting a lantern in the colors of the sun
When the sun sets.

 

Later Im alone
When the birds sing to the dawn
And the sky fills with light
Glowing golden heaven from the sky
And the world holds its breath at the beauty
Of the far-off sun

 

Im alone
When the sun rises high
And I hide my eyes from the glare
The light can be too strong
But the beauty never dims
And as the sun sets again
The world darkens, becomes a friend
But the beauty never dies,
It never changes.
It never changes.

Harlindon 07/Jun/2006 at 03:58 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Ista Sharrasi: Hello my fellow Lothlorien elf! I would be glad to help you. First off - What mode would you like Adelandeyo written in? (Mode of Beleriand, Quenya mode, Sindarin Mode?) You also may want to have someone learned in Quenya(if it is indeed Quenya) check it to to make sure it’s correct. When you get back to me on that I will have it written for you as soon as possible.

As for your poem, it is very long so it may take a while. I’ll try to get it done as soon as possible, but if I can’t, I’ll get it done over the weekend. I hope this isn’t too long of a wait though. When is your performance? If you give me a deadline I’ll try to get it in by then.  By the way, if you didn’t know already, my translation will be in Sindarin.

Ista Sharrasi 07/Jun/2006 at 04:08 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Harlindon, much thanks! I’d like Adelandeyo done in all three if that is possible, for that will give me more of a broad base to choose from. As for the poem, take as much time as you need - I truely do not need it until around September, but I prefer to do a lot of my learning much earlier then actually needed so that I may get it done right. Plus, I still need to choose which language to sing it in, listen to someone fluent in it sing it, and decide *g* So take your time, enjoy working on it, and I’ll check in once a day or so to see when you and the others have finished.
Harlindon 07/Jun/2006 at 06:27 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Ista Sharrasi: Ok, that makes me much more relaxed! *g*
Here is Adelandeyo in a few different fonts-

Adelandeyo

]2lj]2plih

2#jR2#`Fi~U

]2lj]2plih

2#jR2#`Fi~U

]2lj]2plih

2#jR2#`Fi~U

Adelandeyo
Top to Bottom- Hobbiton Brush Hand, Tengwar annatar (second two) in the Mode of Beleriand and Sindarin Mode, Tengwar Noldor (three and four) Mode of Beleriand and Sindarin Mode, Tengwar Teleri (Five and Six) Mode of Beleriand and Sindarin Mode.  I’ll try to get that poem translated as soon as possible.
I hope this helps-9]7j`2h6

 

 

Ista Sharrasi 07/Jun/2006 at 06:46 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Um... Harlindon? Am I supposed to be seeing lots of letter sequences that are all the same thing in different sized fonts? Because that is what I am seeing... o.O;;
Harlindon 07/Jun/2006 at 07:22 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

OH NO! You can’t see the tengwar! I’m sorry. I wrote this in tengwar and pasted it but it just ended up looking like a bunch of random numbers to you doesn’t it! I’m soooooo sorry Ista. I don’t really know how to fix it too. I was hoping this wouldn’t happen. It appeared on my computer though so I don’t know if its because fo you or because of me. I wish I could get it to you domehow.

Aelindis 07/Jun/2006 at 09:26 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Ista Sharrasi: What language is Adelandeyo (May the Gods be with you) ?
Obviously it is neither Quenya nor Sindarin. Thus it would not be written in a Quenya or Sindarin mode.

Ista Sharrasi 07/Jun/2006 at 11:04 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Honestly, I do not know what base language it is from, though I do know the language it is spoken in is called Cahuenga. It is from a book series that I am reading called Darkover, by Marion Zimmer Bradley. Of all the words, I found that one to be the most compelling in her stories, and so I use it now.
Ravni Alarion 08/Jun/2006 at 08:57 PM
Miner of Mordor Points: 748 Posts: 732 Joined: 05/Apr/2006
Can someone translate this into elvish for me
"Felena, you are my light and my soul. You complete me in ways i nver knew possible. I love you."
Alcarohtar Rimbecno 09/Jun/2006 at 01:48 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 733 Posts: 108 Joined: 12/Feb/2004

Elen sla lumenn ’omentielvo
I was wondering, could anyone translate the word visitor into the noble tongue of Quenya?
I am learning the language myself now, but I have not progressed much. I use the course which can be found at Ardalambion. Could you also recommend some other courses?

Thanks

Ista Sharrasi 09/Jun/2006 at 11:32 AM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Harlindon, I just had an idea... what if you took a screen shot of those fonts and give me the link to the uploaded picture? I could then see the fonts, and decide on which one that I’d like!
Magradhaid 09/Jun/2006 at 06:14 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Ista:


Ravni: I’ll give you it in Quenya: Felena, calmanya a fanya le n. Quantalyen tnen sinten voro enger. Le melin.


Alcarohtar: Sorry, I couldn’t find ’visitor’ or ’guest’ or such in the Quenya wordlists I have. As for another Quenya course, there’s Quetin i Lambe Eldaiva at Parma Tyelpelassiva, Thorsten Renk’s site. He has lots of in-depth articles on interesting things and some poetry, too.
Harlindon 09/Jun/2006 at 07:37 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Thank you Tyrhael!!! Nice idea Ista but Tyrhael beat me to it
Harlindon 09/Jun/2006 at 07:38 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Working on Poem Ista...
Harlindon 10/Jun/2006 at 08:27 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Ista: heres how Id translate the first part of your poem.

 

Im alone when the sun sets Im eriol na thinnol anor.
When everyone is gone - ab-bannen bnt

The hills are silent i emyn dn
The animals quiet i levain dn

 

 

When the moon comes from behind a cloud ir ithil tl uin fain
Lighting a lantern in the colors of the sun  - slol galar be i anor
When the sun sets Na thinnol anor

 

 

 

Glossary: Ab-bannen (ab + bannen) bnt   after-gone all
                ir ithil (from the poem Ir ithil ammen eruchin ) tl uin fain ( fain = plural of fn)

Slol galar be i anor (This was tricky. I used- Shining (with white light) lamps like the sun. Dont know of a word for colors and Hisweloke doesnt list anything either.)

 

Literally this all says:
I’m alone at sunset.
after gone all.
the hills silent,
the animals silent.

The moon comes from the clouds,
shining(with white light) lamps/lanterns like the sun
At sunset

This is a very nice poem! Do you need the way things are pronounced as well?
 
Hope this helps-9]7j`2h6

Magradhaid 10/Jun/2006 at 12:11 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Ack! I had typed a pretty long post but my circuit breaker went, so I’ll try to summarize it.

Harlindon: Nice job; I’m working on a Quenya version. As for your tricky line, I’d try Narthol galar na phl Anor, "Kindling a lamp with the colors of the Sun". #pl is a construction from qile ’color’ out of the Qenya Lexicon.

A few tips though: Anor ’Sun’ is a proper noun in Elvish so it doesn’t need an article and should be capitalized. Secondly, dn is ’silence’; dnen is ’silent’. Other than that,
Magradhaid 10/Jun/2006 at 12:58 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
By the way, I assume you got dn from Lthien’s song as well? This is my attempt at trying to understand it. It’s a fairly literal translation; only some of the word order has been modified to try and guess at the second line.

When the Moon for us Children of Eru
is shining having gazed as a jewel in the heavens
now flower and tree, hear silence!
O Lord of the West having kindled the stars,
to thee I sing, even I, Tinviel!
Harlindon 10/Jun/2006 at 02:24 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Tyrhael: Nice catch on din. Dnen is a the word we’re looking for here. Thank you for the construction of ’color’. I can’t make heads or tails of Quenya so I’m oblivious to such things.Narthol is a much better word too! I don’t know how I overlooked the verb for ’kindling’ when I did this!  For Luthien’s song, I interpretted dn as an adverb(now tree and flower listen silent/silently)but your interpretation makes a much more sense. I never quite understood why he(Tolkien) would used dn for silent, but I guess he never really did in the first place and I just interpretted wrongly. Just one question. Why does #pl = phl in this sentence? Does it undergo nasal mutation or something for a reason I am either unaware of or can’t seem to put my finger on right now? Because I always though na triggered soft mutation. There is probably a very obvious answer to this question; I just can’t seem to see it right now.

~I didn’t know that about the word Anor. You learn something new everyday!
~I understand about writing a huge long post and then having to type it all over again. This had happened to me more than once; except I usually give up and don’t write the post again, so I complement your will power

Magradhaid 10/Jun/2006 at 04:06 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Harlindon ... it was because I didn’t use na, but nan. The line reads ’the colors of the Sun’, so I decided to put the article in.
Harlindon 10/Jun/2006 at 08:51 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Oh, that makes much more sense now. For some reason, it says na on my computer though. Or do you mean you meant nan and it was a type-out? It doesn’t really matter though. Thanks for clearing that up.

Alcarohtar Rimbecno 11/Jun/2006 at 09:06 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 733 Posts: 108 Joined: 12/Feb/2004
Thanks anyway, Tyrhael. I didn’t find it in any wordlist , so I thought you’d know.
Magradhaid 11/Jun/2006 at 09:43 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Harlindon: Forgive me, it should be nan bl. I thought that because of the -n nan triggered nasal mutation when in fact it should produce what Ardalambion calls ’mixed mutation’.
Harlindon 11/Jun/2006 at 05:27 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Tyrhael: Yes, you’re right Tyrhael. Mixed mutation does occur after nan (na+in). Mixed mutation only occurs after en and prepostitions combined with the article in, right? (Just wondering/making sure I’m correct about this)

Ista: Yay! You get my first translation as a thirteen year-old!

I would translate the second part:

Later Im alone ab-hen Im eriol
When the birds sing to the dawn -  i filig linno nan minuial
And the sky fills with light ah i ell pathro na galad
Glowing golden heaven from the sky glriel uin ell
And the world holds its breath at the beauty i amar garo thl r nan nad vain.
Of the far-off sun uin Anor chaered.

 

 

 

 Literally: After this, Im alone
the birds sing to the dawn.
and the sky fills with light
shining with golden light from the sky.
the world holds breath its at the thing beautiful
of the sun far away.

 

Glossary: Ab-hen(ab + sen which should be lenited I believe) Im eriol

i filig (plural of fileg) linno nan minuial
ah i ell pathro na galad (pathro=fill)
glriel
(can this be used as a a verb?) uin ell
i amar garo thl

r (its) nan nad vain (lenited form of bain)
uin Anor chaered (lenited form of haered)

 

Can anyone think of a better way to put the 5th and 4th lines? My translation seems kinda fuzzy there.

 

9]7j`2h6

Harlindon 11/Jun/2006 at 05:30 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Oops. I don’t know why one of my lines showed up like that when I posted. It should read:
i amar garo thl r (its) nan nad vain (lenited form of bain) and:
uin Anor chaered (lenited form of haered)

Ista Sharrasi 11/Jun/2006 at 07:28 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003

I am learning lots of new things every time I look in here *g* Please let me know when you have completed the translations and edits! I thank you all heartily for the work put into this! And if possible Harlindon, when you are done, if you could include by any chance the pronunciations as well, that too would help me greatly!

Tyrhael, thank you much! The first two are perfect for what I am working on ^^ I believe the second is the one I will use for my phoenix.  Thanks!

Harlindon 12/Jun/2006 at 11:40 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Ista: I’ll be sure to write a post at the end including everything (edited and everything) for you with pronounciation.
Magradhaid 12/Jun/2006 at 06:48 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Harlindon: You need to conjugate linno, pathro, and garo; just using the infinitive doesn’t cut it. Also, where do you get ell? Yes, there is a stem 3EL- in the Etymologies which produces Quenya hell and Old Noldorin elle, both meaning sky, but it notes that in Noldorin and Telerin *3ell is confused with ’star’, a derivative of EL-. If anything, ell is a Sindarin prefix meaning ’elf’!

Sorry for being a nag.
Harlindon 13/Jun/2006 at 11:51 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Tyrhael: Sorry about not conjugating the verbs. I kinda got carried away and started applying English grammar to Sindarin. So you are suggesting linna, pathra, and gr instead right?
As for ell, I was aware that its stem(and the word itsself) could be confused with star/elf but put it anyways for a lack of a better word to use(I figured something was better than nothing). Do you have a better word to use? Perhaps something like Luinrond  or a compound along those lines?
EamaneTaralom 13/Jun/2006 at 01:49 PM
Herald of Imladris Points: 329 Posts: 292 Joined: 03/Jun/2006

Um, hello everyone. I was wondering ( I hope someone hasn’t already asked this) if there are any Elvish swearwords? Or don’t elves swear? (I hope people won’t think I like to go around swearing all the time but I was just wondering.)

Magradhaid 13/Jun/2006 at 04:04 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Harlindon: linnar and pathra, but gr cannot be used as in this sentence ’hold’ does not mean to have in ones hands but ’pause’ or ’stop’. So maybe dr? As for sky, Menel is attested although it means ’heaven’ as well. For notice, Menel doesn’t need an article as it’s a proper noun, but if it had something in front of it requiring lenition I doubt it would occur anyway (i.e. vi Menel from Ae Adar instead of **mi Venel.

Eamane: Technically swear words could be constructed from copulative and scatological entries within the corpus, but I don’t think Elves swore; it’s out of character. They did utter orro or horro in Quenya, which was an interjection ’ugh!, ow!, alas!’; those covered pain, disgust, and horror.
Nolarfini 14/Jun/2006 at 09:33 AM
Savant of Isengard Points: 557 Posts: 218 Joined: 11/Jun/2006
hello...could you guys please gimme the translation of "wise and cunning" in Sindarin. thanx
Celebrin 14/Jun/2006 at 10:04 AM
Linguist of Lothlorien Points: 3138 Posts: 7326 Joined: 20/May/2005
"goll" is adj. "wise" and "coru" is adj. "cunning" Hope it is what you were looking for!
Nolarfini 14/Jun/2006 at 10:28 AM
Savant of Isengard Points: 557 Posts: 218 Joined: 11/Jun/2006
thanx Nolo
Celebrin 15/Jun/2006 at 06:49 AM
Linguist of Lothlorien Points: 3138 Posts: 7326 Joined: 20/May/2005
Harlindon 15/Jun/2006 at 02:13 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Tyrhael: Thanks. I I took things too word for word, forgetting the second meaning of hold had its own word in Sindarin. Menel is a good word to use.

Ista: Here’s how I would do the last part:

Im alone Im eriol
When the sun rises high Anor or-eria
And I hide my eyes from the glare ah hn nn dholen uin galad veleg.
The light can be too strong i galad no veleg
But the beauty never dims dan i naid vain -wathrar.
And as the sun sets again Ah Anor ad-thinna.
The world darkens, becomes a friend i amarth vr, presta hennui na mellon.
But the beauty never dies dan i naid vain -wanna
It never changes -  -bresta.
It never changes - -bresta.

 

 

Glossary: dan I naid (plural of nad) vain -wathrar (lenited form of gwathrar)
                i amarth vr, presta (The way Salo uses it; used here not as affect but as change)hennui (lenited form of sennui) mellon.

                -bresta (lenited form of presta)

 

EamaneTaralom 15/Jun/2006 at 02:52 PM
Herald of Imladris Points: 329 Posts: 292 Joined: 03/Jun/2006
Suilad Penath! Ahem, sorry about that last question. ~embarressed smile~  (Now for the serious question.)Anyways, I was wondering if you please could translate " sighs on the wind " into Sindarin for me. Also, I was wondering how you would say "grey wolf " in both Quenya and Sindarin. Thanks.
Celebhen 15/Jun/2006 at 03:57 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 396 Posts: 45 Joined: 14/Dec/2005

Hi again! I’m back, with an other question! This is accually not regarding name-translations, but the hunt for a nice site.
It’s like this; I’ve got this LOVELY translator-thingy for drow language (http://grey-company.org/Maerdyn/resources/translator/) and I’d really LOVE having something simular helping me with my elvish. =P

Yes, I know neither Quenya nor Sindarin are as developed as Drow, but anything is better than nothing. =)

Thanks!

orodwen 16/Jun/2006 at 03:21 AM
Child of the Mark Points: 33 Posts: 6 Joined: 16/Jun/2006
well, i know this must sound really stupid... but can anyonetell me the difference between Quenya and Sindarin? i know... ridiculous isn’t it? 
Alca Alasse 16/Jun/2006 at 05:18 AM
Forester of Lothlorien Points: 145 Posts: 137 Joined: 18/Sep/2005
I was planning to sign a LOTR embroidery i’m making by taking the words from the moria gate, exchanging my name with Narvi. I’ve tried transcribing the original text into tengwar. Could someone please check this for me and/or advise me if i’m wrong before i put needle and thread through the fabric. Thank you in advance, i’’m very greatful for any assistance.


Celebrin 16/Jun/2006 at 10:10 AM
Linguist of Lothlorien Points: 3138 Posts: 7326 Joined: 20/May/2005

orodwen - Quenya in the language spoken by the elves of the undying lands, and the Noldor in Middle-earth. Sindarin is the language spoken by the elves of Middle-earth and the Edain also at times. They are slightly similar but each has evolved differently, and words have changed through the long years. Hope it helps you!

Alca - Sorry, I can’t help! I don’t know that much.

Harlindon 17/Jun/2006 at 07:49 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Celebhen: There is a sindarin translator site->>LINK<< I don’t know about Quenya though... You may want to download it to avoid crashing the server on that site.

Eamane Taralom: In Sindarin-
Sighs on the wind - Thuil or-sl
Grey Wolf - draug vithren (As two words) or Thindhraug (As one word, I’m not too sure about this)

Alca: I would love to help you but my tengwar font doesn’t show up in the forums sometimes. If this is just a bunch of random numbers and letters, I’m sorry and I can’t do anything about it.(Don’t have photobucket) Here goes-

Mode of Beleriand: `y 6]7r` 9]6 ld]61
Sindarin Mode:6T 6D7r`T 9]6 `Rd6D1



 

Alca Alasse 18/Jun/2006 at 03:15 PM
Forester of Lothlorien Points: 145 Posts: 137 Joined: 18/Sep/2005
thanks anyway Nolofinw Celebrin and Harlindon.
I think i’m wrong on the echant, i accidently missed the a out.
Ista Sharrasi 18/Jun/2006 at 04:33 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003

Harlindon, I don’t want to overload you with my requests or anything, but could I also get the following translated please? I need them for my trip to the TRF over halloween weekend ^^

"Thank you, my Lord, for allowing me the honor of being a part of your court." and "Thank you, my Lord, for this honor."

Harlindon 18/Jun/2006 at 05:29 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Ista: Don’t worry about overloading with requests! I find doing such translations enjoyable and they help me learn things about the language as I go along. I find it  interesting to try and do hands on translations instead of  just reading through books etc. (Not that reading books and courses is a bad thing at all! In fact it is a very good thing! I am just saying I think that practicing helps a lot.) So feel free to ask any time!

I would translate this as:

 

"Thank you, my Lord, for allowing me the honor of being a part of your court." - Hannon le, aran nn, an annad anim i ann o erthad na adab ln.

  and "Thank you, my Lord, for this honor."  -  Hannon le, aran nn, an ant hen.

Literally I thank you, lord my, for giving to me the gift of uniting with house your
                -  I thank you, lord my, for gift this.
Not as literally: Thank you, my lord, for giving me the gift of uniting with your house.
                          Thank you, my lord, for this gift.             

Glossary: Hannon le (could be any form of thanks such as Rim hennaid etc. I just chose this one)aran nn
 an annad anim i ant ( I dont know of a word for honor in Sindarin) o erthad (I figured that uniting with would seem better than being a part of because the verb to be is irregular and I dont want to state something that may be wrong about it)  na adab ln. ( I wasnt exactly sure of what you meant by this. I think that you mean court in the medieval sort of way but wasnt sure what to translate it to (because I dont know of a word for court in Sindarin)  Therefore I simply put house. (here not used as the building, although it could be.) There are words for: courtyard family castle and dwelling place though. If you can find another word besides court, I may be able to come up with something

Hannon le, aran nn, an ant(could also have used ann but it sounded a bit weird. I figured that ant sounded better since youre not saying ann ann I used ant  in the first part as well just to be consistant with this second one) hen(lenited form of sen)       

Alca: Yes, you are right about echant being slightly incorrect. Nice job catching your own mistake It should be spelled with the letter for ’ch’ not the two letters ’c’ and ’h’ combined. Also - In my Tengwar Sindarin example,(even though you may not be able to read it) I used the wrong letter for ’n’. I used the Mode of Beleriand ’n’ instead of the Sindarin Mode ’n’!

*has a brilliant idea* To see my Tengwar, you could copy and past in Microsoft word or something like that. After you copy and past, highlight the numbers and letters and change the font to Tengwar Sindarin(if you have it, which I’m assuming you do since you used it in you post). Then you should be able to see it!  It might no look exactly the same as mine because I used Tengwar Annatar in my above post but it is exactly the same as Tengwar Sindarin, it just looks a little different and I just think it looks cooler. If you don’t have Tengwar Sindarin etc. you can download it for free right HERE. You can also find info about writing with it on that site.

By the way, welcome to Lothlorien!

Ista Sharrasi 18/Jun/2006 at 07:12 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
It would be court as in the mideival sense - The Goblins are a highly revered group wherever they go, and I am lucky enough to become a part of their "family" in a off-hand sense of the word. They have the King, Queen, Scribe, Jester, Bowyer, Elf-friends, Lords, etc. And I may soon be bringing Ista to full-life.
I’ve already got a fine dagger that the Goblin King is finishing (I can’t wait to see it!) and it will be, in a way, matching the elvish armour I hope to get made as well. Not too long after that (providing I still have money) I’ll be getting a matching sword and maybe another dagger. Ista will be complete! I don’t know exactly how I’ll be fitting in, that’s why the phrases are so general - Because when I first met them, it was me as a gypsy, but they’ve gotten to know the elf as well... Eep! lol dilemma’s! If you can think of anything better, let me know!
Elenwen 19/Jun/2006 at 05:35 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Alca: Sindarin mode of tengwar is quite different from its Quenya mode; one difference is that the tehta for a vowel is written above the consonant which comes after it (not before, as in your inscription), and the other is a different meaning of tengwar. Taking this into account, I think this will look in the following way (with your name instead that of Narvi):


Im Alca hain echant

All the consonants are the same as in the gate inscription; the "tilde" above the last "t’ means a nasal (i.e. the "n").  If you (or anyone else) wish, I will post the whole table of the Sindarin mode of tengwar (as I have done for the Quenya mode), along with some comments; just ask.  There are some explainations on this subject in the Appendix E to the LotR.

Harlindon 19/Jun/2006 at 07:59 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Ista: Ok, that helps a lot. I hope you bring Ista to life! I heard you were getting your armor somewhere in Lothlorien; It’s the same armor as in your picture in your biography right? The one with the hawk on your arm? It looks really cool and I hope it is successful! ANYways, back to your transalations,
Now that you’ve given me the word ’family’ to work with I’ve come up with - Hannon le, aran nn, an annad anim i ant o erthad na nothrim ln.

As for your poem, This is what Tyrhael and I have come up with so far -

Part One

Im eriol na thinnol Anor
ab-bannen bnt
i emyn dnen
i levain dnen
ir ithil tl uin fain
Narthol galar nan bl
Na thinnol anor

 

Part Two

ab-hen Im eriol
i filig linnar nan minuial
ah i venel pathro na galad
glriel uin menel

i amar dr thl r nan nad vain.
uin Anor chaered.

 

Pronunciation

 

For pronunciation:

a always has the a sound in father.
b has the b sound in English
c always has the value of k even if its before e or I. Therefore, celeb is pronounced keleb not seleb
d like English d
e like the e in English bed
f same value of English f (as in fair) except at the end of words and before n in which case it has a v sound
g always has the sound of the g in get, gift. Never has value of the g in  gem

h always has the value o the h inf hill
i always has the value of the i in machine. Has an ee sound. Always has this sound unless at the beginning of a word, in which case it would sound like an English y
j unused in Sindarin
k unused in Sindarin; c is used instead.
l like in less or lift not the dark way its used in ball
m like English m
n like English n except before some other consonants.
o like English o but rounder. Pronounced like the brittish English hot
p has the value of the p in spy
q unused
r always trilled, like in Spanish.
s like in say and loose. Never the z sound in as
t like in English stair
u sound of English brute. Sort of an oo sound.
v value of English v
w like English w
y has the sound of the u in the French word lune or vu. Its a tricky sound if you dont know French. Its a little like the elvish u but with more lips I guess.
z unused

ai always has the sound of English high or the pronoun I as in myself.
au has the value of ow like ow that hurt!
ae same as ai
aw see au
ch like in Scottish loch never the ch in English church.
dh always has the sound of the th om those and they
ei sounds like the ay of English May
oe like the oy in boy

th like the th in thick and path.

Note: accents on vowels  such as , , , etc. don’t change the sound of the vowel. You simply say the vowel for twice as long.

 

Part One Pronunciation


eem ereeol na thinnol anor
abbannen bant
ee em*oo*n deenen
ee levine deenen
eer eetheel toll ooeen fine
narthol galar nan beel
na theenol anor

 

Part Two Pronunciation

abhen eem ereeol
ee feeleeg leenar nan meenooeeal
ah ee venel pathro na galad
gloreeel ooeen menel
ee amar dar thool eer nan nad vine
ooeen anor *ch*ireed

*the french ’u’ sound
** the scottish ’ch’ sound


I haven’t posted the last part because it hasn’t really been gone over yet. I just need to check it a little bit more to make sure it is sound. I think  thos post was long enough anyways :-)

 

 

Elenwen: So your tengwar above is Mode of Beleriand consonants with Sindarin Mode tehtar?(because you used the Beleriand letters for ’n’ and ’m’ while using tehtar) Any reason why? I’m not saying this sarcastically, just asking why you mixed the two, or if it was just a mistake.

 

Aelindis 19/Jun/2006 at 08:32 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Elenwen: If you use a Sindarin tehtar mode as in your example above, the tengwar for m and n would be malta and nmen. vala = m and re = n  in the mode of Beleriand, which is actually the mode of the gate inscription. But this would be a full mode where the vowels are primarily represented by tengwar.

A good website for those interested in the Elvish scripts is http://at.mansbjorkman.net.
The information given on omniglot where you copied your Quenya table from is not satisfactory.

Ista Sharrasi 19/Jun/2006 at 11:11 AM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Thank you so much Harlindon and Tyrhael! I await the final installment!
Ardamir 20/Jun/2006 at 01:53 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
What would be the Sindarin and Quenya translations of ’Tolkien’, ’Tollkhn’, and ’Took’?
Ardamir 20/Jun/2006 at 05:58 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
At least Tollkhn means ’foolhardy’.
rapunzel 20/Jun/2006 at 09:54 AM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003

Hi, I was wondering if someone could roughly translate the phrase,

Awakening Spell of the Sacred Bond

or something like that. It’s for a fanfic where an elf uses this spell to awaken someone who has fallen into an enchanted slumber. He creates a sacred bond with her and in order to give her the will to wake up, he gives over a part of himself to her. Thus, when she awakens, he has become her guardian and can sense her emotions. He must guide her through to the end of her journey. The name I came up with is the best I can do, so if anyone can translate it, (I understand it may not be exact, and that’s fine) I’d appreciate it very much.


Thanks,

 

Ista Sharrasi 20/Jun/2006 at 10:31 AM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003

Harlindon... I’ve a few more small translations... lol These help me much! I’ll definitely be hanging around here for a while, lol

"I await our next meeting." and "You’re welcome." and "Is there anything I can do (to help)?"

Aelindis 20/Jun/2006 at 11:07 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

rapunzel: Maybe: lth echui en gwaedh aer, lit. "spell (of) awakening of the holy bond".

rapunzel 20/Jun/2006 at 12:08 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003
My post seems to have disappeared. What happened, did I do it wrong?
rapunzel 20/Jun/2006 at 12:22 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003

Oh, there it is! Yay, I found it.  I couldn’t find it anywhere until I made that last post, why is that?

Anyhow, thank you, Aelindis, I appreciate your taking the time to translate for me. I think that will definately work!

Thank you, thank you!

 

Elenwen 20/Jun/2006 at 01:36 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Harlindon:  I actually thought that the consonant values from the gate inscription could be used with tehtar as well... I have consulted Renk’s Sindarin course, and found out I was wrong... oops.

Alca:  I hope you haven’t embroidered my previous post yet... Here is the corrected version:


Im Alca hain echant

Ista Sharrasi 20/Jun/2006 at 01:40 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Heehee, adding in one more for translation Harlindon! "Do not worry." and "It is not a problem." If you can! Please and much thank you!
Harlindon 20/Jun/2006 at 03:52 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Ista:  Do not worry - -’osta ( + gosta) .(literally, do not fear) 
 It is not a problem -  -vudathon na sa  (vudathon = future tense of muda lenited, sa = ha lenited)(Literally, I will not toil with it.)
I await our next meeting - darthathon an govdiel vn (an = for, govodiel = gerund of govad, vn = lenited form of mn) Literally, I will wait for our next meeting.
You’re welcome - glass nn Literally - My joy. (I don’t know of a word for you’re welcome so I was going to use a word for my pleasure, but don’t know of a word for pleasure so used my joy instead.)

If you’re looking for interesting and useful elvish phrases, you may want to look HERE

Feel free to ask for them here however! I just thought you may be interested in some of the phrases there.

Nolarfini 21/Jun/2006 at 04:58 AM
Savant of Isengard Points: 557 Posts: 218 Joined: 11/Jun/2006

hi guys...can you translate the following for me?

new friend in quenya and sindarin

kint*sser in dwarfish, or whatever the name is

superman and foelight in the black tongue

old follower in Numenorian

thanx already

Harlindon 21/Jun/2006 at 07:03 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Ista: I have noticed a mistake in my above post. I translated "I will await our next meeting" as darthathon an govdiel vn when in fact it should be darthathon an ngovdiel vn ! The prposition an triggers nasal mutation so govodiel becomes ngovodiel . Also, in the same translation, I said that it literally means ’I will wait for our next meeting.’ when literally it really means - "I will wait for our meeting" (don’t know of a word for’next’) Sorry for the inconvenience.

Nolarfinie: In sindarin, New friend - mellon ’wain (’wain = lenited form of gwain)

I don’t really know that much about the other languages though... I would suggest looking around HERE for stuff on the other languages, although I’m sure someone who knowsquenya can translate ’new friend’ for you here at the translation desk.

Alca Alasse 21/Jun/2006 at 07:38 AM
Forester of Lothlorien Points: 145 Posts: 137 Joined: 18/Sep/2005
Thank you so much Elwen and Harlindon i really appreciate it.

Elwen-no i havn’t embroidered it yet, its huge and i’ve been working on it for over a year (in sections) so it probably wont be finsihed for another year :$ Thanks for pointing out the difference between the Quenya and Sindarin modes of Tengwar, that’s intirely my own ignorance as i didnt realise they were different.
Aelindis 21/Jun/2006 at 08:36 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Harlindon, I would put a few things a bit differently.
> -’osta  : -’osto (imperative)
> -vudathon na sa (.... sa is ha lenited) : It is the other way round, ha is sa lenited, and BTW, it might be *han  here.
> govdiel  (gerund of govad) : The gerund would be govaded, govdiel  is the perfect active participle "having met".
As far as I know, the prefix go- would not be affected by mutation.

Harlindon 21/Jun/2006 at 02:22 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Aelindis: Oops! Osto is the right word; I just typed in the infinitive by mistake :(  Han may be a better word(if I can get my lenition straight) to use as it makes the meaning come across a little more clearly. Nice catch on govaded! I don’t know why in the world I put govodiel. (and the worst part is I didn’t notice it the second time I said it either!)

As for an triggering nasal mutation - Doesn’t the preposition an trigger nasal mutation to govaded? Are prefixes unnafected by mutations or something? I was confused on this, because I know of two examples of the preposition an that are used differently. - "Gurth an glamhoth"  (Turin’s battle cry) and "A Pherhael ar am Meril, suilad.... (King’s Letter version Three) In the first one, nasal mutation does not occur, yet in the second, nasal mutation does occur. (a(n) Pherhael) Which one would be correct to use? (if at all)

Thank you for helping me!

Elenwen 22/Jun/2006 at 07:39 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Nolarfinwe:  "New friend" in Quenya is "meldo vinya".  As for your Black speech translation request, I don’t think that it is feasible, as there is just not enough words (known) in it!  All the words are listed here, so you may just want to look and maybe choose something different from that list.

Alca: Sindarin and Quenya writing modes are different because these two languages have different phonetic system (e.g. Quenya doesn’t have "th" or isolated "b", whereas Sindarin does).  The best way to learn to write in Elvish are, in my opinion, Renk’s courses (pdf.gz documents, can be downloaded for Quenya and Sindarin).  These have a section that teaches writing after each lesson, with explaination and lots of examples.

Harlindon 22/Jun/2006 at 10:50 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Alca: Just a few other sites you may be like if you have an interest in Tengwar. (Just to add to what Elenwen said.)

Amanye Tenceli - Very extensive info on the writing systems of Arda. Good website with downloads etc. Information on How to use them can be found here as well.

DanSmithsFantasyFonts - This is the place you want to go if you want to download tengwar fonts. Information on them and charts etc. for their use. Most tengwar fonts are based on Dan Smith’s fonts.

Celebrin 22/Jun/2006 at 11:09 AM
Linguist of Lothlorien Points: 3138 Posts: 7326 Joined: 20/May/2005
Sorry if this sounds stupid but I can’t find it anywhere. What does "finw" mean?
Elenwen 22/Jun/2006 at 12:17 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Nolofinwe:  No, it’s not stupid.  The meaning of this name is a bit obscure.  -we is a masculine suffix used in names (e.g. Eonwe, Manwe), whereas fin- is a stem which normally means "hair" (as in Glorfindel~Golden-haired).  However, there are a few other words that may be the source of the first part of this name: finde-cunning ("ndw" is a consonant cluster impossible in Quenya, so "d" must have dropped), or finwa-sagatious.
Aelindis 23/Jun/2006 at 01:17 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Quote: Originally posted by Harlindon on Wednesday, June 21, 2006
As for an triggering nasal mutation - Doesnt the preposition an trigger nasal mutation to govaded? Are prefixes unnafected by mutations or something? I was confused on this, because I know of two examples of the preposition an that are used differently. - "Gurth an glamhoth"  (Turins battle cry) and "A Pherhael ar am Meril, suilad.... (Kings Letter version Three) In the first one, nasal mutation does not occur, yet in the second, nasal mutation does occur. (a(n) Pherhael) Which one would be correct to use? (if at all)

Harlindon, this is a rather difficult matter. Of course the preposition an triggers nasal mutation.
I was drawing on a hypothesis by Thorsten to the effect that if a preposition acts on a word with a prefix that is recognized as such, the preposition would not cause any mutation (cf. ’Pedin Edhellen’ 21.2.5).
But on the other hand, go- might be a part of the word in this instance (a verb derived from a primitive stem with the help of a prefix (cf. ’Pedin Edhellen’ 17.2.5), and then the mutation would probably be appropriate. Actually, this seems to be the case here. Sorry for the confusion. 
 
Ista Sharrasi 23/Jun/2006 at 11:24 AM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Har, -’osta ^^ It helps, hannon le! (Hope I did that right... lol)
Atanvarn 24/Jun/2006 at 11:28 AM
Hasty Ent of Fangorn Points: 2222 Posts: 2225 Joined: 23/Nov/2005
Right, here it goes...Anyhow, I have studied a bit of Quenya and Sindarin though I haven’t done any translations for a long time so I thought I’d better get this checked. I was thinking of changing the name of my house to The House of Willowvale and attempted to translate it myself. I am fairly certain about the "i Abad" for "The House", but I wasn’t sure about the use of "en" for "of". And as for the last part, I combined the Sindarin word for willow "tathor" with "lad" which means valley. Anyhow, feedback would be greatly appreciated!

The House of Willowvale
i Abad en Tathorlad
Harlindon 24/Jun/2006 at 10:11 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Atanvarne:about the use of e/en. ’En/e actually means ’of the’ and takes a special type  of mutation called mixed mutation. So you would actually get i adab e thathorlad (the house of the willowvale) nice atempt though!
Ardamir 25/Jun/2006 at 11:38 PM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
What would be the Sindarin and Quenya translations of Tolkien, Tollkhn ( ’foolhardy’ ), and Took? I am just wondering if the translations happen to exist in Tolkien’s work.
Valathil Erubadhron 26/Jun/2006 at 05:12 AM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 559 Posts: 181 Joined: 01/Jun/2005

Can someone please traslate thees few frases for me in quenya and give a tengwar version as well?

- Her Who Harvests The Unfaithful
-
See Me Burn With Orc Blood
-
The Harvester Of Sorrow ( atengwar script is not necessary for this one)

Thanks a lot!!

 

Elenwen 26/Jun/2006 at 01:55 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Valathil: 

1. Unfortunately, there is no (known) verb "to harvest" in Quenya, so I used "to gather" (the nearest synonym) instead:  Ery y hosta vorondar ("She/he who gathers /the/ unfaithful"; there is one third person singular pronoun for both genders in Quenya; I left out the definite article because it is not generally used with adjectives used as nouns).

2. Ela, uryan sercenen urcuiva!  ("Look, I am burning with blood of orcs")

3. I hostar (m.)/hostall (f.) nyero ("The gatherer of grief"; there is no non-gender-specific agent ending in Quenya; if you want something "general", however, use the masculine form)

And here is the tengwar transcription for the first two:

Atanvarn 26/Jun/2006 at 03:46 PM
Hasty Ent of Fangorn Points: 2222 Posts: 2225 Joined: 23/Nov/2005
Harlindon: Thanks for helping with the translation! That’s exactly why I needed a little nudge in the right direction. I never did all that much work with mixed mutations. So...not only did I get everything cleared up, I learned something! Great work... Time to go brush up on my Sindarin I suppose!
Aelindis 26/Jun/2006 at 10:32 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Quote: Originally posted by Harlindon on Monday, June 26, 2006
>-vudathon  na sa : -vudathon han  (Pronounced - oovoodathon han) This literally means, "I will not toil here" which seems better than "I will not toil with it".
>darthathon an govdiel vn : darthathon an ngovdiel
vn (Pronounced - darthathon an ngovodeeel veen) After some debate, it has been decided that govodiel is affected by nasal mutation.

Harlindon, it seems that you have mistaken my comment on ’-vudathon na sa’ .
What I wanted to say is that I would  use lenited ha or rather han (= "it" ) *here* (= in this instance). The Sindarin word for "here" would be s.
BTW, I’m in the habit of  putting the English translations of Sindarin words and phrases between double quotation marks.

Regarding govdiel : Didn’t you agree that the gerund govaded would be needed ??

Harlindon 27/Jun/2006 at 08:32 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

I am soooo incredibly stupid! I was just copying and pasting and put the wrong stuff! I will repost with changes. Thank you for pointing out my unforgivable wrongness. I can’t believe that I posted like that!

Harlindon 27/Jun/2006 at 08:51 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Ista: I wrote a very long post for you a few days ago but lost it when my power went out. Forgive me for not  getting this to you sooner.

For your other phrase requests, Aelindis has pointed out some areas for correction:

>-’osta  : -’osto (pronounced - oo’osto),  - This was changed because the imperative is what we are looking for
>-vudathon  na sa
: -vudathon h(lenited form of s) (Pronounced - oo’voo’dath’on see) This literally means, "I will not toil here" which seems better than "I will not toil with it".
>darthathon an govdiel vn : darthathon an 
ngovaded vn (Pronounced - darth’ath’on an ngov’ad’ed veen) After some debate, it has been decided that ’govaded’ is affected by nasal mutation.

As for your poem, I have looked over it and made a few changes. I believe that it is ok, but its a lot easier to spot the mistakes of others than your own mistakes, so there is a small possibility that there are error(s) in it.

Part Three

Im eriol
Anor or-eria
ah hn nn dholen uin galad vell

i galad no veleg
dan i naid vain -wathrar

Ah Anor ad-thinna.
i amarth vr, presta hennui na vellon.
dan i naid vain -wanna
-bresta

-bresta

 

Part Three Pronunciation

eem er’ee’ol
anor or-er’ee’a
ah heen neen dholen oo’een galad veleg
dan ee nide vine oo-wathrar
ah anor ad-theena
ee amarth vor, presta hen’oo’ee na vel’lon
dan ee nide vine oo-wan’na
oo-bresta
oo-bresta

Sorry for taking so long! I hope you are able to sing this(or the quenya version I think Tyrhael is working on) well. ’Harthon linnathach vae’ (I hope you will sing well!) I enjoyed doing your translations and feel free to come back anytime.

Ardamir:I don’t believe Tolkien actually translated his name directly into Sindarin. I don’t know of a word for ’foolhardy’ either. :( Perhaps you could use a construction like Bedhollost(like a fool/emptyhead) I’m afraid This doesn’t really mean "foolhardy" however. I dont believe I can help you here.... As for ’Took’  excuse me if this is something very obvious, I am not much of a hobbit fan(no offense intended) - Does ’Took’ have a meaning in English? If so I may be able to come up with something.

Ista Sharrasi 27/Jun/2006 at 09:50 AM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Thank you Harlindon! It helps much!
Arvellas 27/Jun/2006 at 07:55 PM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5462 Posts: 3016 Joined: 16/May/2006
Here is something I would like translated into Sindarin: "The blade of Arvellas, daughter of Alyan, avenger of Linsael."  (For inscription on a sword blade.)
Harlindon 27/Jun/2006 at 08:51 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Arvellas: I would translate: The blade of Arvellas, daughter of Alyan, avenger of Linsael - i vegil Arvellas, sell Alyan, tg acharn al Linsael. [the sword Arvellas, daughter Alyan, it brings vengence for Linsael] Do you want a Tengwar transcription of this as well?
Arvellas 28/Jun/2006 at 12:48 PM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5462 Posts: 3016 Joined: 16/May/2006
Harlindon-Thanks muchly for the translation.  As for a Tengwar transcription, it would be nice, but I am really quite helpless with a computer and would not know how to save it or use it for much of anything, so thanks but no thanks.
Inwe Lythian 28/Jun/2006 at 01:13 PM
Counsellor of Imladris Points: 3702 Posts: 3069 Joined: 02/Nov/2008

Would someone please translate the following for me.  I think I have it, but my Sindarin is still very rough:

Imladris Debate Team  (into Sindarin)

Thanks!

Aelindis 28/Jun/2006 at 01:46 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Inwe Lythian: A possibility might be:  *Govannas athrabeth Imladris - "Fellowship (of) debate (of) Imladris". I would not use genitive articles or the preposition o within this phrase. *govannas is reconstructed, cf. the movie dialogs. If you don’t like reconstructed words, you could maybe say:  Hd athrabeth Imladris - "Assembly of debate of Imladris".
Ardamir 29/Jun/2006 at 04:21 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
Harlindon:

Thank you. Well, Taruithorn was Tolkiens Elvish name for Oxford, maybe he came up with Elvish names for other things (places, people) near to him as well? Took means daring according to The Peoples of Middle-earth, The Appendix on Languages (is ’foolhardy’ not more or less a synonym for ’daring’?), and in Swedish, tok means crazy person and tokig crazy. According to Tom Shippey, took is a northern pronunciation of tuck.
Aelindis 29/Jun/2006 at 07:17 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Ardamir: I found the following translation attempts of the name Tolkien into Quenya and Sindarin: 

Elfling message no. 32142 by Melroch ’Aestan, Aug 26, 2005:  ""_Tolkien_ (...) derives from German words meaning "rash" and "bold", and Tolkien indeed jocularly Anglicizes it as _Rashbold_. "Bold" is ’verya’ or ’canya’, but there is no word directly glossed as "rash" so we have to look to the synonym "hasty" where we find ’orna’ -- thus ’Ornaveryo*’ or ’Ornacanyo*’."

Elfling message non 32147 by Atwe, Aug 26, 2005:  "I once proposed the Q *Vercno  S *Bregon from roots BERK- and KAN-, I think they don’t sound that bad."

Personally, I would rather tend towards the root  BER- instead of BEREK- ("wild, violent, sudden") in order to create a Sindarin translation, since the meaning of the former seems more suitable to me: "BER-  valiant. *berya-: Q verya- to dare; verya bold; verie boldness. ON berina bold, brave; brtha-  to be bold; EN beren bold" (Etym:352).

Actually, there is the well-known name Beren. Furthermore, it is an established fact that Tolkien sometimes used this name with reference to himself, cf. Letter no.332, and the name Beren is also engraved in his tombstone.
I consider it probable that Tolkien’s choice of the name Beren as a pseudonym was deliberate and due to the concordance of its meaning with the meaning of his real name.

 

 

Harlindon 29/Jun/2006 at 07:42 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Aelindis: How interesting! I wonder if its a coincidence.(although I could see how it could not be; his work is full of double meanings and words behind words.) Thats a very clever observasion of yours
Celefindel 29/Jun/2006 at 01:19 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 568 Posts: 79 Joined: 19/Apr/2006
Oh wow, I never thought of that; that his name means "Beren"... As far as I know (I am quite sure indeed) my surname means "valiant" and would also be translated with "Beren"
Inwe Lythian 30/Jun/2006 at 10:04 AM
Counsellor of Imladris Points: 3702 Posts: 3069 Joined: 02/Nov/2008
Aelindis thanks for the help with the translation!
Harlindon 30/Jun/2006 at 07:23 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
I was wondering if my new sigg is grammatically sound in Sindarin. It should read - Men are weak! There is no honor in men! Elves (the) first-born (are) strong, everloved by the valar. Hehehe must have elvish pride right?
Aelindis 01/Jul/2006 at 02:14 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Men are weak! There is no honor in men! Elves (the) first-born (are) strong, everloved by the valar.
>  Edain uvill. ’orn ned Edain! Edhil vn-onnen vill, ui-vellin na i Valar!

_uvill_: rather -vill = lit. "not-strong in body". As we know that one of the Elvish names for Men was Q Engwar  "The Sickly" (cf. Silm.), from GENG-W- (Etym:358),  the S equivalent gem might also be suitable: Edain gim.

`_ ’orn_ = lit. "not-valor". The meaning of _ned_ is uncertain, but as far as I know it would rather indicate a temporal relationship or a direction ("into"), cf. the ’King’s Letter’.
Personally, I would probably rephrase the sentece, e.g.: "Men do not possess valor / noble minds" or similar.

_vn-onnen_: You need the plural _ennin_; and maybe rather minui - "first" ?

_na i Valar_: na+in  would presumably become nan (causing mixed mutation); instead of the Q word I would suggest S Belain or Rodyn.

_vill_: I’m under the impression that the majority of neo-Sindarin writers do not lenit predicative adjectives (after the omitted verb "to be").

_ui-vellin_: rather  ui-velennin.  

 

 

Harlindon 01/Jul/2006 at 06:59 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
 Aelindis: I took the first part from Rivendells kingodom pages, and checked over it rather lightly.(as most of the translations there seem correct to me)  So you are suggesting "Edain gim. Edain -’erir ’orn" correct?
>As for the part I did, Thank you for pointing out the need for _onnen_ to be plural, and I did overlook minui as a better word. I think that if I change the word order a bit, it could be "Edhil dhaer, vinui-ennin ah uivelennin nan Velain."? I think this makes a bit more sense. Thank you for your help with pointing out my obvious blindness and stuff in Lost Road and Road Goes ever On.(im saving up for them! Its hard though b/c I dont have a job, being underage. The only job I have is mowing my aunts lawn.) Once again, thank you!
Aelindis 01/Jul/2006 at 07:35 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Harlindon: Just two additional suggestions:
"Edhil dhaer, vinui-ennin ah ui-velennin nan Velain"
If the intended meaning is:  "The Elves (are) great, first-born and ever-loved by the Valar", I would not lenit daer and minui-ennin, as stated above. (Your version, with lenition, would IMO translate as "The great, first-born etc. Elves".   But this is to some degree a matter of personal opinion.
> nan Velain  >> nan Belain (mixed mutation!)

 

Harlindon 01/Jul/2006 at 07:59 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
thank you (making changes)
Narubol 01/Jul/2006 at 04:03 PM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 562 Posts: 355 Joined: 21/Jul/2004

Hey guys. I ordered a sword and some armour a while back in Imladris, and I was wondering what I would call the sword if the runes on it are: orc bane. Sorry, I don’t know ElvishX(. Could someone help me?

Ardamir 01/Jul/2006 at 04:23 PM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
Aelindis:

That is a very interesting fact about the name Beren. In The Notion Club Papers there is indeed a character named John Jethro Rashbold. He is described by the character Lowdham as a grumpy old bear an echo of Beren? CT also gives this interesting information in the Foreword to Morgoths Ring:

Mr William Hicklin has explained why John Rashbold, the undergraduate member of the Notion Club who never speaks, should bear the second name Jethro. In the Old Testament Moses’ father-in-law is named both Jethro and Reuel (Exodus 2:18 and 3:1); thus John Jethro Rashbold = John Reuel Tolkien


Tolkien, however, did not see himself as foolhardy:

Letter #165:

My name is TOLKIEN (not -kein). It is a German name (from Saxony), an anglicization of Tollkiehn, i.e. tollkhn. But, except as a guide to spelling, this fact is as fallacious as all facts in the raw. For I am neither ’foolhardy’ nor German, whatever some remote ancestors may have been.


But I have a suspicion that the name Took and its meaning, daring, was invented by Tolkien in relation to his own name and its meaning. He might actually have imagined himself as a Took descendant.
Elenwen 01/Jul/2006 at 06:37 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Narubol:  There being no such (known) word as "bane" in Quenya, I would translate this as "orc slayer":  urcunehtar .  Would you like it written in tengwar as well?
Aelindis 01/Jul/2006 at 09:01 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Narubol: In Sindarin we have dagnir  "bane", "slayer", attested as Danir Glaurunga, a title of Trin translated as "the Bane of Glaurung" (Silm.). 
"Bane of Orcs" would be  Dagnir Yrch  or Dagnir Orchoth.

Aelindis 02/Jul/2006 at 12:41 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Ardamir: Tc (Tca) is said to be an original Hobbit word. "According to their own tradition tca was an old word meaning ’daring’, but this appears to be a wholly unfounded guess; and I have in this case been content with anglicization of the form to Took." (PME:46)

In the earlier version F1 "the adjective tca was described as ’a Fallohide word meaning "great"’ ". (PME:58)

In Nomenclature (a commentary on the names in LotR, with explanations and suggestions for the use of translators, written by Tolkien, published in The Lord of the Rings. A Reader’s Companion  by Hammond and Scull) he wrote: "Hobbit-name of unknown origin representing actual Hobbit Tk."

Also in the Reader’s Companion (BTW, a very interesting book!) I found the following extract from an unpublished letter by Tolkien where he wrote that the Old Took "has part of his origins in the fact that both my grandfathers were longeval." (RC:54)

But though there might have been at some time a vague connection or rather association of ideas, the assumption that Tolkien "imagined himself as a Took descendant" would IMO definitely go too far.

 

Ardamir 02/Jul/2006 at 09:51 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
Aelindis:

Tolkien obviously came up with Tc from Took. Took already appeared in The Hobbit and I do not think that he had thought of Westron equivalents for the Hobbit names or even that the Hobbits language was Westron then yet. In todays English Took really means daring or something similar (I would like a confirmation on this), and the statement that tca, meaning daring according to the Hobbits tradition, has been anglicized as Took, appears only in order to simulate that the editor of LR translated the real Westron Hobbit names in the Red Book to English equivalents.


The Old Took being inspired by Tolkiens grandfather(s) fits well with the fact (assumption) that Tolkien incorporated his own traits into Bilbo. The Old Took was Bilbos grandfather.


I believe that Tolkien saw himself, and his fellow Inklings, as having Hobbit blood.

The Foreword to the 1st edition of LR [Peoples of Middle-earth, The Appendix on Languages]:

I dedicate the book to all admirers of Bilbo, but especially to my sons and my daughter, and to my friends the Inklings. To the Inklings, because they have already listened to it with a patience, and indeed with an interest, that almost leads me to suspect that they have hobbit-blood in their venerable ancestry.


One of Tolkiens ancestors, George von Hohenzollern, might have been an inspiration for Bandobras ’the Bullroarer’ Took:

J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography:

She [Tolkiens aunt Grace] alleged that the family name [’Tolkien’] had originally been von Hohenzollern, for they had emanated from the Hohenzollern district of the Holy Roman Empire. A certain George von Hohenzollern had, she said, fought on the side of Archduke Ferdinand of Austria at the Siege of Vienna in 1529. He had shown great daring in leading an unofficial raid against the Turks and capturing the Sultans standard. This (said Aunt Grace) was why he was given the nickname Tollkhn, foolhardy; and the name stuck.


The Old Norse Thorin also means daring.
Aranhael 02/Jul/2006 at 10:08 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 993 Posts: 421 Joined: 27/May/2004
>To the Inklings, because they have already listened to it with a patience,
>and indeed with an interest, that almost leads me to suspect that they have
>hobbit-blood in their venerable ancestry

Now that’s just a joke, isn’t it? ;^)
Aelindis 02/Jul/2006 at 11:57 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Ardamir:

Yes, Took already appeared in The Hobbit, just as Baggins, Sackville-Baggins and other Hobbit names like Grubb and Burrowes. Of course the fictitious derivation of the name Took from an "actual Hobbit" name belongs to a much later period of Tolkien’s writing.

I was unable to verify your assumption that in today’s English Took means "daring". Tom Shippey wrote that Took is "a faintly comic name in modern English (people prefer to spell it "Tooke"), but it is only the ordinary Northern pronunciation [as for the word too ] of the very common "Tuck". (The Road to Middle-earth)
A brief internet search confirms the continued existence of both names in modern England, though the Tucks are more numerous.

What makes you think that English Took means "daring"? As already said, Tolkien wrote that tca meant "daring" according to Hobbit traditions, and stated cleary: "I have in this case been content with anglicization of the form to Took." (PME:46, emphasis mine.)

> I believe that Tolkien saw himself, and his fellow Inklings, as having Hobbit blood.

Sorry, I don’t get your point.

I also fail to see what the assertions of Tolkien’s aunt regarding the origin of the name Tolkien  would reveal about "Hobbit blood".

I have not checked the meaning of Thorin, but if you are right, I wonder why you don’t suggest that he had also Hobbit blood.

Ardamir 03/Jul/2006 at 11:33 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003

What makes you think that English Took means "daring"? As already said, Tolkien wrote that tca meant "daring" according to Hobbit traditions, and stated cleary: "I have in this case been content with anglicization of the form to Took." (PME:46, emphasis mine.)

Like I said, I know that in Swedish, tok means crazy person and tokig crazy. English Took must mean something similar. Tolkien did not came up with tca first and decided that it meant daring and then thought that Took was a suitable anglicization for it; it was the other way around. It is only stated in the reverse way in PME, because in doing so, Tolkien simulated that the modern translator of the Red Book had found that in Hobbit tradition, tca meant daring, and thought that Took, having a similar meaning, was a suitable anglicization of it


Sorry, I don’t get your point.

What point? The Prologue in LR also states that Hobbits (or descendants thereof) exist in our times:

the regions in which Hobbits then lived were doubtless the same as those in which they still linger: the North-West of the Old World, east of the Sea.


And there is also this well known passage in Letter #213:

I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late (when possible). I do not travel much. I love Wales (what is left of it, when mines, and the even more ghastly sea-side resons, have done their worst), and especially the Welsh language. But I have not in fact been in W. for a long time (except for crossing it on the way to Ireland). I go frequently to Ireland (Eire: Southern Ireland) being fond of it and of (most of) its people; but the Irish language I find wholly unattractive.


I also fail to see what the assertions of Tolkien’s aunt regarding the origin of the name Tolkien would reveal about "Hobbit blood".

I did not quote that passage for that reason (Hobbit blood); but the name Tollkhn (meaning foolhardy, which I also assume that Took means, or something similar) was said to have originated in that event, and the event might have also been an inspiration for Bandobras Took defeating Golfimbul in the Battle of the Green Fields.
rapunzel 03/Jul/2006 at 02:14 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003

I’d like to get a phrase translated from English to Sindarin if it’s not too much trouble, please.

Here it is: "In memory of my mother’s torment, I slay thee"

Thanks very much. I look forward to hearing from someone whenever you get the chance!

Harlindon 03/Jul/2006 at 04:45 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
rapunzel: I would translate - "In memory of my mother’s torment, I slay thee" ~ "Ne rn uin baul naneth nn, Degin le"
Glossary: "Ne rn uin baul(does this take stop mutation(because it is from o(d) or mixed mutation(because it is a combination with ’in’)? I know it doesn’t matter here because ’b’ is unnafected by either of those, but for future reference I was just wondering.)naneth(could also be other words for mother, such as ’nana’ or ’emil’)nn, degin le"
rapunzel 03/Jul/2006 at 05:21 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003
Thanks, Harlindon! I appreciate it. Now, if I could just download some Tengwar...not like it matters. I wouldn’t be able to post it (it’s for a fanfiction, if you haven’t guessed) in Tengwar anyway.
Harlindon 03/Jul/2006 at 05:30 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
rapunzel: If you are looking for some more interesting RP fanfic phrases in elvish, i would suggest looking HERE. I think you may enjoy it if you are.
Aelindis 04/Jul/2006 at 01:05 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Ardamir:
Let us recapitulate the following established facts:

1. In the first place, that is to say in "The Hobbit", Tolkien used the English name Took .

2. The real meaning of this name is uncertain, but it is said to be "a faintly comic name" in modern English and "only the ordinary Northern pronunciation of the very common ’Tuck’ ". (Tom Shippey).

3. After the narration of LotR had been completed,Tolkien "developed the true forms in the Westron tongue to underlie the translated (or substituted) names, especially of Hobbits." (Chr.T. in PME:28)

4. In a first draft (F 1) Tolkien wrote that the Hobbit word tca meant "great". (PME:58)

5. In the second version (F 2) he mentioned the meaning "daring". (PEM:46)

6. Stll later on, in ’Nomenclature’, he just said that that it was a "Hobbit name of unknown origin".

As a matter of course Tolkien did not come up with tca first and decided that it meant "daring" and then thought that Took was a suitable anglicization for it. Undoubtedly it was the other way round: The long-existing name Took was in need of an explanation, and obviously Tolkien was toying with quite different ideas ("great", "daring", "unknown origin").
I am well aware of his attitude of simulating to be the translator of the ’Red Book’.
But even playing the role of a translator he did not simulate that he ( = this ’translator’ ) was rendering tca  as Took because the names had similar meanings. Quite the contrary, he said that he had been "content with anglicization of the form" (PME:46).

All things considered, there is not the least evidence so far that the English name Took would mean "daring".

Though Swedish tok may mean "crazy person", I fail to see a connection to the English names "Took" / "Tuck" (cf. especially the Old and Middle English ancestors of "tuck").

So far so good.
What I definitely don’t understand is your assertion that "Tolkien saw himself as having Hobbit blood", unless you are actually joking, as Aran already suggested.


 

 

Ardamir 04/Jul/2006 at 03:58 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
Quite the contrary, he said that he had been "content with anglicization of the form" (PME:46).

Yes, I understand what you are saying now. So anglicization only implies coming up with an English(-sounding) word that sounds similar to the original word, not translation as well?


Though Swedish tok may mean "crazy person", I fail to see a connection to the English names "Took" / "Tuck" (cf. especially the Old and Middle English ancestors of "tuck").

What are the Old and Middle English ancestors of tuck then? If Took means something like fool, Tolkien might have intended the phrase fool of a Took as a word play.


What I definitely don’t understand is your assertion that "Tolkien saw himself as having Hobbit blood", unless you are actually joking, as Aran already suggested.

What I am saying is that in Tolkiens imaginative mythology, there are descendants of Hobbits in our times, and Tolkien imagined himself to be one of them.
Lindir of Lindon 04/Jul/2006 at 06:45 AM
Banned Points: 824 Posts: 453 Joined: 12/May/2006
I’m thinking of changing my name so it actually means something and I came up with Garafin. I used the sindarin words "garaf" (wolf) and "fain" (often shorted to "fin", white), so it should mean "white wolf". Is this ok and how should I pronounce this? Thanks.
Aelindis 04/Jul/2006 at 09:54 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Garai: I don’t recall examples of Sindarin words where fain  "white" is shortened to fin. Maybe you could help me out.

Ardamir:  As I am not an expert on Old and Middle English I could only repeat what I found on numerous websites. Therefore I would suggest that you browse the web and see for yourself that the English last name Tuck seems to be of uncertain origin. The OE / ME ancestors of the noun "tuck" and the verb "to tuck" are to be found in dictionaries, but they don’t seem to be related to the name Tuck, and their meanings have nothing to do with "fool". Likewise, none of the potential origins of the name Tuck (Old Norse, Jewish, German)  that I am aware of has the meaning "fool" or similar.

> What I am saying is that in Tolkien’s imaginative mythology, there are descendants of hobbits in our times, and Tolkien imagined himself to be one of them.

I agree to the first part of your statement, as confirmed by the quote from the LotR Prologue in your previous post.
But I find it impossible to take the second part seriously. It is hard to believe that someone would take Tolkien’s words in Letter 213: "I am in fact a Hobbit  (in all but size). (...)" quite literally and hence assume that Tolkien actually thought that his ancestors were Hobbits. 

Be that as it may, a further discussion of this wild guess of yours would be totally off topic here in the Translation Tread of the Languages Forum.
May I suggest that you post your thoughts concerning this matter in your thread  >The History of Hobbits (ground breaking thread)<  in the Forum ’Middle earth People & Races’.
(There you have already tried to prove that Hobbits, especially Tooks, had Elvish ancestors, so the additional idea that the Professor himself was a descendant of this mingled family seems to belong to the mentioned tread.)

Ardamir 04/Jul/2006 at 03:32 PM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
But Pippin is a bit of a fool in LR, is he not?

Why is it impossible to take it seriously? Who would be a better candidate for being a Hobbit descendant than Tolkien? I am not basing my assumption only on the passage in Letter #213, but also on the one in the Foreword to the 1st ed. of LR, and also on the passage in the Prologue.
Aranhael 05/Jul/2006 at 12:53 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 993 Posts: 421 Joined: 27/May/2004
>Why is it impossible to take it seriously? Who would be a better candidate
>for being a Hobbit descendant than Tolkien? I am not basing my assumption
>only on the passage in Letter #213, but also on the one in the Foreword to
>the 1st ed. of LR, and also on the passage in the Prologue.

Tolkien has always toyed with the idea that some Elves or Hobbits could have survived until today and ’linger somewhere’. A better candidate for a Hobbit descendant thus would be a living Hobbit.
There are no implications that Hobbits and Humans could have ever had common offsprings. It is already difficult in the case of Elves and Men - their marriages were rare and were all destined to play a crucial part in the history of Arda.
Tolkien says ’I am in fact a hobbit’ (meaning: ’I have the character of a hobbit&rsquo, not ’I have hobbit ancestry’ - you can read some things about his real ancestry in the other letters.
Ardamir 05/Jul/2006 at 01:07 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
But if Tolkien had in mind that his fellow Inklings had Hobbit blood, then he most likely thought so about himself as well. And there is also the fact that he was short.

Hobbits were Men, and I think that the Stoor breed was formed of unions between Hobbits and ’Big People’.

I understand that Tolkien meant that he has Hobbit character - but behind that he may have had something more literal in mind as well.
Aranhael 05/Jul/2006 at 08:32 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 993 Posts: 421 Joined: 27/May/2004
>But if Tolkien had in mind that his fellow Inklings had Hobbit blood

You’re taking things too seriously, this is clearly a joke - the Inklings have politely listened to it without showing boredom and so:
that almost leads me to suspect that they have hobbit-blood in their venerable ancestry
’Venerable’ brings the portion of pathos into it. ;^)

>Hobbits were Men

What do you mean? Hobbits, Men, and Elves are all different ’races’. The Hobbits are no more Men than Ents are Dwarves.
Lindir of Lindon 05/Jul/2006 at 11:40 AM
Banned Points: 824 Posts: 453 Joined: 12/May/2006

Ok, how about Cirgeleb as in "silver ship"? Is that good and also how do I pronounce it?

Ardamir 06/Jul/2006 at 12:51 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
Aranhael:

Yes, I understand that it is a joke but I think that there is at the same time truth in it.


It is a well established fact that Hobbits were Men; Tolkien mentioned it in several places. One is a note to Letter #131:

The Hobbits are, of course, really meant to be a branch of the specifically human race (not Elves or Dwarves)
Aranhael 06/Jul/2006 at 09:24 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 993 Posts: 421 Joined: 27/May/2004
Well, a ’branch of the human race’ is not identical to ’they were humans’ - they were still a different race. In a conception orcs were a distorted branch of the Elvish race, but you won’t say that ’Orcs are Elves’ just like that without further explanation.
Ardamir 07/Jul/2006 at 05:11 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
This really should not be an issue it is commonly regarded as a fact, not only by me.

PME, Of Dwarves and Men:

For the Longbeards, though the proudest of the seven kindreds [of the Dwarves], were also the wisest and the most farseeing. Men held them in awe and were eager to learn from them; and the Longbeards were very willing to use Men for their own purposes. Thus there grew up in those regions the economy, later characteristic of the dealings of Dwarves and Men (including Hobbits)

Hobbits on the other hand were in nearly all respects normal Men, but of very short stature.


The Hobbits also called themselves Little People and other normal Men (but not Elves, it seems) Big People.
Aranhael 07/Jul/2006 at 09:36 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 993 Posts: 421 Joined: 27/May/2004
On the other hand the same text states:

[...] they [the Hobbits] had [...] acquired many arts and customs by contact with Men (PM:310-311)

The term ’Men’ is here used to distuinguish the ’Big People’ from the Hobbits. On the pages 313-314 it is said that the Nmenrean classification of Men was applied to those whose looks were similar to those of the Nmenreans, but then it is mentioned that Drgs and Hobbits were races of small Men, descendants of those who fled from Morgoth.

Anyway, for some degree it’s a question of definition. I just found your short statement a bit confusing.


But you may find the following quote interesting:
The Hobbit saga is presented as vera historia, at great pains (which have proved very effective). In that frame the question ’Are you a hobbit?’ can only be answered ’No’ or ’Yes’, according to one’s birth. Nobody is a ’hobbit’ because he likes a quiet life and abundant food; still less because he has a latent desire for adventure. Hobbits were a breed of which the chief physical mark was their stature (Let:281)
Ardamir 07/Jul/2006 at 02:18 PM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
Well, Tolkien said "I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size)." But the important thing is that, as I suspect, he regarded himself as having the blood of those, the Hobbits, that appear in the work he ’translated’.
Aelindis 07/Jul/2006 at 11:47 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
If you are actually suspecting that Tolkien’s words "I am in fact a Hobbit  ( in all but size )" should be taken at face value, the next consequential step of your research would be a close investigation whether the Professor’s feet had "tough leathery soles and were clad in a thick curling hair."
Ardamir 08/Jul/2006 at 04:13 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
One only needs to have a tiny bit of Hobbit blood to be a descendant of Hobbits, and that does not necessarily make one look completely like them.
Aelindis 08/Jul/2006 at 08:17 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
But Tolkien wrote "in all but size". Seemingly you do not take these words seriously after all.
Do you happen to know about any real evidence in order to prove the case for your hypothesis that a man who looked like an ordinary man, though he liked gardens and trees and so on, actually was a Hobbit, by any chance?  
Ardamir 08/Jul/2006 at 03:22 PM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
This, like many other issues in Tolkien, cannot be proven; it is a feeling that one gets - but that does not mean that it has been proven untrue. Of course Tolkien was not exactly like a pure, genuine Hobbit, but he may have thought that he had a tiny bit of Hobbit blood. Of course he did not think that one of his parents or grandparents was a pure Hobbit his Hobbit ancestry lay much further back. I think that genealogy was a fairly significant element in his mythology, and I also have the idea and this might be hinted at somewhere, and even already discussed that Tolkien considered Jesus Christ and/or himself to be one of the children of Lthien, descendant of Aragorn.

If you think that the passage in the Foreword to the 1st ed. of LR sounds too much like a joke, then there is also this passage in a text of which elements were used in the Foreword to the 1st ed. of LR:

PME, The Appendix on Languages:

It [the LR] has been written during many years for those who were interested in the account of the great Adventure of Bilbo, and especially for my friends, the Inklings (in whose veins, I suspect, a good deal of hobbit blood still runs), and for my sons and daughter.
Aelindis 09/Jul/2006 at 01:56 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

> This, like many other issues in Tolkien, cannot be proven; it is a feeling that one gets - but that does not mean that it has been proven untrue.

Nobody can "prove" that  "a feeling is untrue". 
A "feeling" may just exist in somebody’s mind and remain there, even though he/she is unable to circumstantiate it or to give comprehensible reasons for it.

A scholarly discussion does not deal with inexplicable feelings.
A feeling may sometimes be the starting point of an investigation, and if plausible arguments are found, a theory or at least a logically consistent hypothesis may be formed.  

Your "feeling" that Tolkien really believed to be a descendant of Hobbits lacks probability, though I do not doubt that it is a "true", that is to say an actually existing "feeling" of yours. 
You were already compelled to admit that Tolkien’s words "I am in fact a Hobbit  (in all but size)" and his allusion to the "Hobbit blood" of the Inklings must not be taken literally and sound like a joke. Nontheless, you still adhere to your "feeling", which you are of course entitled to do. 

Surprisingly, you seem to have at the same time a feeling or an "idea" to the effect that Tolkien considered himself to be a descendant of Aragorn, not to mention an Elvish/Dnedain ancestry of Jesus Christ ???

If you have anything to substantiate your feelings and ideas, they will doubtlessly be discussed by interested people, though preferably not in here the Languages Forum.

Ardamir 09/Jul/2006 at 06:11 AM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 984 Posts: 532 Joined: 17/Oct/2003
Nobody can "prove" that "a feeling is untrue".

If there existed proof that it is untrue, it would be proven so.


A feeling may sometimes be the starting point of an investigation, and if plausible arguments are found, a theory or at least a logically consistent hypothesis may be formed.

The passages concerning the Inklings are an argument plausible enough to form a theory, in my opinion.


You were already compelled to admit that Tolkien’s words "I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size)" and his allusion to the "Hobbit blood" of the Inklings must not be taken literally and sound like a joke.

I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size) shows me that Tolkien thought that he was quite similar to Hobbits, which combined with the other passages I have quoted, gives me this feeling. I gave you the earlier version of the passage concerning the Inklings since you thought that the version in the Foreword to 1st ed. of LR sounds too much like a joke to be considered seriously to me it does not.


Surprisingly, you seem to have at the same time a feeling or an "idea" to the effect that Tolkien considered himself to be a descendant of Aragorn, not to mention an Elvish/Dnedain ancestry of Jesus Christ ???

It is not impossible to be a descendant of both Aragorn and Hobbits at the same time. And would Jesus rather be a descendant of Easterlings? What is especially significant regarding the children of Lthien is that they also had a Maia strain, which granted healing powers, like Jesus had. The principle set out in The Lost Road (and also The Notion Club Papers) is also relevant, but as you said, it is better to take this discussion elsewhere.
rapunzel 09/Jul/2006 at 09:11 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003
Can anyone please tell me the Sindarin word for summer as well as the plural version? Thanks for helping, you guys always do a terrific job.
Aelindis 10/Jul/2006 at 02:36 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
The Sindarin word for "summer" is laer (singular & plural).
rapunzel 10/Jul/2006 at 10:56 AM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003
Hmmm....this is for a LoTR/Buffy crossover fic. Buffy’s last name is Summers, so I’m wondering what an elf might call her as a nickname, using her last name. "Lady of the Summer" would work. What would that be?
rapunzel 12/Jul/2006 at 11:40 AM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003
Aelindis, Sorry, I don’t think I phrased a clear enough question. What would the name "Lady of the Summer" or "Lady of Summer" be in Sindarin? Thanks so much for your help.
Aelindis 12/Jul/2006 at 12:50 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
rapunzel: Your question was quite clear, but I was not there. A literal translations of "Lady of (the) Summer" would be Hril Laer or Hril e-Laer (with genitive article). Other words for "lady" are brennil or heryn. If you like one of those better, just replace hiril  by it.
rapunzel 12/Jul/2006 at 04:36 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003

Aelindis, would there be a way of making that into a nickname, or title? Or is there another way of saying it that isn’t an exact literal translation that’s a little more flowy? Please don’t take this the wrong way, I so appreciate your help whenever I post a question. I’m just wanting something that rolls off the tongue a little more easily. Perhaps something in Quenya?

I just want a ME name for Buffy that isn’t "Dagnir". That’s done so much in so many fics, that I wanted to go a different direction. I thought a play on her last name would work out, but I’m not crazy about the translation. If you have any ideas, I’d love to hear them.

Thanks again, and I’m sorry I’m such a picky little pest!

Harlindon 12/Jul/2006 at 05:26 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

All right, massive post here I’m writing up a language article for the Mirror(Lothlorien Newspaper) including elvish phrases for daily use in Lorien. I’ve done them all and would like to know if anyone could point out  any suggestions, criticisms, or corrections that can be made here. (For reference you can use the numbers for each phrase) Here goes -
Caras Galadhon
1.Caras Galadhon is full of light - Caras Galadhon no bant calad [Caras Galadhon is full (of) light]
2. Galadriel is as beautiful as the starlight - Galadriel vain be gilgalad [Galadriel beautiful like-the starlight]
3. Celeborn is a giver of gifts beyond the power of kings - Celeborn oneth aint athar i dr erain [celeborn giver (of) gifts beyond the power (of) kings]
Gardens of Lorien
4. Behold the beautiful gardens of Lorien - Elo i haint vain Lorien [Behold the gardens beautful (of) Lorien]
5.  The flowers grow - i gwaloth galar [the collection of flowers they grow]
6. The flower brings joy to me - i loth tl ’lass anim [the flower it brings joy to me]
Houses of Healing
7. Here everyone will be healed - s nestadatham bn [here we will heal all]
8. Welcome to the houses of healing - Mae tollen na in edaib nestadren [well-come to the houses of healing]
9. Do you desire healing?/ I will heal you - Anirach nestad?/ Nestadathon [you desire healing? I will heal you]
Maze of the Perpetually lost
10. I hope you will find a way to the end - Harthon radathach nan methed [I hope you will find a way to the end]
11. The road be true for you! - i rd thenin an le*  [the road/ path true for you]
12. You will find the road  - Cenithach i rd  [you will see the road
Nimrodels Glade of Trivia
13. You will find the right answer - Cenithach i dhambeth thenin [you will find the response true]
14. I do not understand -  -chenion [not-I understand]
15. You will understand - Cenithach channas [you will see understandin]
Lawn of Lorien
 (see "small talk")
Music Guild
16. You fill the wood with music - Pathrach i-daur na linnad [you fill the woods with singing]
17. I hear beautiful singing - Laston linnad  vain
18. Behold! Listen well! - Elo! Lasto vae! [Behold, listen/hear well]
The Guard
I will protect Lorien with my life - Beriathon Lorien na guil nn [I will protect/defend Lorien with life my]
~Ne Dagor~(in battle)
The sword-fighters shall defend this place! - i meigor*beriathar i had hen [the sword fighters they will defend place this]
21. Fire the arrows at my command/sign - hado i philin ben daith nn [hurl the arrows according to sign my]
22. Help - Tulu!
23. Im wounded! - Im harnannen!
24. Death to the orcs - Gurth ’ni ych!
25. For Lorien - An Lothlorien!
26. Protect Lothlorien  - Berio Lorien!
(The majority of the above (ne dagor) were taken from Pedin Edhellen)
The Debate Team
27. Princess Gia leadsus to victory - Princess Gia tg vn na aglareb [princess gia she leads us to glory]
28. I enjoyed our debate - Mellannon athrabeth vn [I loved crossing-of words our]
29. No, you are incorrect/Yes, you are correct - Baw, le raeg/ Mae, le thenin
LJA
30. Your jewels shine - Mr ln slar [jewels your with silver light shine]
31. Behold! - Elo!
32. The mirdain are skilled - i mrdain vaenj
Forges of the Forest
33. The metal-smiths make sharp swords - i thincdain echadar meigol vaeg [the metal smiths they make swords sharp]
34. I greet you makers of spear bow and sword - Suilon le, tain ech, peng, ah hathol [i greet thou, makers spear, bow and broadsword]
35. This sword will protect you in battle - magol han beriatha le ne dagor [sword this it will protect you in battle]
Small Talk
36. Hello - suilad, mae govannen
37. Goodbye - !Novaer
38. Friend - mellon
39. you bring joy to me - telich ’lass anim
40. Varda tr an le* - Varda watch over you!

*11. & 40. - David Salo suggests !alle  for "for you"
** 20. - Why does Thorsten suggest meigol as the plural of magol? Shouldn’t it be maigol? And shouldn;t the word be rather magor instead of magol anyways?!?(making it maigor?)

I have a few more phrases on the way.....

Thank you for whoever has any comments!

Aelindis 13/Jul/2006 at 12:21 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
rapunzel, it may be convenient to append the female suffix -eth to laer : Laereth (meaning "Summer-woman"), or to use -iel : Laeriel (meaning "Daughter / girl / maid of summer").
Aelindis 13/Jul/2006 at 04:33 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Harlindon, these are my comments / suggestions / questions. There might be a few other debatable aspects of vocabulary and grammar, but they appear to be optional (to a certain degree).

1.  no  would be the imperative / optative :  "be ! " / "may it be that". 
2.  I would not lenite the predicative adjective bain after the omitted verb "to be". The preposition be would probably cause soft mutation.
3.  oneth  means "giver", but only referring to female characters.
4.   **i haint :  As this is plural, it should be  i saint  (nasal mutation).
5.   **i gwaloth : Singular would be i’waloth, plural In gwaloth.
6.   **nestadatham : The verb is supposed to be *nesta-  , hence nestatham.
7.  na in
  would probably become nan
8.  nestadren is an adjective, so, unless you want to say "the healing houses", it should presumably be edaib nestad ("houses of healing").
9.  **Nestadathon : > nestathon , see above. BTW, you left out the translation of "you".
11.  **thenin : From VT46:16 we know that this word shoul actually read thann.
Regarding your footnote :  Thorsten suggests *allen  (Pronouns in dative), but *anle  "for thyself" (Pronouns in emphazised/reflexive dative).
15. Why not simply Heniathach ?
20. >> Why does Thorsten suggest meigol as the plural of magol ?
An easily comprehensible explanation is given in ’Pedin Edhellen’, 8.2.2.
>> And shouldn’t the word be rather magor instead of magol anyways?!?
Well, Harlindon, that depends on what you actually wish to say. magor  means "swordfighter",  magol  means "sword". The potential irregular plural formation applies to both.
24. **ych :  You have a typo here, it should be yrch.
25. **An Lothlorien
: Maybe rather Al Lothlrien (nasal mutation following an, cf. Thorsten, HKF et al.; long vowel).
27. Why don’t you translate "princess"? aglareb is an adjective, you require the noun.
28. **Meliannon : Rather melannen (1st p. past tense).
29. Baw Maybe rather *law  (denying fact, not intention).
32. Again, I would not lenite maen in order to avoid confusion with "the skilled mrdain", cf. 1. above.
33. **echadar : Rather *echedir. **meigol should be lenited as direct object.
34. **tain ech [...] : As far as I know,  -tan  is only attested in compounds like mrdan etc.
35. **magol han :  > magol hen. 
40. Your translation seems to mean "Varda watches for thyself". Probably you want an imperative / optative and a different pronoun.


.



 

rapunzel 13/Jul/2006 at 05:56 AM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003
Aelindis, awesome, awesome, awesome! I love it. Either of those will work beautifully. I’ll definately be giving you a credit in my next chapter as a wonderful and very helpful translator. Thank you so much for your assistance.
Aelindis 13/Jul/2006 at 06:19 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
rapunzel, I am pleased to hear that my sugestion was helpful, but you definitely don’t need to give me credit for it, because it was very easy.
Celebrimbor 13/Jul/2006 at 07:13 AM
Chieftain of the Mark Points: 8047 Posts: 4093 Joined: 26/Jan/2005

Is their any chance that someone could translate/formulate a few phrases into their Sindarin name equivalents. Sorry if I’m not being clear; I would like to have Sindarin names for imagined Elves/Men made from the following phrases, if possible:

1. Painted Soul
2. Silver Forge
3. Silver Hammer
4. Silver Sprig (as in sprig of holly)
5. Silver Circlet
6. Silver Bear
7. Silver Vessel
8. Silver Vassal
9. Victor-upon-Quay
10. Seaward Pillar
11. Victor-of-the-North
12. Barrow Warden
13. Man of Hollin
14. Misty Settler
15. Guardian of the Gate
16. The dispossessed
17. Wanderer of the Coast
18. Robed Stranger
19. Woodsman
20. Bear Fell
21. Bear Pelt

If there is anyone who can help me I would greatly appreciate it, I know there’s quite a lot.

Golden Sailor 13/Jul/2006 at 10:39 AM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 336 Posts: 275 Joined: 25/Apr/2006
I am currently taking the pedin edhelen Sindarin courses. I was wondering if you could let me help you a little here. I am not an expert but I sopose I can do a job similar to Laebeth’s. Is there any kind of examination I have to pass?
Aelindis 13/Jul/2006 at 10:42 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Celebrimbor: May I suggest that you take into consideration what is stated in the guidlines on the top of this thread? 
"We recommend that you try simple translations (such as single words or names) for yourself, and then if you’re uncertain, post it here for us to check it over. For Sindarin, use [certain dictionaries]".

Please, don’t get me wrong, I am aware that I have given a detailed answer to the  much more challenging questions of Harlindon quite recently, but he has already poven to be actually interested in this language, and therefore I regard my comments on his translations as a discussion among like-minded people.

Otherwise, I am certainly willing to do short translations of singe phrases or names, but I am not a translation-machine.

Aelindis 13/Jul/2006 at 11:14 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Quote: Originally posted by Golden Sailor on Thursday, July 13, 2006
I am currently taking the pedin edhelen Sindarin courses. I was wondering if you could let me help you a little here. I am not an expert but I sopose I can do a job similar to Laebeths. Is there any kind of examination I have to pass?
I am not sure, if I understand you correctly. I congratulate you on your decision to take ’Pedin Edhellen’ as a basis for your studies.
If you have any comments on anything posted in this thread, you are welcome to do so, without any examination. If your comments were incorrect, someone would point that out (in all likelihood).  
rapunzel 13/Jul/2006 at 11:57 AM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003
Could someone who speaks Quenya please give me a translation for the word "Wanderer"? It would be a name for a male. Thanks so much to anyone who can help me.
Harlindon 13/Jul/2006 at 01:31 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Celebrimbor: I’d be happy to translate them, I’ll have them in tonight.(im about to have dinner right now, so I can’t do them right now)
Aelindis: I have a few comments, but as I just said, can’t really take the time to write them out right now. Ill have them in in a few hours
Harlindon 13/Jul/2006 at 04:41 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Aelindis: First of all, thank you for taking the time to look over those phrases!  Just want to point out a few small things -
1. >>The preposition be would probably cause soft mutation.
I actually  wrote ben when I did these on paper(causing a mixed mutation, which would not affect ’g’) and must have forgotten the ’n’ when I typed it out.
3. >oneth  means "giver", but only referring to female characters
I figured this could only be applied to female characters but was a little unsure. Thanks for pointing out the dreadful mistake!
5 >> Type out, the same that happened with ben.
6. >>   **nestadatham : The verb is supposed to be *nesta-  , hence nestatham.
Ack! Don’t know what I was thinking. I was thinking of nestad  ’healing’ and for some reason used it as a stem thank you again.
8.  >>nestadren is an adjective, so, unless you want to say "the healing houses", it should presumably be edaib nestad ("houses of healing").
The houses of healing in Lorien actually do go by the name ’healing houses’ instead of ’houses of healing’.
11.>>  **thenin : From VT46:16 we know that this word shoul actually read thann.
Sadly I am unaware of such things as I do not receive Vinyar Tengwar. (But I just received a copy of the LR and have ordered The road Goes Ever On)
15. >> Why not simply Heniathach ?
Because I love to overcomplicate things! Thanks for pointing that out
27. >>Why don’t you translate "princess"? aglareb is an adjective, you require the noun
Princess Gia is actually a username of someone on the Plaza(the captain of the bedate team) and I was unsure if people would know who was being talked about if I used the sindarin word.  - You are right, Aglar is the word we are looking for here.
34. >>**tain ech [...] : As far as I know,  -tan  is only attested in compounds like mrdan etc.
Do you know of a better word? I thought this was the closest word to it and couldn’t think of anything else.
40. >>Your translation seems to mean "Varda watches for thyself". Probably you want an imperative / optative and a different pronoun.
Yes, the imperitive is what is needed here.

>>Magor magol etc. - I really need to look over Pedin Edhellen again.(maybe even print it out) My memory has faded somewhat...

Once again, thank you for all your help! It is greatly appreciated.

 

Celebrimbor: Take a look in the chat thread in you house

 

Anyone willing to give acurate advice:
Phrases Part Two

Quentalmo
Your words be sharp! - Pith ln maeg!
Speak true - Pedo thann
Your minds be clear/ uncluttered - ind ln laden
Poetry
Your words bring me peace - Pith ln telir dh anim
You are skilled in words - Le vaen ne pith
Wow! - Elo/Ai
Architecture
You build great buildings/structures - Cerich edaib dhaer
The builders of Lothlorien - Thaivryn Lothlorien [thaivryn = Plural of Thavron]
Thank you builder - Hannon le thavron
Art
You make beautiful things - Cerich naid vain
Look there! - Tiro ennas!
Beautiful! - Bain!


Thanks to whoever helps!

Harlindon 13/Jul/2006 at 04:51 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Golden Sailor: Sorry I didn’t include this in my above post! ( I really didn’t feel like copying pasting and deleting the post again) As Aelindis has said, congrats on becoming interested in the language and taking the course. If you want to post here, go right ahead, I find it a good way to learn. However, be prepared to be corrected at soem point or another, as we don’t want to give people wrong translations. (I’m not saying this as an expert on Sindarin, just as someone a little bit experienced with the translation desk, and I don’t intend to frighten you away! ) It is a good place to learn about and discuss ME languages. Just always remeber that any criticism here is constructive and meant to correct and not be mean! (or at least so far no one has had the intent of just being evil to my knowledge) They are just trying to help, even if their words seem a bit sharp.
rapunzel 14/Jul/2006 at 11:09 AM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003
Okay, since no one who speaks Quenya seems to be available, could I please get the word "wanderer" translated into Sindarin? Thanks so much, I’ll be checking for an answer periodically.
Elenwen 14/Jul/2006 at 11:17 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Rapunzel:  Well, I don’t *speak* Quenya, but I  can write and read it well enough, I think.  So "wanderer" in Quenya is "ran" (not attested by itself, but isolated from "Palarran"--"far-wanderer", the name of a ship).  Or perhaps by using agent endings we can form from "ranya-"--"to wander" "ranyar" for a masculine form or "ranyall" for a feminine form.
rapunzel 14/Jul/2006 at 11:58 AM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 451 Posts: 77 Joined: 02/Dec/2003
Thanks, Elenwen. I didn’t mean ’speak Quenya’ per se, but someone who’s able to translate. I guess that’s what I should have said in the first place. Thanks for responding so quickly.
Aelindis 14/Jul/2006 at 01:03 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Harlindon:  Regarding 34. ("Do you know of a better word?") :
Not really, unless one would take ceredir into consideration, but I am not sure if it would be suitable in this sentence.
Another possibility might be to form compounds with -tan :  *echdan, *pengdan, *hatholdan.

Regarding your new phrases :    
> Your words be sharp / > Your minds be clear : Your translations seem to say, "Your words (are) sharp" etc., maybe  no  would express the optative meaning (if I understand this correctly) better? ( No vaeg i phith ln ) etc.
> pith ln telir dh :  I believe you require the verb tog- , not  tol-.
> le vaen ne pith
: Again, I would not lenit the adjective. I am not sure what *ne is, actually. Do you mean na ? ( na would cause mutation, however.)
> **thaivryn :  Would not the plural be thevryn ?


 

Ista Sharrasi 15/Jul/2006 at 06:29 AM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Harlindon, do you know when the Quenya version of my poem will be done? I’ve got it in celtic, italian, sindarin, and soon in Urukenne, but I’m missing Quenya ^_^
Harlindon 15/Jul/2006 at 07:22 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Ista: No idea. Tyrhael has been away from the translation desk for a while. Hopefully, Elhath or Elenwen will be along and help you with it. Sorry for the inconvinence. (thats amazing! you have it in 4 languages!thats reallly cool)
Aelindis:Thanks once again. I must say I agree with you on pretty much everything regarding the newer phrases; I dont think there is much to argue about with them(not that this is just for the sake of argument of course!). Regarding ne:  It’s a preposition implying motion in the middle of something, basically the word ’in’ (or at least thats what I have come to believe) cf. nestegi (ne + stag-) neledhi (ne + ledhi) I believe it is in close relation with ned. (which comes from root NED, from which is also derived enedh ’middle’) Anyways, it was not the correct word to use because its meaning is not the ’in’ of the phrases.(whoses synonym would be a word like ’with’) I think na would be a better replacement anyways. Thanks again for all your help!
Ista Sharrasi 15/Jul/2006 at 09:36 AM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Thanks Harlindon ^^ I’ll check back in a while then, or if Tyrhael comes back before then, please have Tyr e-mail me at IstaSharrasi@yahoo.com ^_^
Anri 16/Jul/2006 at 11:04 AM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5602 Posts: 3153 Joined: 03/Nov/2004
If someone could translate this sentences for me, I would be eternally grateful..if my wording seems to hard, you may change it. It is fine with me, as long as the meaning remains the same! Thank ye muchly much!

~What do you speak of?
~My true parents are known to me.
~One is dead, and the other lusts for his power.
~She is my mother.
~Yes. And...Theodred of Rohan is my father.

*hugses the one who will translate it all*
Elenwen 16/Jul/2006 at 12:26 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Anarie:  Here is a Quena translation as close as I could make it.  In all cases the part of the pronominal ending in parenthesis can be either used or not, with no change in meaning.

~What do you speak of?
Mano quetal(y
)?--formal OR Mano quetacc?--informal (What-of speak-you?)  Both versions can be used for both singular and plural and imply that the person is speaking at the moment.  However, the informal ending is a reconstruction based on Sindarin, never attested by itself.  You might want to use the formal version just to be sure.  It’s up to you, however.

~My true parents are known to me.
Istan(y
) nostarenyar anwar.  (I-know parents-my true)

~One is dead, and the other lusts for power.
Quen n firin/qualin, ar i ex
mer tauri/melci. (One is dead, and the other desires might) "Firin" means "dead by natural causes", whereas "qualin" is more like "killed".  "Taurie" is formed from an attested adjective "taura", meaning "very mighty, vast, of unmeasured might or size", whereas "melcie" is formed from an unattested adjective "melca" (seen in the name Melkor) "mighty with connotation of violence".  The choise is up to you.

~She is my mother.
Ns amillenya. (Is-she mother-my.)

~Yes. And...Theodred of Rohan is my father.
N.  Ar  Theodred Rohanello n atarenya. (So-it-is.  And Theodred Rohan-of is father-my)  I would like to note that the name "Theodred" is unacceptable from the point of view of Quenya phonology, so it would be much better to translate it.  If you find out what it means, I will gladly translate it for you.  "Rohan" is ok from the point of view of phonology, but I am not at all sure that this is what the exiled Noldor (the only people who actually spoke Quenya in ME) would actually call this land.

Elenwen 16/Jul/2006 at 04:42 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Ista:  Here is my attempt to translate the first verse of your poem.  One thing that I discovered is that there is no such word as "when" in Quenya, so I used the Sindarin word "ir" (from Hisweloke dictionary) instead.  It is perfectly ok with Quenya sound system, but if someone knows of a Quenya reconstruction for "when", I’d rather use it instead. The progressive tense in the word-for-word translation shows that I used Present tense rather than Aorist (the setting of the sun being at the moment, and not a "universal truth").  If you would like me to mark stresses for you, I will do it.  Quenya is read much like Latin: you read the letter you see without any exceptions, but for the "c" which is always "k".  Accented vowels are long. Two dots above an "e" don’t mean any change in sound; they just show that the vowel should be read separately from another vowel or pronounced at the end of a word (where it is mute in English). There is a note on pronunciation at the end of the Sil as well, so I don’t think a pronunciation guide will be necessary. I just don’t see any better way to write the Quenya sounds with Latin alphabet.

Im alone when the sun sets
When everyone is gone
The hills are silent
The animals quiet
When the moon comes from behind a cloud
Lighting a lantern in the colors of the sun
When the sun sets.

 

Nn erya ir Anar nta, 

Ir ilquen vanwa n.

I ambor quildinqu nar,

I celvar quildinqu nar.

Ir Isil tula fanyallo

Ir Anar nta.

 

A word-for-word translation:

 

I-am alone when Sun is-setting

When everyone gone is

The hills silence-full-of are,

The animals silence-full-of are

When Moon is-coming cloud-out-of

When Sun is-setting.

 

Anarie: Oops, I think I found a mistake in my translation! "She is my mother" should be "Nas amillenya"--with a short (unaccented) "a" in "nas".

 

Ista Sharrasi 16/Jul/2006 at 07:35 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Yay! It’s amazing Elenwen! Thank you! I can’t wait to see the rest of it!
Aelindis 16/Jul/2006 at 11:07 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Quote: Originally posted by Elenwen on Sunday, July 16, 2006
One thing that I discovered is that there is no such word as "when" in Quenya, so I used the Sindarin word "ir" (from Hisweloke dictionary) instead.  It is perfectly ok with Quenya sound system, but if someone knows of a Quenya reconstruction for "when", Id rather use it instead.
The attested Quenya word for "when" is r. It is to be found in "Friel’s Song" (LR:63 / LR:72): "r Anarinya qeluva" - "when my Sun faileth".
Anri 17/Jul/2006 at 02:39 AM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5602 Posts: 3153 Joined: 03/Nov/2004
Ooooh, thank you so much, Elenwen! *hugses muchly* looks so beautiful..wish I could translate this stuff myself *g*! Unfortunately, I’ve searched around to see if Theodred has a meaning..and found nothing, I fear, although I think Theoden, which is very close to the name of Theodred, has a meaning...*thinks* I’ll get back to you on this one.

and I know I may be asking much, but, um..I forgot to state I’d need both Quenya and Sindarin translations of the sentences. I’d be eternally grateful to have these both..my own knowledge of the languages, albient I try and learn them, is very poor as of yet.
Elenwen 17/Jul/2006 at 03:55 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Thanks, Aelindis!  I wonder why this word isn’t in Fauskanger’s wordlist...  Perhaps because Firiel’s song isn’t "LotR-style" Quenya.  But this is better than a Sindarin word.

So, Ista, the corrected version of the first verse is (I’ve corrected the long "a" to a short one in "I-am" as well)

Nan erya r Anar nta,           

r ilquen vanwa n.

I ambor quildinqu nar,

I celvar quildinqu nar.

r Isil tula fanyallo,
r Anar nta.

 

And this is how it is stressed (bold letters mark stresses):

 

Nan erya r Anar nta,           

r ilquen vanwa n.

I ambor quildinqu nar,

I celvar quildinqu nar.

r Isil tula fanyallo,

r Anar nta.

 

I will try to translate the second verse soon!

Elenwen 17/Jul/2006 at 05:56 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Ista: Here is a translation of the second verse!  I managed to do it much faster... Practice is good for me!

Later Im alone
When the birds sing to the dawn
And the sky fills with light
Glowing golden heaven from the sky
And the world holds its breath at the beauty
Of the far-off sun

 

San nan erya

r i aiwi linar tenn ra,

Ar i hell clinqua n,

Ar Ambar hauta sya an vaness

Anar vahyo.

 

I used a contraction in "tenn’ ra" because that’s how it was in Elendil’s words when he came to ME; I think it sounds much nicer than "tenna i ra" (until the dawn).

 

A word-for-word translation:

 

Then I-am alone

When the birds are-singing till dawn

And the sky light-full-of is

And World stops to-breathe because-of beauty

Sun far-away-of

 

Would you like to have a complete guide to Quenya pronunciation or is what I wrote before enough for you?

Ista Sharrasi 17/Jul/2006 at 01:34 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
I think I might need the pronunciation - Just write out the poem how I should say it, that should be all I need ^_^ And thank you so much! As soon as I have this all set out side-by-side, I’ll let you all know what language I chose to sing it in
Elenwen 17/Jul/2006 at 03:33 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Ista:  I thought about how to write the poem the way it should be pronounced...  and found out I really can’t.  I considered the International Phonetic Alphabet, but then I know it only as far as English, German and French are concerned; besides, it’s not a standard encoding. I can’t write it the way Harlindon did, it’s just too confusing for me.  So I decided I’d better write a short pronunciation guide (based on Fauskanger’s course).  These rules are always true, no exceptions:

Vowels (have a similar value; long once are just about twice as long; so the real sound is something in between what is given as English equivalent for long and short vowels of the same kind)

 

/a/-like in aisle

/e/-like in end

/i/-like in see

/o/-like in box, but rounder

/u/-like in put, but rounder (or like in soon)

 

Diphtongs:

 

ai-like in aisle

au-like in sour, without the schwa (blurred "e") at the end [saue]

eu-like in so, but the "e" should be more like that in end

iu-like in you

oi-toy

ui-too young

Note that qui is read like kwi!!

Any other groups of vowels are not diphtongs, so they should be pronounced "separately".

 

Consonants

 

c-always k

c, t, p are never aspirated (that is, you don’t add a puff of breath to them), like in accept, its, tips

hl-unvoiced l, please

hr-unvoiced trilled r (found in Portuguese), luckily, rare enough in Quenya

hw-sound like you blow a candle

hy-German ich; unvoiced y

h-in the beginning of a word or between two vowels-English breath h, have

  in the middle of a word [x], like in German auch (not ich), a "h" that you say with your throat tense (sorry, can’t find a better explaination for someone who speaks only English)

l-clear l, let, not dark, call

n-like in king before c, g, qu

  like in new in all other cases

r-always trilled, like in Spanish

s-always like in set, never like in resist

v-very

w-wind; initial-like in vet

y-yes; never a vowel (unlike in Sindarin)

ny, ty-pronounced like new, tune in American English

ly-a very clear l (or French or Spanish l)

nw, gw, qu-n, g, k pronounced with "pouted" lips

nw in the middle of a word-n+w

 

If a consonant is not mentioned here, it is pronouced just like in English.

 

I hope this helped a bit , rather than confused you a lot  Unfortunately, I can find no better way to explain it... 

Elenwen 17/Jul/2006 at 03:35 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Ista: Oh no! I have forgotten to post the second verse of your poem with stresses marked!

 

San nan erya

r i aiwi linar tenn ra,

Ar i hell clinqua n,

Ar Ambar hauta sya an vaness

Anar vahyo.

 

Sorry for posting twice in a row  I should improve on that, really.

 

The third verse is coming soon!

Ista Sharrasi 17/Jul/2006 at 06:08 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003

Lots to know and learn! Hopefully knowing these will aid me in learning more about these two fine languages.

Ista Sharrasi 17/Jul/2006 at 06:28 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003

One more translation, into either Sindarin or Quenya ^_^ I’d like to know what the name "Heidi" is in both languages, if possible. When I went to Behind the Name, this is what came up for it. Thank you much!!

HEIDI

Gender: Feminine

Usage: German, English, Finnish

Pronounced: HIE-dee   [key]

Swiss pet form of ADALHEID. Heidi is the name of the title character in the children’s story by Johanna Spyri.

Dolgon Elatani 17/Jul/2006 at 06:57 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 318 Posts: 220 Joined: 05/Jun/2006
 Hey, I was wondering how to say "I call lightning down from the heavens to destroy my enemys!" in sindarin.
Aelindis 18/Jul/2006 at 03:16 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Ista Sharrasi, as Germanic  Adalheidis is a compound of adal  "noble" and heid  "kind, sort, type", the meaning of Sindarin  arphen ( ar + pen ) "noble (one)" seems rather close.
I don’t know whether appending a diminutive suffix  -eg  ( *arpheneg ) would make sense.
Elenwen 18/Jul/2006 at 06:59 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002
Ista:  What do you think of Tarquen for a Quenya version of this name?  "Tar"-"noble, high" and "quen"-"one" (meaning someone, not number)? Or perhaps, to show that it is a feminine name, Tarwen ("wen"-"maiden").  Or another version-Tariel ("iel"-a suffix meaning "daugter of", hence "daugter of a noble /one/").  While the latter two versions don’t reflect the exact meaning, they may sound better to you, and reflect the gender besides.
Harlindon 18/Jul/2006 at 12:14 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Dolgon Malcor: I’m afraid there isn’t a word for lightning in Sindarin(as far as I know) so one cannot do your translation exactly as you want it. May I suggest something similar, like
I call a storm(of wind) from the heavens to destroy my enemies - eston alagos uin menel an naged ’uid nn [i call a storm(of wind) from-the heaven for slaying enemies my]

Is this along the lines of what you seek? If not, you could reword your phrases without the word lightning and I could work from there. Also helpful to do this and then check it at the translation desk as it would make things go along much quicker. Personally, I don’t mind doing translations from scratch, but it is helpful if you have something to start from.(I dont expect anyone to be able to come up with grammatically perfect elvish(which is quite impossible as there just isn;t enough info to have it be perfect) just to give it a small try, loook up a few words etc.)

Elenwen: It took a very long time to do that pronounciation thingy and I’m sure there are a few innaccuracies in them. (some sounds just can’t be express without going into a long explanation)I found it rather confusing as well So don’t feel liike you are the only one that found attempting  a rather difficult undertaking. I had lots of free time on  my hands.

Ista Sharrasi 18/Jul/2006 at 01:09 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
Aelindis and Elenwen ~ Much thanks! All versions work for me, and I’ll most likely use them all anyways ^_^
Elenwen 19/Jul/2006 at 01:28 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Ista:  It seems I have almost completed the translation of your song!  The last verse was especially hard, as certain words (the most necessary ones, as usual) were apparently never used by Eldar!! That’s the word, "never"!  After (unsuccessful) attempting to find it in the Quenya wordlists I know of, I looked it up in Hisweloke Sindarin dictionary, with the same result.  Having skipped (replaced) it in one line, I found it impossible to do without in the last three!  Then I thought I would make this word myself from a stem, a suffix and a prefix.  Thus I got **moiv--literally something like "not-ever-ly", (the -ly=-v part being a suffix which forms adverbs from adjectives).  If you don’t like it, however, I could re-do the last lines into something like "beauty doesn’t die, it doesn’t change" (as, apparently, Harlindon did). 

I would also very much like to know what people "learned in the noble toungues" think about this reconstruction and whether it is possible to use it.

Harlindon 19/Jul/2006 at 04:01 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Elenwen: I ran into the same problem when I did my version as well.(and used ’it not-changes’ etc. instead as you pointed out). I personally like the way your reconstruction connects with the meaning of the word ’never’ (which really means ’not ever’, rendering your construction perfect word-wise) The sindarin word for ever and the prefix for ’not’ just would have looked strange together so I decided against using that wording,(it would be something like u-ui) and I just used another negative word.(not/un-) As for your construction being grammatically correct, I’m afraid I can’t help you much there, as I know very little about quenya. It seems ok to me, but I really dont know if there are any rules for making compounds/adding prefixes/constructions in Quenya.(I know there are in Sindarin) I believe you are the only Quenya user around lately by the looks of things, so I wouldn’t wait to long for a response.(Tyrhael, Thorsten, and Elhath haven’t really been around lately)
Dolgon Elatani 19/Jul/2006 at 07:05 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 318 Posts: 220 Joined: 05/Jun/2006

Harlindin - Thank you very much, that works too. I just need something to destroy my enemies.

Aelindis 19/Jul/2006 at 10:34 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Elenwen, we have the attested  ullum, again a word from "Friel’s Song" ( "not forever"). It is frequently used to translate  "never", though I have also seen that some translators prefer la oia instead.  
By the way, ullum is in HKF’s wordlist as well as r.

Elenwen 20/Jul/2006 at 04:37 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Thanks again, Aelindis! Strange as it may seem, the English-Quenya version of the wordlist that I have seems to lack some words from the Quenya-English version.  Maybe I should look whether it has been updated...  But anyway, I shall use "la oi" for never, because "oi" is an adverb meaning "ever", whereas "oia" is an adjective meaning "everlasting" (thought it may also be an adverb, but then "la oia" is "everlastingly, which is not quite the same thing; besides, "la oi" sounds better in the poem)

Ista: Now I’ll try to get done with the translation as quickly as possible, but maybe it won’t be very soon, because I am having exams right now

Toyomoto 20/Jul/2006 at 04:29 PM
Forester of Lothlorien Points: 81 Posts: 18 Joined: 26/Jun/2006
May I have a sindarin name in the translation of Toyomoto

~*~ Translation Desk ~*~

You step through an intricately carved arched doorway into the Library of Imladris. Ancient tomes and yellowed parchments are stored with care on shelves that reach to the vaulted ceilings of the long chamber. Special documents are displayed on lecterns. The peaceful hush of the room is occasionally disturbed by the rustling of papers, the faint scratching of quill on parchment, and the sighs of perplexed students seated at the numerous desks.  

In the center of the room is a desk bearing a placard labelled "Translation Desk". You are greeted with a welcoming smile.  

Greetings! How can we help you?

~ Please post what you would like to have translated.
~ Please state what language you would like to have it in.
~ Tengwar transcriptions may also be requested ~ that is the alphabet of Middle-earth.
~ Be patient; translators may not be around to respond right away. Using "please" is nice.
~
Please ask for translations here rather than starting new threads.  
~ If you would like your
name translated, please first look up the meaning of your name at www.behindthename.com and post that meaning here. You will find many names in Quenya here and in Sindarin here.

Some more experienced Language Forum regulars are:
Aelindis ~ Sindarin
Elhath ~ Quenya and Sindarin
Mynegeorn ~ Quenya and Sindarin
Thorond ~ Quenya and Sindarin


Some members who are learning the Languages are:
Laebeth ~ Sindarin

ATTENTION!

Sometimes translations may be overlooked, or not done straight away. We do this in our free time because we have a love of Tolkiens Languages, and because we enjoy translating. This is not a paid job.  Requests for long translations, such as songs or poems, might not be done.

We recommend that you try simple translations (such as single words or names) for yourself, and then if youre uncertain, post it here for us to check over. For Sindarin, use Alcarnarmos Online Dictionary or DragonFlame For Quenya, use Helge Fauskangers Wordlists  *If its not in the dictionaries, then it is not in Tolkiens Elvish.  Please try a synonym or settle for a reconstructed word.

A lot of people ask for phrases that have already been translated! Take a look at Taras Sindarin Phrases before asking.

And lastly, to all people learning Elvish, please try to translate the requests here!  We encourage you, for only by translating and making mistakes can you learn!  If you make a mistake, do not fret - one of the more experienced translators will be glad to point it out and explain it to you. But they will often not translate themselves, for they would rather see you try and learn then they do it!


Desk 108
Desk 107
Desk 106
Desk 105
Desk 104
Desk 103
Desk 102
Desk 101
Desk 100
(Please only start a new thread after 100 posts if you are able to translate)


Le Rois 20/Jul/2006 at 06:06 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 253 Posts: 80 Joined: 20/Jul/2006

Hello! I wanted to add the Sindarin translation of "The king is dead!" into my siggy. This is what I have so far:

I taur [is] gwann!

Any help on this would be appreciated! Thank you.

Harlindon 20/Jul/2006 at 09:18 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Le Rois: Regarding your translation - the word taur means kings, but of a tribe. If you mean king of a region (kingdom) then the word would be aran. Whichever suits your purpose is fine. There are just a few minor grammatical changes that need to be made.
The King is dead - i daur   ’wann [ ’taur’ is
lenited because of the definitive article ’i ’ (the)  and gwann loses the ’g’ for lenition as well because it is an adjective.(and adjectives are usually lenited)] If you were to use ’aran’ it would be i aran ’wann

 i daur ’wann

Harlindon 20/Jul/2006 at 09:36 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Dolgon: You’re welcome. I’m glad I was able to help you destroy your enemies  by supplying you with the words to call a violent storm
Aelindis 21/Jul/2006 at 01:49 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Toyomoto: In order to get a Sindarin translation you are to tell us what your name means in English.

BTW, copying the header of the thread is unnecessary.

 

Tokugawa Ieyas 22/Jul/2006 at 09:45 AM
Miner of Mordor Points: 853 Posts: 783 Joined: 19/May/2006

Hello I dont know if this thread is still running or not but I need a few words in Sindarin

1.Black Numenorean

2. I am a descendant of the great people of Numenor!

3. My grandfather was one of the kings men

4.  You know not of what you speak!

Thanks!X(

Harlindon 22/Jul/2006 at 12:25 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Tokugawa: This thread is always up and running and I check it a couple times a day I would tranlsate:
Black Numenorean: Dnedan vorn
I am a descendant of the great people of Numenor! - Im in e-gwaith dhaer Numenor [i-am (a) descendant (of)the people great (of) Numenor]
My Grandfather was one of the kings of men - i adar en adar nn e aran edain [the father of father my he (was) a king (of) men]
You know not of what you speak! - -istach uin naid pedich! [You do not know of-the things you speak]

Do you also need pronunciation?

Tokugawa Ieyas 22/Jul/2006 at 01:12 PM
Miner of Mordor Points: 853 Posts: 783 Joined: 19/May/2006

Thanks much Harlindon! I actually had a few more sentences I wanted but I thought that this thread was down or something. So here they are if you dont mind..

1. I do not fear you

2. My mother was of elvish kind

3.I was taught how to speak elvish when I was young

4. I wish that the the land of Numenor could rise again in power

 Thanks again and no I do not need any pronunciation. And need it in Sindarin again pleaseX(

Harlindon 22/Jul/2006 at 07:08 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Tokugawa: Sure, here is how I would translate -
I do not fear you - -’oston le
My mother was of elvish kind - naneth nn elleth [ mother my  she (was) (an) elf maiden]
I was taught to speak elvish when I was young - nnen istui i-peded edhellen ne nth nn [I was learned the-speaking elvish in youth my] or you could have something like this - pennin edhellen ne nth nn [i spoke elvish in youth my] Which I personally prefer because it doesn’t use the verb "to be" which is somewhat controversial and usually left out. Whatever yworks for you is fine though
I wish that the land of Numenor could rise again in power - iest nn Numenor ad-eriatha na tr [wish my Numenor again-it-will-rise to power]

Anri 23/Jul/2006 at 02:04 AM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5602 Posts: 3153 Joined: 03/Nov/2004
Heya all! (again *g*)
Elenwen did SUCH a good job with the Quenyan translation, and I am really grateful for it! *hugses Elenwen muchly*

I recieved a note, however, that I forgot to also include a Sindarin translation of the same wording (its about a story I’m writting, no worries, I am taking no credits for the translations, but properly crediting you all! I’d be too ashamed to credit sthing that is so wonderful, and not mine)..so, if someone could be so kind as to translate the same sentences into Sindarin, I’d be more than grateful.

I include the sentences again, just so no one has to search for any older of my posts.
~What do you speak of?
~My true parents are known to me.
~One is dead, and the other lusts for his power.
~She is my mother.
~Yes. And...Theodred of Rohan is my father.

thank ye muchly!
Arothir 23/Jul/2006 at 06:16 AM
Captain of Dol Amroth Points: 5022 Posts: 5104 Joined: 25/Jul/2003

If you could please translate the following words into both quenya and sindarin it would be most appreciated

Phantom
Ghost
Shadow

Harlindon 23/Jul/2006 at 07:07 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Anarie Hecil-Quen: I would be happy to help you. I don’t see any need to give me credit or anything, I just do this for fun/ to learn and practice. If you really want to though, I guess you can. I would translate:
What do you speak of? - O man pedich?  [of what you speak?]
My true parents are known to me -thann edhryn nn istannen sai anim.* [true parents my known they to me] edhryn = plural odhron
One is dead and the other lusts for his power - ten, nana nn, gwann ah ada maelui a thr r[one, mother my, (is) dead and father(no word for ’other’) (is) lustful for power his]
She is my mother - Se / E naneth/nana/emil nn [she mother my] (any of these three words for mother may be used, as well as either pronoun for ’she’)
Yes. And... Theodred of Rohan is my father -  Mae. Ah... Theodred Rohan ada nn. [yes. and... Theodred rohan father my]

* This is loosely based on David Salo’s tranlsation for the movies in Lorien. cf. "Aragorn en Dunedain istannen le ammen"....

I hope this helps

Harlindon 23/Jul/2006 at 07:16 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Arohir: Sorry I forgot to include you in my post I’m afraid there is no specific word for phantom or ghost in Sindarin, but may I suggest a few other words?
Shadow - duath,  (cast by sunlight) morchant,  (dim light) daem daew, gwath, muil,  (shadowed) hall
Perhaps instead of ghost or phantom, ’dead person?’ - fern, gorth or’departed spirit’ - mn or spirit - fae, faer

Elenwen 23/Jul/2006 at 07:39 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Arohir:  Here is the translation of the words into Quenya:

Phantom:  fair ("phantom, disembodied spirit, when seen as a pale shape").
Ghost:manu ("departed spirit") or ala ("spirit whose natural state is to exiost without physical body").
Shadow:  lo or laim (cast by an object), lmin (shade), huin (gloom, darkness).

Toyomoto 24/Jul/2006 at 09:26 AM
Forester of Lothlorien Points: 81 Posts: 18 Joined: 26/Jun/2006
My name means "Dragon of the Water" Harlindon and Aelindis.
Toyomoto 24/Jul/2006 at 09:38 AM
Forester of Lothlorien Points: 81 Posts: 18 Joined: 26/Jun/2006

How do u say Boromir in Sindarin?

 

 

Aelindis 24/Jul/2006 at 11:06 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Toyomoto: There is the attested word limlug meaning "fish-dragon", "sea-serpent".
Otherwise, the word for "dragon" is amlug, "water" is nen, thus Amlug Nen would mean "Dragon of the Water".

Though there are slightly different explanations of the development of the name Boromir in Tolkien’s writings (cf. LotR, Appendix F; LR:353), its meaning in Sindarin is "enduring jewel".

Anri 25/Jul/2006 at 07:13 AM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5602 Posts: 3153 Joined: 03/Nov/2004
Harlind-MO-n ~ thank ye muchly much!
Gwyndelen 25/Jul/2006 at 07:19 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 508 Posts: 269 Joined: 23/May/2006
I f someone could help me please, I am wondering if the name "Annalin"  correctly portrays the meaning "gift of song".  Would there be other name possibilities that would have similar meaning?  Also, what might be the possibilities of  names meaning "gift of healing song"?  I am having trouble finding any words or prefixes for the word "heal", "healer" or "healing".  Any ideas would be appreciated.  Thank you in advance for your help.
Nieriel Eleniel 25/Jul/2006 at 08:12 AM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006

Hi,
I’m trying to translate my little sister’s name, Sabrina, int quenya and Sindarin. behindthename.com gives the meaning as From the name of the Severn, a river in Wales, which was originally named Habren. In Celtic legend Sabrina was the name of a princess who was drowned in the Severn. Supposedly the river was named for her, but it is more likely that her name was actually derived from that of the river, which seems rather untranslatable, but many other sites give it as from the border, which is the meaning I’ll try to translate.

Sindarin:  from: o, od border: edrain
so. odedrain, odedrainwen to make it feminine?

Quenya: from: ho, va,var, and ending -llo border: rna

So, horna(wen), varna(wen) or rnallo(wen?) ?

They don’t really sound great. I’d be really gratefull it if someone could provide a better translation, with the same meaning or a different one.

Harlindon 25/Jul/2006 at 08:48 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Gwyndlelen: In which language? (Quenya or Sindarin). If its Sindarin(which I don’t believe it is), then no, it doesn’t correctly portray the meaning ’gift of song’ because in Sindarin, we use the words ann/ant for gift and glr / lind / laer for song; Which would give you ant lind/glr However, this coudl translate as "gift-song" as well so I would suggest ant-en-glr . (gift of the song)
For ’gift of the healing song’ I would suggest in Sindarin - Ant en-glr nestad(ren) [gift of the song (of) healing] (If you want it to say gift of the song of healing keep the ’ren" at the end)
 Here are some useful healing words  - nestad = healing
- nestathon = I will heal you
- nesto! = Heal!
- i ’lr nestatha le = The song will heal you
- nestadren - of healing

I know that in Quenya, the word for healer is etelehtar pl. etelehtari
Does this help?

Nieriel Eleniel: For the Sindarin translation, I would suggest rather uinedrain because uin means ’from the’ and fits the meaning a little more clearly. You could also make it feminine by using uinedrainiel. If you really dont like the way it sounds you could have - uinglniel / uinglnwen or uinrwiel .(which is just substituting edrain with other words for border) Good try though I don’t know about the Quenya translation though, I only do Sindarin.

Aelindis 25/Jul/2006 at 09:58 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

> uinedrain(iel) : As edrain is already a compound ( ed + rain ) adding a second prefix does not make sense to me.
> uinglniel : gln means "hem, border (of textiles and other hand-made things)".

 

Harlindon 25/Jul/2006 at 10:38 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Thanks, Aelindis. So uinrain and 86 uinglaniel

Tokugawa Ieyas 25/Jul/2006 at 12:09 PM
Miner of Mordor Points: 853 Posts: 783 Joined: 19/May/2006

Hey may I have some more translations?

1.Ride Gwiel ride!
2.Watch your words!
3.I know some words of elvish healing

Thanks again you are great!

Harlindon 25/Jul/2006 at 12:22 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Tokugawa: Sure, I would translate:
1. ride Gwiel Ride! - Noro lim Gwiel noro lim!
2. Watch your words -
Tiro bith ln!
3.
I know some words of elvish healing - Iston bith edhellen an nestadren [I know words elvish for healing]

For some elvish healing words, take a look at my the post before my last.

Aelindis 25/Jul/2006 at 06:15 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

>  1. ride Gwiel Ride! - Noro lim Gwiel noro lim!

From Hammond & Scull’s ’Reader’s Companion’ ( p.195 ) we know that noro lim means "run swift".

( > uinrain, > uinglaniel : IMHO,  "From-the-Border", "From-the-Hem-Daughter" are rather awkward names, but that’s a matter of taste.)  


Harlindon 25/Jul/2006 at 06:27 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Aelindis: I was aware that "noro lim" means run swift but wasn’t aware of a word for "ride" so used the phrase from FotR. Do you know of a word?
I also don’t like the way name ’from teh border’ seems, but that’s what she gave for the english translation of "Sabrina" Don’t know of something better to use....
Gwyndelen 26/Jul/2006 at 05:09 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 508 Posts: 269 Joined: 23/May/2006
Quote: Originally posted by Harlind-MO-n on Tuesday, July 25, 2006

Gwyndlelen: In which language? (Quenya or Sindarin). If its Sindarin(which I dont believe it is), then no, it doesnt correctly portray the meaning gift of song because in Sindarin, we use the words ann/ant for gift and glr / lind / laer for song; Which would give you ant lind/glr However, this coudl translate as "gift-song" as well so I would suggest ant-en-glr . (gift of the song)
For gift of the healing song I would suggest in Sindarin - Ant en-glr nestad(ren) [gift of the song (of) healing] (If you want it to say gift of the song of healing keep the ren" at the end)


Thank you Harlind-MO-n. for the info, it does help.  I was indeed looking for the Sindarin tranlation.  I have more questions on the translation though.  I understand from what you said that "ann" was also a word used for gift and "lind" a word for song, so could those two words be combined to make ann-en-lind and still mean gift of song?  It would come closer to what I had in mind as far as how I wanted the name to sound.  I do like the idea of adding "nestadren" to the name.   Thanks again.
Harlindon 26/Jul/2006 at 07:01 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Gwyndelen: Yes, I think the the compound you prefer is ok 
Aelindis 26/Jul/2006 at 07:35 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
AFAIK the Sindarin word for "gift" rather seems to be ant . (Are you referring to VT45:5 ?)
Anyway, the genitive article would be shortened: e-lind.
Harlindon 26/Jul/2006 at 08:21 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Aelindis: Thanks for pointing that out. I don’t receive Vinyar Tengwar so I thought that ann and ant could be used interchangably. Is this like thann and not thenin being the word for true 
Gwyndelen: Your name should rather read -  ant-e-lind instead of ann-en-lind.

Aelindis 26/Jul/2006 at 09:49 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Harlindon: No, this one is different from **thenin > thann.  VT45:5 gives the additional information (about  ANA-, Etym:348) that "N ant  ’gift’ was originally written as ann." 
But why did you assume that ann would be a valid form?
Harlindon 26/Jul/2006 at 10:03 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
David Salo I use his book rather frequently, because of its index of Sindarin-to-English vice-versa sections. He lists ann as coming form the root AN so I believed it to be valid. I’m looking into getting VT. I’m just really behind without it.
Aelindis 26/Jul/2006 at 10:24 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Honestly, this is one of the major flaws of the ’Gateway’, that the words in the Sindarin-English glossary are not  referenced properly. If you want to be sure, you will always have to look it up elsewhere. 
(There might be reasons in favour of ann, though.)
Harlindon 26/Jul/2006 at 10:31 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
I know! It is so annoying. He cites nothing unless he feels like it To quote a critic(who was right about this) "Salo writes about Sindarin as he thinks it should be and not as Tolkien intended"  I got it because at the time it seemed like a great book. That is until I started reading through such sections. Citation is one of the most important things needed in a book like that and he decides to ignore in many cases. The book can be rather useful in some places though. (Although you cant quite be sure without looking it up somewhere else)
turgon1990 26/Jul/2006 at 10:47 AM
New Soul Points: 205 Posts: 37 Joined: 14/Jan/2006
notice how that there are so many laguages but the dwarfs dont have there own
Harlindon 26/Jul/2006 at 10:49 AM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
turgon1990: The dwarves actually do have their own language known as Khuzdul. (cf.ardalambion)
Aelindis 26/Jul/2006 at 11:07 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Harlindon, to my shame I have to admit that I purchased the ’Gateway’ although I was pretty sure beforehand that the negative reviews by some very trustworthy people would be absolutly correct.
Harlindon 26/Jul/2006 at 12:42 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Aelindis:It’s a good read, he knows what he’s talking about most of the time; I find it interesting to compare some of his theories to people like Thorsten and Helge’s.  If just can’t be relied on for scholarly work most of the time
Tinuwen 26/Jul/2006 at 03:14 PM
Herald of Imladris Points: 217 Posts: 194 Joined: 10/Apr/2006
       Greetings, everyone....
  If you are free, would you help me find a nice Sindarian name for my baby girl, please?...her real name is Haala ( means halo, or the gentle light which surrounds the moon,).. can it be lovley to pronounce?....  thank you very, very, much..
Nieriel Eleniel 26/Jul/2006 at 04:33 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
Harlind-MO-n and Aelindis, thank you very much! I’m sorry about the meaning, but it was the best I could find. Thank you again!
Tinuwen, I don’t know a word for halo, but moonlight would be Ithilgalad, I think, if that helps. I’m sure someone else can provide a better translation, but I’m trying to learn.
Harlindon 26/Jul/2006 at 06:09 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Tinuwen: I would suggest something short and simple to be used as an everyday name. For example, aragorn was called Estel in Imladris. If you are looking for somehting that is sheerly lovely to pronounce, and don’t mind te meaning much, you could have, Dannas (fall, autumn) elleth (elf maiden) elloth (a single flower) galadh (tree) galas (growth, plant) gladhad (laughter laughing) glawar (sunlight, gold, radiance of Laurelin) gloriel (golden shining with golden light) gwathel (sister) heledh (glass) idhren (pondering wise thoughtful) lachenn (flame-eyed a noldo) lasgalen (having green leaves, green of leaf) Luithien )enchantress) meldis (friend (f.) miriel (jewel-like sparkling like a jewel) mithril (grey brilliance) neladel (ringing bells) Sairnas (pile of stones) tawaren (wooden) trenarn (account, tale)  These are just words that I think sound "lovely" for a girls name.(by sound, not meaning) [My personal favorite words in Sindarin are "Calardan" and "ennas" and heledh"

For meaning, maybe Ithilgalad(ithil for short) as Nieriel suggested.Or something like - Daughter (iell, sell) Princess (riel ) lady ( bessain, bassoneth, brennil , heryn) queen (Bereth, ran) etc.

If you want somehting specific, ask for it

Tinuwen 27/Jul/2006 at 01:28 AM
Herald of Imladris Points: 217 Posts: 194 Joined: 10/Apr/2006
               Nieirel Eleineil: Thanks alot.. I have always loved the name Gilgalad, but i feel its a boys name!!..and so i feel toward Ithilgalad..but thanks again..
               Harlind-MO-in :much much thanks...all of youre names all so sweet..  I loved Gloriel  the most.......but .will Galadriel mean: light princesess?..
NonigaX 27/Jul/2006 at 03:31 AM
Vagrant of Minas Tirith Points: 49 Posts: 23 Joined: 27/Jul/2006

does anyone know any dwarvish?

Elenwen 27/Jul/2006 at 06:45 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

TheWhiteDwarf:  It is actually hard to learn to really speak Dwarvis (which is actually called Khuzdul, with a circumflex over the last "u"), as there are very few words (known to us) in it.  Tolkien made it "un-aesthetic" (opposite to Elvish, for example), and so did not like it much himself.  A wordlist of Khuzdul, along with some interesting information on it, can be found at Ardalambion.

Tinuwen: Galadriel actually means "maiden crowned with a garland of light".  This refers to her hair, I believe.

Nieriel Eleniel 27/Jul/2006 at 07:34 AM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
Tinuwen, you’re welcome, I’m glad it was reasonably accurate.
How would you say midnight in Sindarin? enedfuin?
Gwyndelen 27/Jul/2006 at 07:47 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 508 Posts: 269 Joined: 23/May/2006

Harlindon and Aelindis

I am afraid you guys lost me in your discussion of whether "ann" could be correctly used as a part of the name or not.  My original source for the name  "Annalin" came from the Silmarillion, Appendix IX, Elements in Quenya and Sindarin Names.   There, "anna" is listed as meaning " ’gift’ in Annatar, Melian, Yavanna; the same stem in Andor ’Land of Gift’" , so I do not understand why it would be incorrect to use it as Ann-e-lind as opposed to Ant-e-lind.  Can you explain, please?

Aelindis 27/Jul/2006 at 09:00 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Gwyndelen, in a way, I have anticipated your question, as Ann-e-lind  really sounds much nicer, and besides, to me the matter is not entirely clear.
In the Appendix to the Silmarillion the entries are not arragend systematically by Sindarin and Quenya words and names, as stated by Chr. Tolkien.  
The CE root of the mentioned names is not anna, but ANA- from which several Quenya and Noldorin (> Sindarin) words originate. The Q word for "gift" is anna, the N (> S) word is ant. (Etym:348)
Now the names Annatar and Yavanna are clearly Quenya.
Melian sems to be adapted from Q Melyanna, cf. Silm. Appendix - mel .
Similarly, Andor seems to be a short form of Q Andor.

Of course you could try to find a Q name with anna. Otherwise you could decide in favour of Ann-e-lind . I do not think that it is "wrong".  

 

Gwyndelen 27/Jul/2006 at 11:27 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 508 Posts: 269 Joined: 23/May/2006
Aelindis,  thanks for explaing that to me.    Based on all your info, I think I will go with Annelind then.  However, now I am curious, what would the Quenyan equivilent be?  Thanks again for your patience and great explanations, they are appreciated.
Aelindis 27/Jul/2006 at 12:34 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Gwyndelen, firstly, please note that my favourite language is Sindarin and that my knowledge of Quenya is rather limited. But I believe that I can answer your question. 
From the examples  Annatar , "Lord of Gifts", lit. "Gift-lord", and Melyanna "dear gift" I assume that within a compound name "Gift of Song" / "Song-gift" the word order would be lind + anna , thus :  Lindanna. 

 

Elenwen 27/Jul/2006 at 01:05 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Ista: It seems I am finally done with the translation! Here is the third verse:

Im alone
When the sun rises high
And I hide my eyes from the glare
The light can be too strong
But the beauty never dims
And as the sun sets again
The world darkens, becomes a friend
But the beauty never dies,
It never changes.
It never changes.

 

Nan erya

r Anar orta trav,

Ar nurtan hendunya ho cl va.

Cala pol acca taura na,

Mal vaness a oial.

Ar r Anar nta ata,

Ambar topaina mrenen ar nilda n.

Mal vaness fira l oi,

Ahyas l oi,

Ahyas l oi.

 

And here is a word-for word translation:

 

I-am alone

When Sun is-rising high-ly

And I-am-hiding eyes-my from light too-great

Light can too strong to-be

But beauty is (exists) forever

And when Sun is-setting again

World covered darkness-by and friendly is

But beauty dies never

It-changes never

It-changes never

 

I have changed it a bit, as you see.  I hope it’s ok.  I’ll post the stressed version a bit later.

Elenwen 27/Jul/2006 at 02:08 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1452 Posts: 695 Joined: 31/Mar/2002

Ista: Here is the stressed version of the third verse of your poem (bold letters denote stresses, as usually):

Nan erya

r Anar orta trav,

Ar nurtan hendunya ho cl va.

Cala pol acca taura na,

Mal vaness a oial.

Ar r Anar nta ata,

Ambar topaina mrenen ar nilda n.

Mal vaness fira l oi,

Ahyas l oi,
Ahyas l oi.

 

I am not sure, however, that the infinitive for "to be" should be "na" (it is rather the form for imperative or subjunctive).  If someone knows what it should be, I would be grateful if you let me know.

Gwyndelen 27/Jul/2006 at 08:28 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 508 Posts: 269 Joined: 23/May/2006

Aelindis, thank you for your translation for the Quenyan  version of Annelind.  It is very pretty, but I  like Annelind better. 

Harlindon, thank you for your input as well.  It is appreciated.

Nieriel Eleniel 28/Jul/2006 at 08:10 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
What’s the Sindarin word for midnight? I ended up with enedfuin, but it doesn’t sound right.
Nieriel Eleniel 29/Jul/2006 at 05:06 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006

This is an attempt to translate Janice, meaning "God is gracious" , and Lara, meaning "shining" , into Sindarin and Quenya.
Janice: Sindarin: the closest thing I can find to gracious is milui, meaning kind.
               Quenya: raina
Lara: Sindarin: shine: sla
          
Quenya: shine: cala- , silma
Any corrections would be very welcome!

LadyArwen37 30/Jul/2006 at 12:21 PM
Herald of Imladris Points: 323 Posts: 462 Joined: 09/Oct/2003

Suilaid mellyn...i eneth nin Ameria... Sooo...I need a little translation...I began learning Sindarin about 3 years ago...but wasn’t able to keep up with it with school, working, and having a baby, but now I’m back into it and I need: Live, Laugh, Love translated into Sindarin. I got a Cuia, Gladha-, mela-. I also need to have these properly translated in to Tengwar...I’ve been to many different sites to try to translate these words into tengwar...but I don’t really trust any of the sites except this one. Thanks...I would love to hear back from someone.  

The Spork Man 30/Jul/2006 at 01:07 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1340 Posts: 3398 Joined: 29/Jul/2004
Is it possible to get something translated to English here? Because I have a bit of text in Tengwar transcript, and I would love to know what it says. The link is here: http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f346/krazymonkey1/2789a845.jpg
Please and thank you for any help.
Harlindon 30/Jul/2006 at 08:22 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006
Hang on people, I hope to get all these done soon.(unless someone beats me to it)
Aelindis 30/Jul/2006 at 11:52 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Spork Of Doom, the word is: Fernando , but the Tengwar spelling is not correct. (Poor old F. Torres!)
Tinu 31/Jul/2006 at 01:19 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1416 Posts: 559 Joined: 30/Apr/2005
Why, Aelindis - dont you think that someone might have developed a (very special) Tehtar-Mode for writing Spanish? *g*
We have already seen so many bad examples for German - I wouldnt be surpised.
Aelindis 31/Jul/2006 at 01:54 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

>Why, Aelindis - dont you think that someone might have developed a (very special) Tehtar-Mode for writing Spanish? *g*

Quite possible, Tinu. As for me, I particularly enjoy the o-tehta dangling midair.


Tinu 31/Jul/2006 at 05:42 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1416 Posts: 559 Joined: 30/Apr/2005
>Quite possible, Tinu. As for me, I particularly enjoy the o-tehta dangling midair.

Perhaps he ran out of time, before the tatoo could be brought to an end. Maybe he will have it completed by a vowel-carrier till the next Worldcup... (Then it still will be wrong, but at least the poor diacritic thing wont be obliged to hang there around without purpose.)
Ill go more for the Nmen-Ando - combination, I think.
Aredhriel 31/Jul/2006 at 09:18 AM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2724 Posts: 1593 Joined: 31/May/2005

Once again, I’m in need of you awesome peeps to translate some words/phrases for me into Sindarin or Quenya (if it’s possible, then I would like to have both). Here’s the phrases I need:

Memory’s wrath
Moon Shadow or
Shadow of the Moon

Many thanks in advance for all of your help!  

The Spork Man 31/Jul/2006 at 11:28 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1340 Posts: 3398 Joined: 29/Jul/2004
Aelindis: Thanks! I always thought it said El Nino Torres...but that just goes to show how bad my translation skills are.
LadyArwen37 31/Jul/2006 at 01:29 PM
Herald of Imladris Points: 323 Posts: 462 Joined: 09/Oct/2003
  Can somebody help me with my translations?? to see if I got them correctly?
Harlindon 31/Jul/2006 at 01:53 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

LadyArwen37:  I would rather use cuio, gladho, melo if you seek the imperative. The ones you gave are just  the stems. I hesitate to give you the tengwar, because most of the time, the font just shows up as a bunch of numbers here. I’ll try to get it to you though,
Aredhriel: I would transalate:
 
Memory’s wrath - ruith en rn [anger of-the remembrance] There is no word for memory as far as I know.
Moon Shadow - ithil dhath
Nieriel: enedfuin seems alright to me, although compounds isn’t exactly my srong spot.

Magradhaid 01/Aug/2006 at 11:40 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
I don’t know about -df- in compounds; without scanning a wordlist for instances what about perfuin "divide in middle/half" + "deep night"? It means essentially the same thing.

Elenwen, am I wrong in thinking it would be hendunya instead?
Lariel Sedryn 03/Aug/2006 at 08:20 AM
Prison Guard of Mirkwood Points: 2204 Posts: 3358 Joined: 16/Jul/2004
Okay, I don’t know if this is the right place to come, but I need some help with a Tengwar translation. I want to get a Tengwar tattoo, but I need a translation first and thought tis may be the place to get help with that...
Unfortunately my computer sometimes does not show the Tengwar script, but maybe there is another way to recieve the translation.

If it’s possible could I get the following translated into Sindarin?


-strength
-soul
-courage
-spirit

Now some people have told me that the Tengwar translations may look better with the translation from English, so I was wondering if I would be able to get both, the Sindarin and the English translated into Tengwar. Sorry to be a bother! I just didn’t know where else to find help...For the Tengwar itself, could I get it done in a version that would look good as a tattoo? Like, I don’t think the Tengwar script would look right...and if you need my e-mail address just look at my profile...Thanks again!
Nieriel Eleniel 03/Aug/2006 at 07:29 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006

Thank you, harlindon and Tyrhael!
Lariel De Mein:

strength: bellas (bodily strength),  t (muscle, sinew, vigour, physical strength)
courage: caun, gorn (valour)
spirit: faer, or root fea (although that might be quenya)
I don’t know about soul, though.

Lariel Sedryn 03/Aug/2006 at 09:18 PM
Prison Guard of Mirkwood Points: 2204 Posts: 3358 Joined: 16/Jul/2004
Thank you Nieriel! That is most helpful! Would you by any chance be able to translate those into Tengwar? For that would be what I truely need...or anyone else who can help...Thanks again!
Nieriel Eleniel 05/Aug/2006 at 05:00 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
sorry, Lariel De Mein, I have no idea of Tengwar. I expect someone else can help you with that.
Aelindis 06/Aug/2006 at 12:47 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Lariel De Mein, I have sent you the transcription of the Sindarin words via e-mail. 
In order to write the English words with Tengwar you would want an "English mode". As I personally hardly ever use an English Tengwar mode, someone else will have to help you there.

 

Alassiel - na 07/Aug/2006 at 11:57 AM
Tween of the Shire Points: 55 Posts: 18 Joined: 24/Jul/2006
hi, i was wondering if you give me the translation for ’thank you’ in quena, is it possible as well if you tell me how to say it, as i am hopless at saying elvish words. by the way, how did you learn to speak these languages as i have hoped to learn them my self but can not find the means of teaching my self! are there books that teach u? thanks, it would be great to hear from you! thanks for using up ur spare time! 
Nurbor 08/Aug/2006 at 03:12 PM
Mentor of Lothlorien Points: 11725 Posts: 11998 Joined: 11/Jun/2003

Quenya Cawin imb immo

I believe these words slung together as such roughly come out to say I bow to my innerself but i would like one of you fine langauge artists to double check me.  Thank you muchly in advance.

inafadingcrown 08/Aug/2006 at 10:48 PM
Farmer of the Shire Points: 424 Posts: 95 Joined: 08/Aug/2006

Hello!

If anyone could translate "Only God can judge me." in to Quenya/tengwar alphabet I would be much appreciated.

PS - "God" would probably have to replaced as "Eru"... but ya’ll probably already know that.

Aelindis 09/Aug/2006 at 03:40 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Nurbor, you are mixing up words of totally different date of origin. The phonology of Qenya  cawin (kawin) "I bow" (LT1) does not go with later Quenya phonlogy. immo " ’same one’, self, general reflexive" (VT47) belongs to Tolkiens later writings.
Furthermore, in a phrase like "I bow to someone" the dative (or allative?) would probably be needed. The use of imb seems also questionable to me.
I don’t know enough Quenya to translate your sentence by myself, and moreover, I don’t even understand what "I bow to my innerself" is supposed to mean in English.

Nurbor 10/Aug/2006 at 12:08 PM
Mentor of Lothlorien Points: 11725 Posts: 11998 Joined: 11/Jun/2003
Aelindis-And therein is my weakness with Middle Earth languages, we can only go off of what is seen in the dictionaries given to us, so we typically try to put our phrase together without help first, then post what seemed like it worked and see what you wonderfully capable language artists can do to make our rough draft better.  The original of where i got the phrase was not in English but rather Sanksrit, and I thought i’d be fun and try to put it into Quenya as it’s what Nurbor the character knew from the get go, and that high lost language of the elves.  In sanskrit it’s Om Namah Shivaya, in English it can be translated "I honor my inner self" "I bow to my inner self" etc.  I can break down each word effectively if that’d be of help, or if someone else who knows more than both of us sees it, they could add their sage opinion as well and solve the equation for us.
Magradhaid 11/Aug/2006 at 05:37 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Nurbor: I see what you are trying to say, and I might try Cavin immon, though Aelindis is correct about the age of that verb. Perhaps one might use the stem HAN- ’to add to, honour’ [VT43:14]; after reading Elfling I would use #hanta- in the form ’to honour’ (as was suggested), rather than ’thank’, as so many have used. I see no problem with ’Thanksgiving’ Eruhantal meaning ’giving honour to Eru’.

So, then, perhaps Hantan immo ’I honour myself’.

What do you think about that usage of #hanta-, Aelindis?
Magradhaid 11/Aug/2006 at 05:52 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Inafadingcrown:

Perhaps Er Eru lerta namitan ’Only God is free to judge me’. In the tengwar I would write that as such:

inafadingcrown 12/Aug/2006 at 07:36 PM
Farmer of the Shire Points: 424 Posts: 95 Joined: 08/Aug/2006

Tyrhael :I really appreciate it thank you very much!

inafadingcrown 12/Aug/2006 at 08:31 PM
Farmer of the Shire Points: 424 Posts: 95 Joined: 08/Aug/2006
Just a quick question: I’m not very good with any form of Elvish but can "haryea" or perhaps maybe the stem "harya" in another form beused in place of "lerta"? I was just curious and wanted to test my knowledge...
Magradhaid 12/Aug/2006 at 10:51 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
inafadingcrown: No, harya means ’is possessing’ and harya means ’possesses’.

Aelindis: After what’s happened, Sii’ lye ilya ilquenuva i’lammen en’Tolkien nan’ tanya tel’Mithrim... Umarth ar’amarth! (Don’t take me seriously; in Sindarin that’s something like ’Si mn phain -beditha i lam Tolkien dan den Gwaith Mithren.
Aelindis 14/Aug/2006 at 12:23 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Tyrhael: Cuio i Rochir veren anann! Dartho elvellyn i phedir i laim edhellin! (I chyth ist arnediad, a nae, hebin estel dithen anim.) Le hannon* ’ni phith ln!

*hannon: I’m well aware that this might be rather grelvish already.
Regarding the meaning of Q #hanta-: It seems possible, but of course I do not know for certain. (The meaning:  "I thank myself" would be sort of weird.) 

Lady Leafra Elatani 14/Aug/2006 at 10:10 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 751 Posts: 1141 Joined: 19/Jun/2006
What is Little Leaf in the Quenya language
Magradhaid 14/Aug/2006 at 11:49 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Leafra: I would translate that as Nincilass or Ncalass, though it would be ninc lass or nca lass if you wanted it as two separate words. If you were using it as a name I think shortening it to Nincilas or Ncalas would be fine if you so wished, though it would be harder to identify the gender that way.
Lady Leafra Elatani 14/Aug/2006 at 12:01 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 751 Posts: 1141 Joined: 19/Jun/2006
so which one is the female and which ones the male. I was going to use it along the lines of a nickname for my character.
Magradhaid 14/Aug/2006 at 04:49 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Then I’d suggest using one of the first two, with the -(s).
Lady Leafra Elatani 14/Aug/2006 at 08:28 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 751 Posts: 1141 Joined: 19/Jun/2006
Ncalass I am guessing is female and the other is male am I right because I am looking for the female verson.
Magradhaid 14/Aug/2006 at 08:56 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Nincilass and Ncalass can both be used for a female; there’s more than one word for ’little’. (i.e. ninc and nca).
Elhath 14/Aug/2006 at 11:57 PM
Master of Isengard Points: 438 Posts: 225 Joined: 20/Dec/2004
Tyrhael et al: For the record, Quenya actually has diminutive morphemes for such name/noun forming => lassell, and maybe also lassenc.
Magradhaid 15/Aug/2006 at 01:55 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
D’oh! I knew I was getting rusty, but that rusty?
Radovan 15/Aug/2006 at 02:52 PM
Youth of Imladris Points: 47 Posts: 14 Joined: 09/Apr/2006

Please i need translation on sindarian next few phrases:

1: I love you, my dear.

2: Welcome dear friend!

3: Greetings old friend, long time no see!

4: Is there no one else?

5: I will gather all who are loyal to me and my god, and I will lead them to battle and win!

Helle 15/Aug/2006 at 04:53 PM
Elfling of Lothlorien Points: 24 Posts: 2 Joined: 10/Aug/2006

Could you translate

*nice to see you once agian!

*to you my love

*I do not want to make a spectical of myself!

Harlindon 15/Aug/2006 at 08:17 PM
Soldier of Mordor Points: 1899 Posts: 1650 Joined: 17/Apr/2006

Radovan: I would translate -
I love you my dear - melon le, meleth nn. [i love you love my] (I’m a bit unsure about whether mell, muin, and mail  (dear) are adjectives, nouns, or can be used interchangably...)
Welcome dear friend - Mae tollen mellon vuin [mell-come friend dear] (once again, a bit unsure on this)
Greetings old friend, long time no see - Suilad mellon iaur, -chennin le an idhrinn laew! [greetings friend-old, not-i-have-seen/ i-saw you for years many]
Is there no one else? -  g-den dan hen / sin ? [no-one but this / these?]
I will gather all who are loyal to me and my god, and will lead them to battle and win! - erthathon hedryn bn enni a ’ni eru nn ah tegithon di na dhagor a tr! [i-will-unite faith-ones all to me and to the Eru/god my and i will lead them to battle and victory]

If you have any problems with or comments about these, please speak up!

Helle: Hello and welcome to the plaza! I hope you greatly enjoy your time here! I would tranlsate -
Nice to see you once again! (as a general welcome) - Suilad mellon! [greetings friend]
Nice to see you once again! (literally) - Naw glas nn ad-ceni le! [its is joy my again-to-see you]
To you my love - Alle meleth nn [for you love my]
I do not want to make a spectacle of myself! - -anron thia sui dhollost [not i desire to seem like (a) fool/empty head.]

Magradhaid 16/Aug/2006 at 09:44 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
>melon le, meleth nn
Rather Le melin, mell nn. nn is ’tear, wet, or waters’ whereas nn is ’my’, le goes before the verb, and many believe mel- to be like gar-: gr (ml), garant (melant) but gerin and **melin. Also, meleth is a noun, but the wrong one - it’s abstract and describes the emotion rather than a person towards whom that emotion is concentrated.

Glaew mean ’salve’ and I fail to see how it can be used here. From where do you get g- and ten (it)? Why not use pen ’one, somebody, a person’ ? Regarding bn, I think it might have to be pluralized as bain. Also, you might want to capitalize Eru unless you mean to say ’desert’! Again, nn rather than nn, a rather than ah, na nagor rather than na dhagor (it’s an ND- stem), where did you get **naw? , I might say Im veren le achenol ’I am joyous seeing you again’, though dative le troubles me ... I have already spoken on meleth and nn; lastly thiad < thia and dollost (sui doesn’t cause lenition, but if it did, dollost is from ND- again).

Aelindis, Elhath, anyone, any comments on using le like that though it’s dative? It seems to be quite common, but is it attested or correct? Should I try **gen instead?
Aelindis 16/Aug/2006 at 11:48 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Tyrhael, in your sentence Im veren le achenol the pronoun le seems to be accusative. The example le linnon im Tinuviel seems to suggest that le can represent an indirect object however. BTW, wouldn’t the present partiple be achenel? (There are a few other things in need of a comment, but I don’t want to anticipate Harlindon’s reply.) 

Tinuwen 16/Aug/2006 at 03:21 PM
Herald of Imladris Points: 217 Posts: 194 Joined: 10/Apr/2006
Greetings, every body!!..
this may seem as a bit odd of a question, but I did not know any where else to ask!!..
  my sister wants to join the plaza, and she says that she would be a Hobbit who happened to live in Minas Tirith..she is looking for a nice name....any suggestions?..
Ista Sharrasi 16/Aug/2006 at 10:13 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii need help! I need the following translated into both sindarin and quenya for tomorrow please! It’s a good friends birthday, and this will be written in sindarin/quenya on the card as well as in english for others to read, but the gift will be presented in the elvish language(s). I have to get it sent off tomorrow though, so if someone can help me soon I would be forever in your debt! The two names at the bottom marked with * can be left as is, I just put them in since you might need the whole thing to be able to translate. I don’t know, I just know it would be needed in Spanish. Gracies, Hannon le, and THANK YOU!

To you, Goblin King, I send my deepest and sincerest regrets that I could not be present at this party to celebrate your birthday. I send you this gift in place of being here myself, and I hope you find as much enjoyment in it as you would any other silly gift from a young elf. Happy Birthday, and may you have many more!

From the Shadow Desert Realm,
Your humble elf
Ista Sharrasi*
Logan Andrea*

Ista Sharrasi 17/Aug/2006 at 10:14 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003

Uuum... I know I sound really impatient, but I really needed to get this gift out today, and I now have to wait until tomorrow... Is there anyone who could even partially translate it? Please? And thank you?

Aelindis 18/Aug/2006 at 03:39 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Ista Rechalee, your letter is not easy to translate and would require a lot of rephrasing. All I can come up with at present is a rather short and inelegant (neo-Sindarin!) version:
Allen, Aran Yrch, teithon i phith hin na naergon. -bolen teli nan mereth nostor ln. Harthon, i ant hen o elleth neth tegitha ’lass allen. Nostor veren!
O Ardh Dae-eru,

Lit.: "To you, King of Goblins; I write these words with woeful lament. I could not come to the feast of your birthday. I hope, this gift from a young elf-maid will bring joy to you. Happy birthday! 
From the Realm of Shadow-desert, "
Ista Sharrasi 18/Aug/2006 at 03:10 PM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6358 Posts: 16557 Joined: 26/Dec/2003
That works well and perfect, thank you so very much Aelindis!  I need nothing more then that, but if you’d like to rephrase and work the entire thing, please do so. ^_^
Nieriel Eleniel 19/Aug/2006 at 12:48 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
Do you need a spanish translation, Ista Rechalee? I can do that.
Lysistarielle 20/Aug/2006 at 04:42 AM
Minstrel of Lothlorien Points: 2256 Posts: 2794 Joined: 04/Apr/2004
Um I need some help here...
If I’m not wrong, ’Music’ in Quenya is ’Lindal’, right? So if I were trying to say something like... ’Music of the early Autumn’, or ’Early Autumn Music’, would it be right to phrase it as such: Yavi Lindal. Or, do you join the words together? Or is there another way of phrasing it? It’d be great if the language experts could answer this.

Thank you so much in advance!
simpsonim 20/Aug/2006 at 06:54 AM
Sage of Isengard Points: 6521 Posts: 5563 Joined: 27/Aug/2005

Hey er...people...

I have a question for the Tengwar translaters here... well anybody but I suppose they will know that kind of thing...

I know Tengwar very good , writing and translating and I have applied for the tengwar teacher at that School of Imladris but I have a little problem...

I saw some writings on Tengwar in this thread and I would like to know how can I get a program or something that writes Tengwar , cause although I know it I can’t write in on PC or get it on PC in any way or form except by writing it on paper and scanning it so...   HELP!?

Aelindis 20/Aug/2006 at 07:29 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
You would have to install one or more Tengwar fonts on your PC. See the links on Amanye Tenceli.
simpsonim 20/Aug/2006 at 02:15 PM
Sage of Isengard Points: 6521 Posts: 5563 Joined: 27/Aug/2005

Thanks Aelindis

p.s. - can anyone translate the tengwar on the top of that site on the link Aelindis gave me in the previous post so I can compare my translation to another. I translated most of it but 3 words bug me... if anyone wishes, just for fun and knowledge...

Tinuwen 20/Aug/2006 at 02:56 PM
Herald of Imladris Points: 217 Posts: 194 Joined: 10/Apr/2006
.... sniiffffff....   nobody seems to have a nice Gondorian name for my sister?....  where else shall I look!!...please, help us!!..please... please!!..
Nieriel Eleniel 20/Aug/2006 at 04:20 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
would  laurahonda , laurenda be good translations of Goldenheart into Quenya, or should the adjective go after? which is a better translation?
Aelindis 21/Aug/2006 at 11:34 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
simpsonim, the the tengwar on the top of that site mean: Amanye Tenceli. The writing systems of Aman. Here is a sample of Fanor’s tengwar.
simpsonim 22/Aug/2006 at 12:12 PM
Sage of Isengard Points: 6521 Posts: 5563 Joined: 27/Aug/2005

Well, that’s the problem with my translation... I understood that that’s what it’s supposed to be written there... but by litteraly translating every tengwar as I know it (and that is fonetical by the way cause I’m from croatia and here we write as we pronounce and tolkien wrote the same way , cause elven is not derived from english) I get...   amanei teeli. the writing sistems of aman. here iz a sample of feanors tegar.

Now that is close enough and I don’t know all the rules of Quenya writing (only that the tehte for vocals are written on the predecesing tengwar) cause I write in sindarin way (when the tehte for vocals are on the next tengwar) but I don’t understand why in the middle of the sentence words "Aman" and "tegar(tengwar)" are written in quenya style and everything else is in the sindarin way of writting...

Also , while translating I realised by sence that the last word was supposed to be "tengwar" but acctualy I couldn’t translate it anyway but "tegar". Is it their mistake or where are those "n" and "w" hidden?

Aelindis 23/Aug/2006 at 01:29 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
simpsonim, it seems that the spelling of these words literally represents a sample of different tengwar modes, used according to different languages.

The Quenya words amanye, tenceli, tengwar are written in classical Quenya mode. For instance, in Quenya, series IV (quessetma) represent the labiovelars, therefore ungwe (in the word ’ tengwar’) is >ngw<. This is explained in Appendix E to LotR.

All the rest of the words is written in an English mode as used by Tolkien, also the word ’Fanor’s’.

I suppose that the phonetical mode for writing Croatian has been devised according to the requirements of the phonology of that language. The attribution of certain tengwar to certain sounds would naturally be different, because there are sounds that do not occur in the Elvish languages or in English.
Aelindis 23/Aug/2006 at 01:44 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Sorry for double posting. I have to add that the word ’aman’ is also written in Quenya mode. 
simpsonim 23/Aug/2006 at 06:23 AM
Sage of Isengard Points: 6521 Posts: 5563 Joined: 27/Aug/2005

Thanks for those explanations Aelindis. I really don’t know elven languages nor the quenya mode for writing it, I just know tengwar.

And btw. , there is no phonetical mode for writing croatian in tengwar() , not an official one atleast, I made it for myself.

However , the tengwar are used by the way they are supposed to be pronounced and Tolkien uses them the same way. That is perhaps easyer for croats to comprehand then to english cause we have special letters that represend sound for which you have to combine two or more letters. For example we have a letter "č" which is equal to your "ch" in the word "church" and there is a tengwar that represents that sound (3rd temar , 1st tyeller) so if you would want to write the word "church" in tengwar you’d have to write "čurč" and not "church" cause when you write "ch" in tengwar, by the reading rules in elven it would be read as "ch" in the scotish word "loch".
That’s why when Tolkien writes his name in tengwar he writes đon (đ being the tengwar in the the 3rd temar and 2nd tyeller, and without the h that is not read but is only written) and not "John" as it is litteraly written.

So it’s acctualy somewhat easyer for us croatian to translate from tengwar cause we read as we write and you pronunce differently then you write.

So anyway...no problem acctualy , the only thing that puzzled me were the words that were written in quenya mode which I don’t know so...thanks for clearing it out for me

Linaelin 23/Aug/2006 at 08:42 AM
Horse-groom of the Mark Points: 600 Posts: 26 Joined: 16/Jun/2004

my elvish nick name is Linaelin, i made it up a long time ago when i didn’t know much about Elvish. I still don’t feel like i know enough Elvish to correct it.

It is supposed to be "Hymn of the Lake/Mere" can someone tell me the correct version (either in Sindarin or Quenya or both)

i probably won’t change it, i’ve used it forever, but i would like to know

Magradhaid 23/Aug/2006 at 04:33 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Linaelin: Well, I’d say say that your name actually appears to be a combo of ln + aelin ’pool’ + ’lakes (pl.)’. To make a name with the meaning you intended, I would combine lind + ael or glr + ael to get Linnael or Glrael. A name Linnaelin with two N’s would be ’Hymn of the Meres.’ You could also incorporate a word which could be interpreted as ’hymn’, aerlinn ’holy song’. That might produce Aerlinnael. That’s all in Sindarin.

As for Quenya, perhaps Lrailin or Ailind.
Linaelin 23/Aug/2006 at 08:05 PM
Horse-groom of the Mark Points: 600 Posts: 26 Joined: 16/Jun/2004
Thanks, like I said, i probably won’t change it, but it’s nice to know. I guess i was close (if only I had added another N)!
Aelindis 24/Aug/2006 at 03:12 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

simpsonim, thanks for your explanations.
I am not quite convinced that creating a phonetical mode for Croatian is actually so easy. Though the phonetical transcription of English "church" might seem easier to you, there are other sounds the rendering of which is not so obvious.
For instance, how do you transcribe Croatian "lj" and "nj" which are not consonant clusters "l+j" and "n+j"  in your tengwar mode?

simpsonim 24/Aug/2006 at 12:38 PM
Sage of Isengard Points: 6521 Posts: 5563 Joined: 27/Aug/2005

Aelin - I got carried away, lol  Anyway... np

Anyway... I didn’t say it’s easyer for croatians to adopt tengwar to thier language cause we have some letters that only our language has like , as you said, "lj" and "nj"...

I only said that it’s easyer for us to understand tengwar. Cause we have more letters then english and we have special letters that exists in Tengwar too and which you don’t have but have only combinations of two letters , like "ch", which can be read in two ways....

And as for "lj" and "nj" that acctualy isn’t a (big) problem at all cause those two letters came to exists by the proces of jotation, because when you read "j" right after "l" they kinda melt in together naturally... There is absolutely no situation and under no circumstances can in croatian language "j" stand after "l" and not be read as "lj", whenever there is "l","j" it is read as "lj".
So when I want to write "lj" in tengwar I just write "l","j" , no problem. Same is with "nj"

Magradhaid 24/Aug/2006 at 07:17 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
This interested me so I designed a chart for the use of the tengwar with Croatian consonants. However, the vowels were trickier: would you somehow designate different symbols or positions for the different pitches (rising, falling) or would you just separate how to write long and short vowels?

Here is how I would write Oče na in Tengwar: Unfortunately, I don’t know Croatian so I had no clue what vowels were what length or pitch when writing them (I couldn’t find a version with vowel markings online) so I wrote them all short, which is bound to be incorrect... but, it contains the consonants as I would adapt them.

I’d love comments, as you know Croatian much better than I, simpsonim.

simpsonim 25/Aug/2006 at 01:15 PM
Sage of Isengard Points: 6521 Posts: 5563 Joined: 27/Aug/2005

I don’t see how the vowles would be trickier Tyrhael. Croatian vowels are and are written the same as in english: "a", "e", "i", "o" and "u" and the tehte used to write those vowels in tengwar are also the same as in english...so you wrote the vowels quite right....

 

However I have found some tengwar that we use for different letters and I do not know what is that tehta that you put under "l" and "n" which are then supposed to be pronounced as "lj" and "nj".
This is how I would write
Oče na (I wrote only half of it):

This is the tengwar table that I have made and which is, well, not adapted to croatian but is rather general and can be used in all languages that use latin alphabet. That’s why I didn’t want to invent letters like "lj" and "nj" but I simply write "l", "j" and "n", "j" cause there are no tengwar for them and I didn’t want to invent tengwar of my own. This way people can write and translate from all languages. It is kinda universal...

 

 

Those tengwar that have the mark "bezv." , those are silent letters, they stand for "wh", "rh" and "lh". And those tengwar that are marked as "alt." , that means alternative. I also marked the nonvibrant "r" as "alt." although it is not...

Nan-tasarion 26/Aug/2006 at 01:55 PM
Farmer of the Shire Points: 398 Posts: 40 Joined: 20/Aug/2006
Hey, I’m not sure if I’m doing this right but I was wondering if anyone knows what ’ray of light’ is in either Sindarin or Quenya (it doesn’t matter which). Thank you so much. 
Magradhaid 26/Aug/2006 at 11:14 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Nan-tasarion: That would be alca in Quenya.
EamaneTaralom 28/Aug/2006 at 09:29 AM
Herald of Imladris Points: 329 Posts: 292 Joined: 03/Jun/2006
Hello, I am trying to name my horse and I was wondering if someone could translate Electric Sparks into Sindarin or Quenya for me. Thank you and it would be muchly appreciated.
simpsonim 29/Aug/2006 at 08:28 AM
Sage of Isengard Points: 6521 Posts: 5563 Joined: 27/Aug/2005

well... that is a funny request.

I wonder if there is a word in elven languages for elecricity and similar stuff....like they made up word for it in latin...Interesting indeed.

OloreSilverleaf 29/Aug/2006 at 10:19 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 431 Posts: 1020 Joined: 29/Aug/2006

I was wondering if you could please translate the word Dream for me.

Thanks!

Magradhaid 29/Aug/2006 at 11:36 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Tolkien may have had words for secular items like that out of place in M-E in Early Qenya, but I don’t remember seeing them elsewhere.

ArwensDream: Dream is l in Sindarin and olr in Quenya.
Nieriel Eleniel 30/Aug/2006 at 07:38 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
Eamane Taralom: from Hisweloke’s sindarinn dictionary, spark is gil, geil, tint. From the Quenya wordlists, spark is tinw. I’ve no idea about electricity though. Maybe a construct could be built like as simpsonim says was done for Latin, but i certainly don’t have the ability.
Arvellas 30/Aug/2006 at 07:39 PM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5462 Posts: 3016 Joined: 16/May/2006
ArwensDream-Welcome to the Plaza!  Before you get anything translated, you’ll have to decide what language you want it in.  There are two major Elven languages: Sindarin and Quenya.  Of the two, Sindarin is the one usually spoken by Elves; Quenya was banned by King Thingol, and even before that, it’s use had been declining.  If you only want one word translated, there are a number of online dictionaries you can use, which are linked to in the opening post of this thread.
Magradhaid 31/Aug/2006 at 04:18 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
I have put an enquiry into Elfling to see if anyone is aware of a word for ’electric’, as alas, I found none in even the Qenya Lexicon list. If all else fails, I might suggest prefixing cel-, rim-, or rib-, which mean either ’flow’ or ’rush’, to try and get a meaning like ’Flowing Sparks’; it’s the best I can do.
Rilm 02/Sep/2006 at 03:34 AM
Councillor of Lindon Points: 13034 Posts: 9468 Joined: 30/Oct/2002
I’d like to request the translation of  Roaring Lion or Lionmane in both Quenya and Sindarin. I’m not sure if it’s possible to translate it, so I figured I might aswell increase my chances with asking for both Elven languages  Thanks for helping me out!
Magradhaid 02/Sep/2006 at 01:34 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Rilm: Lion is r in Quenya and raw in Sindarin (adapted from Noldorin rhaw), as given in the Etymologies’ stem RAW- [LR:427].

As for a word for ’mane’, there was once one known - yet I must provide a disclaimer. You see, this Qenya word mairu ’mane, flowing hair’ would have only been in use when the word for horse was mairo [PE12:56], which would have been in use c. 1915 (information obtained from Ryszard Derdzinski’s chronology; see entry ’Qenya Lexicon&rsquo, whereas rocco is now in use for ’horse’, as given in Etym. ROK- [LR:429] c. 1937, and Letters: 282, 382. So, as the stem that mairu comes from is no longer associated with ’horse’, the word for ’mane’ would be discounted.

Rva is given as Q. ’roaring’ in Markirya (before 1931), which might be speculatively adapted into Sindarin phonology as **rawui... though combinations such as Q. rvar or S. rawrawui just sound and look... less than desireable, IMHO. I don’t really know what to say.

If anyone has suggestions, I’d be interested in hearing them.
Rilm 03/Sep/2006 at 02:02 PM
Councillor of Lindon Points: 13034 Posts: 9468 Joined: 30/Oct/2002
Tyr - Yes I remember now that there really isn’t something that would translate to mane, I guess that’s why I translated windmane to Slfast. *ponders* Actually, the word Rvar is really cool! It will serve it’s purpose just fine! Hannon le!
Nieriel Eleniel 04/Sep/2006 at 06:32 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
Could anyone tell me what language  Haldir is in, and what it means?
Aralomil 04/Sep/2006 at 11:58 PM
Doorwarden of Minas Tirith Points: 5040 Posts: 4342 Joined: 14/Jan/2003
Suilad and hannon le in advance for translating this. I would like the translation for:

Hall of Fire

In Quenya, please. And Sindarin, too, if possible. Can you also tell me which language the Elves would have been speaking in the Third Age?
Nieriel Eleniel 05/Sep/2006 at 07:20 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
Aralomil: In the Third Age, Sindarin was the most widely spoken. Quenya was used only for ceremony and high lore.
Hall of Fire: Sindarin: "tham od naur"  (hall of fire)   Quenya: " mard nar, mard nar"  (hall fire, I couldn’t find "of", you might want to invert the words and use fire hall)
The translations are the best i could manage, but it’s probably a good idea to have a more experienced member check them before you use them.
Celebrin 06/Sep/2006 at 06:29 AM
Linguist of Lothlorien Points: 3138 Posts: 7326 Joined: 20/May/2005

Can someone translate the prefex of my name if it can be tanslated?

"Nolo"

Magradhaid 06/Sep/2006 at 11:37 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Nieriel Eleniel: Haldir is Sindarin for ’hidden hero’ from S. hall dr (coming from PQ skaln-nere). Glad it wasn’t **Heldir from **skeln-nere!

Aralomil and Nieriel Eleniel: od mean ’of’ as in ’of Imladris, from Imladris’, and the -d isn’t used before consonants anyway. I would say Tham en-Naur or Sam en-Naur, or, if you wanted one word, Nartham. In Quenya, Mard Nro, Nremard, or Narmard.

Nolofinw: ’Nolofinw’ was Fingolfin’s Quenya name and I think the first element was akin to Doriathrin (n)golo- ’magic, lore’ from GOL-, and the latter from PHIN- ’skill’. It also sounds like ON ngolfine ’magic skill’, so the entire name might mean ’Magic Skill’ or ’Magic Skill (of Finw)’, as Finw was his father. Though, I have read elsewhere that Fingolfin was a contraction of Finw olofinw ’Finw, wise Finw’ just as Finarfin was a contraction of Finw Arafinw ’Finw, noble Finw’, so I might say that Nolofinw means ’Wise Finw.’
Celebrin 06/Sep/2006 at 12:06 PM
Linguist of Lothlorien Points: 3138 Posts: 7326 Joined: 20/May/2005
Thank you, Tyrhael. Farewell!
Nieriel Eleniel 06/Sep/2006 at 06:09 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
Thanks for clearing that up, Tyrhael! And thanks for translating Haldir.  at Heldir, though I must admit I had to look it up first!
OloreSilverleaf 06/Sep/2006 at 06:38 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 431 Posts: 1020 Joined: 29/Aug/2006

Thank you Tyrhael!

I think I like the Quenya version better!

Aralomil 07/Sep/2006 at 12:48 AM
Doorwarden of Minas Tirith Points: 5040 Posts: 4342 Joined: 14/Jan/2003
Hannon le, Tyrhael and Nieriel, for both the information and the translations. You’ve cleared up a couple lingering questions I had about Sindarin and the word "of". Much appreciated.
Agarwaen elleth 10/Sep/2006 at 05:40 AM
Forester of Lothlorien Points: 179 Posts: 15 Joined: 10/Sep/2006
Sorry, I’m extremely new here, but I’ve been thinking about getting a tattoo in preferably Sindarin, of one of the following phrases (don’t worry about the last one, it’s a bit of a long shot):

*Forever (or always) in my heart
*Never forgotten
*A hundred days have made me older, a thousand lies have made me colder, since the last time that I saw your pretty face

I have had a go at translating bits myself but this is the first time I’ve tried and it’s important to me that this is right. If someone could please translate it for me and put it into tengwar I’d really appreciate it

Thanks.
Magradhaid 10/Sep/2006 at 04:55 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Kelly L: I would translate ’Forever in my heart’ into Sindarin as Nedh ’uren an-uir, which I would transcribe as (1 of two ways).
Agarwaen elleth 10/Sep/2006 at 05:36 PM
Forester of Lothlorien Points: 179 Posts: 15 Joined: 10/Sep/2006
Tyrhael: That’s brilliant, thank you so much.
OloreSilverleaf 12/Sep/2006 at 11:28 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 431 Posts: 1020 Joined: 29/Aug/2006

I would like to know if you know of any good elven names?

Thanks!

Maikaheledien 12/Sep/2006 at 01:49 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 323 Posts: 25 Joined: 07/Dec/2003

I am trying to create a name in Sindarin for my fiance and me, since we just found out our "generated" name  means nothing...

for him, something alone the line of true, noble, vigilance since that’s the kind of person he is   I’ve tried to find some words in the sindarin dictionary, and these are what I have so far,  noble - arth    true - thenid   vigilance - Tirith, but I don’t know how to put them together... so help~~                 

As for his last name, its easy, his last name is Sun, so that’d be Anor.... would that be a weird last name???if yes, how about bright sun or something like that?

For me, I like to sing, and I love nature, so something like awakening Dawn, glimmering spring, blissful song... and in dictionary awankening - echui   glimmering - gael   blissful - manadh   dawn - minuial   spring - eithel   song - aerlinn or glir...

and my last name means green field, so I found Parth in the dictionary. 

I hope the words I found would make the translation a little bit easier.... I’m sorry, I realize this is probably a lot of work, but I would like to put our elvish names on our wedding program, so please help~~ thank you 

OloreSilverleaf 14/Sep/2006 at 12:50 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 431 Posts: 1020 Joined: 29/Aug/2006

Maikaheldien: Earlier on i asked what the word for dream was.IN Quenya it translates into Olore.

I don’t work here or anything but I like the name.I hope it helps!

Good luck with your marriage!

Magradhaid 14/Sep/2006 at 01:36 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Maikaheledien: According to VT46:16, thenid, thenin are misreadings for thand, thann. Also, manadh is a noun ’blissful fate, fortune, doom, etc.’ rather than an adjective. Perhaps I might create a compound from arth than(n) tirn ’noble true watcher’ to make S. Arthandir. (In case you’re wondering, the -n from tirn has been attested to drop at the end of some compounds, like heledir from hala tirn and gwachaedir from gwa- hae tirn.) If you wished to make a name ’bright sun’ in Sindarin, it might be Faelanor ’brilliance of the sun’.

As for ’green field’, I would translate that a couple different ways. For ’field’, one could use parth ’field, enclosed grassland’, pel ’fenced field’, rdh ’sown field, acre’, sant ’garden, field’, or talf ’flat field or land’. Using those, I could get Calembarth, Calembel, Pelgalen, Caledhridh, Calenhant, or Calendalf. The second one is attested in LotR as a place name.

Good luck with your marriage!

ArwensDream: If you choose a language and tell some possible meanings you would like the name to have, I could piece together something.
Maikaheledien 14/Sep/2006 at 03:38 PM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien Points: 323 Posts: 25 Joined: 07/Dec/2003

Tyrhael, Thank you SOOOOOOO MUCH~

I love how these words sound! and this time they’ll be meainingful for us! thanx a lot! My fiance’s name will be Arthandir Faelanor, and I’ll be xxxxxxx Calendalf (I chose this one cuz it has same ending as Gandalf, makes me feel special  , it means green flat field right?)

all I need now is a meaningful name for myself now.... Maikaheledien means nothing.....  would you PLEASE make up something using something from following?

"For me, I like to sing, and I love nature, so something like awakening Dawn, glimmering spring, blissful song... and in dictionary awankening - echui   glimmering - gael   blissful - manadh   dawn - minuial   spring - eithel   song - aerlinn or glir..."

Million Thanks

 

Arweniel* 15/Sep/2006 at 12:59 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 1197 Posts: 1726 Joined: 15/May/2004
hi guys!  This might be a bit tricky, but I thought if it can be done it can be done here.  The name i would like translated is   VINCIGUERRA and is  Italian in origin meaning  "win the war".  Sometimes we shorten it to VINCI and that would be ok to.   I would like it in Sindarin if possible.                        Thanks!
Magradhaid 15/Sep/2006 at 03:03 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
daughterofarwen: Perhaps something with tr ’victory’ and auth ’war’, like Troth?

Maikaheledien: Perhaps Manadhlir’song of bliss’ or Celungael ’glimmering spring’?
Arweniel* 15/Sep/2006 at 03:18 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 1197 Posts: 1726 Joined: 15/May/2004
tyrhael - that is so cool, thanks!      
sword_princess 15/Sep/2006 at 08:25 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 622 Posts: 634 Joined: 21/Jul/2006
I know no one is probabaly gonna be able to trasnlate kiya. So if someone could just translate Sword princess that would be awesome!  Also can you translate moostar. I just wanna know what it means out of curiosity
Kaldaka Lirinde 16/Sep/2006 at 05:07 AM
New Soul Points: 3822 Posts: 3956 Joined: 12/Apr/2005
sword_princess- There is no word meaning princess that I can find in Sindarin, but sword queen would translate to something like Megilrian, though that can be flipped a bit to make a suitable name. Megil, magol and crist all mean sword, and rian means queen. As for moostar.... there is no word for moo in Sindarin, but star can be gil or el. Tinu translates to small star. Enjoy!
Nefertiti007 16/Sep/2006 at 06:29 AM
Tween of the Shire Points: 73 Posts: 122 Joined: 09/Sep/2006
Um, how exactly do you say "I Love You" in Sindarian?
Magradhaid 16/Sep/2006 at 09:39 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Nefertiti007, that would be Le melin.

sword_princess: Did you happen to mean ’moonstar’, the translation of ithildin?
Nieriel Eleniel 16/Sep/2006 at 02:15 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006

Kaldaka Diandi, Kiya: would it be possible to use arwen or ariell(noble maiden) for princess? in that case, you could have megil arwen/ariell, magol arwen/ariell or crist arwen/ariell. Or to refer to an elven princess, maybe arelleth, and use megil arelleth, magol arelleth or crist arelleth.

Tuilelen 17/Sep/2006 at 10:04 AM
Archer of Imladris Points: 615 Posts: 1491 Joined: 11/Feb/2004
                I was wondering whether someone could please tell me whether I formed this phrase correctly, or advise a better way of wording it: "I Mar uin Tuilelencala"? Or could I also write "I Osta uin Tuilelencle"?   Thank you!         
Magradhaid 17/Sep/2006 at 03:43 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Tuilelenwen: What were you trying to say? For one, I see a mix of Quenya and Sindarin.
Tuilelen 17/Sep/2006 at 04:16 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 615 Posts: 1491 Joined: 11/Feb/2004
               Sorry, the thing is, I wanted a name in Quenya, but I was not sure how you were supposed to link Quenya words. Since I had observed that the two elven languages were similar in a lot of things, I tried using the Sindarin grammar rules on Quenya words.  What I was trying to create was a house name like, The home of the light of the spring star, or something like that. Could you please help me?
Magradhaid 17/Sep/2006 at 06:07 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Perhaps Mar Calava Tuilleno.
sword_princess 18/Sep/2006 at 07:06 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 622 Posts: 634 Joined: 21/Jul/2006

WOW! So many suggestions. Well thannx for the translation guys.

Tuilelen 19/Sep/2006 at 04:48 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 615 Posts: 1491 Joined: 11/Feb/2004
     That’s great, thanks very much Tyrhael.  
Vethnwen 22/Sep/2006 at 12:07 AM
Bookbinder of the Shire Points: 3969 Posts: 6053 Joined: 18/Jul/2003

Greetings Oh Great Ones!!!

I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to help me translate this as close as possible into Sindarian or Quenya  (Preferably Quenya, But I’m not picky!)

"Do Not Force The Mind Into A Steel Box Of Restriction"

Thank you ^-^

Magradhaid 22/Sep/2006 at 12:57 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Vethnwen: va nir i sma minna yaisa colca nuhtalva. However, the words for ’steel’ and ’box’ are Qenya, as none other exist.
Vethnwen 22/Sep/2006 at 11:47 PM
Bookbinder of the Shire Points: 3969 Posts: 6053 Joined: 18/Jul/2003

Tyrhael - It’s Perfect! Thank you so much!

And also, if it’s not too much to ask, but can you also translate

"Why is it so complicated"  and "Why are things so complicated"  Into sindarian or Quenya or a variation of either, I don’t care... Thanks =

Trdirith 25/Sep/2006 at 01:05 AM
Scout of Lothlorien Points: 75 Posts: 6 Joined: 24/Sep/2006

Hi, my real name means: Guard of the Victory   so could someone translate it in good Sindarin,
I tried it myself and came up with Tur (victory) and Tirith (guard) but I don’t really know if it is good.

If anyone can help me.. thanks

Aelindis 25/Sep/2006 at 03:35 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Presumably  tr+tirith would become Trdirith.
Trdirith 25/Sep/2006 at 05:23 AM
Scout of Lothlorien Points: 75 Posts: 6 Joined: 24/Sep/2006

thank you Aelindas, I will change my name into Trdirith. But why would it become dirith instead of tirith? 
Also the meaning of my GF’s name is: Truth, Belief/trust  what would be a good sindarin translation for that?
 

Aelindis 25/Sep/2006 at 06:15 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
When Sindarin words are joined together in order to form a compound, several phonological changes take place. If the second word beginns with t-, this consonant mostly becomes d- (according to the ’soft mutation’).
There are no S words for "truth", "belief"; "trust/hope" means estel.
Taurllo 25/Sep/2006 at 11:30 AM
Wine-taster of Mirkwood Points: 4771 Posts: 6393 Joined: 12/Nov/2004
Hello all. I was wondering if I can get the words "Deer Horn" or Horn of the Deer translated into Quenya. With the help of the Sil and UT I managed to get the Sindarin version but I prefer Quenya. The Sindarin version I think would be Arras-ras or Ras-en-Arras. thanks in advance.
Magradhaid 25/Sep/2006 at 12:10 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Taurllo Hyanda: Rather Arasras or Rass-en-Aras, but since you want it in Quenya, I could use reconstructed **arass "deer" and rass / tarca ’animal horn’. Since **arass and rass are similar in sound and making a compound that didn’t seem redundant, I’ll use the latter to make Tarcarass as a name and tarc’ arasso or arasso tarca as a phrase.
Lavannah 25/Sep/2006 at 09:09 PM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 4 Joined: 25/Sep/2006

Greetings,

Could someone please, please, please give me a middle earth alphabet, so that i can start translating.

thank you

Lavannah

Lavannah 25/Sep/2006 at 09:20 PM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 4 Joined: 25/Sep/2006

also would it be possible, to please translate my daughters names into elvish writing for a tattoo thanks.

their names are Jayde and Mariah

Aelindis 26/Sep/2006 at 06:27 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Quote: Originally posted by Lavannah on Monday, September 25, 2006


Could someone please, please, please give me a middle earth alphabet, so that i can start translating.

Did you, by any chance, read my reply in the other thread ?
What are you trying to say by "a middle earth alphabet" that would help you with "translating" ?

Lavannah 27/Sep/2006 at 02:54 AM
New Soul Points: 2 Posts: 4 Joined: 25/Sep/2006

ok im new here so i obviously dont know what im talking about lol.

is it possible to get the english alphabet transcribed to (tengwar?) please. also the names Jayde and Mariah translated and transcribed for a tattoo. im sorry if im being difficult.

thankyou

Dinledhwen 27/Sep/2006 at 11:44 AM
Thranduil Points: 2018 Posts: 10585 Joined: 11/Jan/2005

Tyrhael ~ Thanks for your help over in OoME. I should have come here first. Anyway what I’m trying to come up with in elvish is a name that will translate (and it can be roughly) into "someone who sings softly".

What I came up on my own was Dnlind from the one book I have.

Magradhaid 27/Sep/2006 at 05:03 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
Dnlind is a mixture of Sindarin and Quenya. Anyway, if you meant soft in terms of volume, I might advise using milya or moica instead of maxa or mussa. In Sindarin, perhaps Muiglin for the name, though **muig is a construction from Qe. moica.
Dinledhwen 28/Sep/2006 at 07:08 AM
Thranduil Points: 2018 Posts: 10585 Joined: 11/Jan/2005
Tyrhael ~ Once again thanks for your help!  So is this pronounced Mui-glin (with the ui as one sound) or Mu-i-glin (with the ui like in ruin)?
Nieriel Eleniel 28/Sep/2006 at 07:48 AM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
Lavannah: There’s no sindarin word for Jade, perhaps you could use something on the lines of green jewel, possibly calenmir? For Mariah, wich acording to behindthename.com means beloved or love maybe mela, melant.
Brennaisolde 28/Sep/2006 at 08:40 AM
Messenger of Imladris Points: 84 Posts: 69 Joined: 07/Apr/2006

If anyone gets a free minute sometime, would you please translate the name Shelia into Elvish? I do not know which one in particular. Which ever you choose is great with me!

The name is Irish gaelic, the original form is Sile,(supposed to be an accent mark over the "e" but I don’t know how to do that!) and means lover of music and blind

So, if someone gets the chance I’m very interested in it!

THANKS!!

Magradhaid 28/Sep/2006 at 05:23 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008

Dinledhwen: The -ui- is one sound.
Nieriel: "calenmir" would be mutated as either calemmir or calenvir. As for the verb mel-, though melant is the preterite, I think the present is likely *ml, just as the pret. of gar- is garant but the present gr. Also, there is mell for ’beloved’, akin to Q. melda.

Brennaisolde: I would translate ’lover of music’ into Quenya as Lindilm and blind (’sightless’) as Avacni.

Brennaisolde 29/Sep/2006 at 11:09 AM
Messenger of Imladris Points: 84 Posts: 69 Joined: 07/Apr/2006

Tyrhael,

Again you impress me with your knowledge! Thank you very much for your research into my question. If I may, I have another...after this one I will do my best to leave you be! My daughter Christina is turning into an elf fanatic! We both draw celtic knotwork and I would like to present her with a gift on Christmas, her name written in some form of elvish surrounded by the knotwork(that I of course will do!) If you would be so kind to help me with her name I would very much appreciate it. If there are other words we could "add" to her elven name that would be cool too! She has long blonde hair and bright blue eyes, and loves to ride horses, if there are words to describe that in her name. I know thats a lot of information! Just trying to give ideas for her name.

lra ranya 29/Sep/2006 at 09:46 PM
Stablehand of the Mark Points: 255 Posts: 80 Joined: 18/Sep/2006
Hi, could you please help me find a fitting elvish name for the following character, a elven/man cross, a 15 year old girl with dark hair and dark eyes,
Orphaned at the age of one month, brave in battle, but a solitary figure, a ranger, skilled with a sword, bow, and in the healing arts of old, compassionate to a fault.
Sorry that this is so long forgive me?

p.s. Quenya or Sindarin would both work ,what ever works best

Nieriel Eleniel 01/Oct/2006 at 02:54 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1697 Posts: 854 Joined: 04/Jul/2006
Thanks for clearing that up, Tyrhael!
Moros 01/Oct/2006 at 10:01 PM
Counsellor of Erebor Points: 16094 Posts: 14822 Joined: 04/Jul/2003
Okay, just because Elen is evil and won’t tell me what it means, can someone here please tell me what the heck his name "Elenhir" means in English? I’d look it up myself but a) I’m lazy, and b) this is what you guys are for so I might as well put you to work!
Aelindis 02/Oct/2006 at 07:17 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
I’m neglecting my duty to grant your extremely kind request for doing "what we guys are for.
Moros 02/Oct/2006 at 05:35 PM
Counsellor of Erebor Points: 16094 Posts: 14822 Joined: 04/Jul/2003
Thanks, you’re a ton of help.
VardaElbereth 02/Oct/2006 at 09:26 PM
Counsellor of Imladris Points: 3313 Posts: 3602 Joined: 24/Jan/2004
I know what it means, Narg!  And I’m not sharing! Or am I?  Elenhir is bascially elen from Quenya which means star and hir from Sindarin which means Lord so Elenhir is Lord of the Stars or something akin to it.
Aelindis 03/Oct/2006 at 12:11 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
VardaElberethIn Sindarin,  Elen, pl. Elin, means "Elf", although this form "was only used in histories or the works of the Loremasters." (Quendi and Eldar, WJ:377/378)  So this name might mean "Elflord".
Moros 03/Oct/2006 at 02:04 PM
Counsellor of Erebor Points: 16094 Posts: 14822 Joined: 04/Jul/2003
 Elen the Elflord....nice. That has made my day, thank you Aelindis!
Narfea Daecu 04/Oct/2006 at 05:37 PM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 228 Posts: 90 Joined: 27/Oct/2005

Hi! i need a kinda long translation, so i dont mind waiting that much! i’d like it Sindarin {i hope i spelled it right...}

Show no mercy, for you shall receive none.

If we fall, we fall as brothers,

Return these creatures to the dust they were formed from!

Strength! Courage! Brothership!

Take no prisoners!

haha...its kinda embarassing, so please just translate it with no sidecomments.

Aelindis 06/Oct/2006 at 04:38 AM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004

Narfea Daecu:

> Show no mercy, for you shall receive none.
An almost identical phrase was translated by Salo in the movie dialogues (TTT). Accordingly, with several heavy reconstructions, maybe: -dano faelas, an uben tanatha le faelas.

> If we fall, we fall as brothers,
Maybe: Ae dannam, dannam sui muindyr. (The use of ae is highly hypothetical.)

> Return these creatures to the dust they were formed from!
Maybe: Athogo in uin hin nan ast ias eriasser!  Lit.: "Lead/bring back these creatures to the dust where they arose." (I can’t think of a manner of translating the relative clause, together with passive voice: "(which) they were formed of", into Sindarin.)

> Strength! - bellas  or t
> Courage! - caun or gorn (lit.: "valour")
> Brothership! - There is no S word for "brothership". You might use "friendship" - gwend or "fellowship" - govannas (reconstructed by D. Salo) or try a reconstruction from the root TOR- by yourself.

> Take no prisoners! 
There is no word for "prisoner", and I am unable to come up with a plausible reconstruction. Presumably it would be a good idea to rephrase the sentence, e.g. (maybe): -dogo ben nan gador! ("Don’t lead/take anybody to the prison/dungeon!")

>  please just translate it with no sidecomments.
You have chosen phrases that cannot be "just translated" without comments. Even if you personally are not interested in details, there might be other readers who would like to see a few explanatory notes.


Maewen 06/Oct/2006 at 07:36 AM
Youth of Imladris Points: 299 Posts: 246 Joined: 25/Nov/2003
> > Return these creatures to the dust they were formed from!
> Maybe: Athogo in uin hin nan ast ias eriasser!

I just thought of the possibility to use another relative pronoun here; *ias is constructed from Quenya anyway, so I thought we might construct *ial "where from" from Quenya yallo as well to form ...nan ast ial toler "...to the dust where they came from".

It’s still not "which they are formed of" and I think your sentence is also fine - I just wanted to mention what just came to my mind when I read it :-)
Narfea Daecu 06/Oct/2006 at 04:48 PM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 228 Posts: 90 Joined: 27/Oct/2005
Thank you Aelindis, and not to be a pain, but could someone translate {as close as you can} "upgrade"? i know that might be hard, so kust do your best! Please and thank you!
Narfea Daecu 06/Oct/2006 at 04:49 PM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 228 Posts: 90 Joined: 27/Oct/2005
oh yes, and thank you maewen. all help is good help.
Magradhaid 07/Oct/2006 at 10:26 AM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008

Aelindis and Narfea: The Etymologies in LR gloss N. huor (literally ’heart-vigour’) as "courage", with a Quenya cognate huor. Now, both of those are names, but I think that they could be used as common nouns as well. Also, for "brothership" I might try to make something reminiscent of Q. otornass "brotherhood", with otorno meaning "sworn brothers or associates" rather than brothers of blood. In N. gwador < ON. wator is used like Q. otorno, and from that I would make something from Eldarin **wŏ-tor-asse and form **gwadoras for "brothership". So, ultimately you might call out T! Huor! Gwadoras! or even Tuor! Huor! Gwadoras! if you wanted to use tuor "strength-vigour" as given in the Etymologies, as it is echoed by huor.

Narfea: regarding "upgrade", the only thing I can think of is to make something meaning "to make more useful". But would you want that in a verb form or as a noun? In Sindarin, perhaps **ammaertha- as a verb, using maer ’useful’ with an intensifying prefix and causative verbal suffix. But I don’t know about a noun... what do you think, Aelindis?

Aelindis 07/Oct/2006 at 10:45 PM
Elder of Imladris Points: 1987 Posts: 916 Joined: 18/Dec/2004
Tyrhael, I think we can safely assume that the gerund suffix -ad would be suitable: *ammaerthad
(*gwadoras seems fine to me; I am in doubt whether Huor, Tuor can be used as normal nouns however, but who knows?)
Earendin 09/Oct/2006 at 10:54 AM
Messenger of Minas Tirith Points: 953 Posts: 540 Joined: 11/Sep/2006
Can anyone give the tengwar transcription of Earendin,Belanor and from my real name(see my profile)?Thank you
Magradhaid 09/Oct/2006 at 12:21 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008

Aelindis: I suppose there is no way of knowing, though it might be analogous to using Elrond when a construction such as telungil might have worked, and without the nominal connotations of the former.

Earendin: Earendin seems to be Quenya in phonology, and Belanor is Sindarin in phonology, so I have rendered them likewise in those modes of the tengwar.

The two different ways of writing Belanor are with vowel markings (tehtar) and in the full Beleriandic mode.

lra ranya 09/Oct/2006 at 02:54 PM
Stablehand of the Mark Points: 255 Posts: 80 Joined: 18/Sep/2006
me to!
got a quenya inscription for my sword and i need help getting it proofread and translated into tengwar

Aicanaro, anna ana i lra ranya nauta maranwe.

Translation is (as best as I can get it)
Aicanaro, A gift to the dark wanderer bound by fate.

Sorry if its not correct, I did the best I could
and also, if it’s not too much trouble, could you do my full name in tengwar please?
it’s ( Anna Rachel Wetzel)

Magradhaid 09/Oct/2006 at 05:15 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008
lra ranya: I would suggest Aicanro, anna i lra ranyarenna avaleryaina maranwenen.
Earendin 10/Oct/2006 at 12:18 AM
Messenger of Minas Tirith Points: 953 Posts: 540 Joined: 11/Sep/2006
Thanks Tyrhael!Where have you learned all these Elvish and how can you write in the computer in tengwar?
lra ranya 10/Oct/2006 at 01:15 AM
Stablehand of the Mark Points: 255 Posts: 80 Joined: 18/Sep/2006
thanks Tyrhael but i was just wondering if by chance you could tell me what it means. what I meant was did you keep it with the same words I had it
(Aicanaro, A gift to the dark wanderer bound by fate), or did you change the wording, even slightly. if so then please let me know . sorry this sounds so demanding but I know some one that will make a world of fun of me if I tell her and what I thought it said, and then it turns out to be something else, if you get what I mean. Im so sorry I sound like such an ingrate, but could you repost it in tengwar for the inscription?

Magradhaid 10/Oct/2006 at 01:13 PM
Imp of Umbar Points: 7957 Posts: 8204 Joined: 13/Sep/2008

lra ranya: I kept the wording exactly the same, except I changed some grammatical errors in the translation into Quenya, as well as altered nauta for avaleryaina since the first had connotations of being physically bound by a rope or something, whereas the latter described being bound in spirit/will.

The second line begins with "avaleryaina".

Earendin: I learned forms of Elvish at Parma Tyelpelassiva and Ardalambion, and there are Tengwar fonts available at such places like Tengwar Annatar, though typing "f" does not give you "f" in the tengwar; you have to learn how to write with it (in different modes for different languages, too).

OloreSilverleaf 11/Oct/2006 at 04:28 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 431 Posts: 1020 Joined: 29/Aug/2006
Hey!I’m trying to come up with a name for my new plaza puppy.It’s fluffy and a collie type of dog.I didn’t know if you had any suggestions.Thanks!
Saileach 13/Oct/2006 at 07:50 AM
Garment-crafter of Lothlorien