Beauty: a power?

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Region 26/Jul/2006 at 10:42 AM
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When discussing the most powerful item in ME (here), the matter of the Silmarils was brought up and, in general whether their beauty can be considered a "power".

The most discussed quote was the following one:

Then Melkor lusted for the Silmarils, and the very memory of their radiance was a gnawing fire in his heart. (The Sil, Of the Silmarils and the unrest of the Noldor)


Hereby the question was raised whether this had something to do with Morgoth himself or the beauty of the Silmarils that caused Melkor’s lust.
Celebrimbor added this comment in the above topic: But this jealousy and lust were not the powers of the Silmarils. The Silmarils did not enchant individuals and instill thoughts of jealousy. They were emotions and feelings that were already present within those individuals who merely reacted to the Silmarils as they would react to anything beautiful. In the same way that in our world treasures are desired but do not possess powers that actively prompt this desire
X spoke as follows: As beautiful as the Silmarilli were, they seem to do nothing else but, well, look beautiful. Of course there were those that lusted after them, but wouldn’t that be more to their state of mind than anything the Simarili themselves did?


So far I haven’t had much time to do some research and only found some quotes that express the beauty of the Silmarils but not the power that comes with them. So the question is easy: are the Silmarils powerful because of their beauty or because of the mere individuals who lust after them (without the Silmarils influencing their state of mind)?

Lord_Vidύm 26/Jul/2006 at 11:22 AM
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Well, beauty has magic in Tolkien’s world. Not only Silmarils, but all beautiful things, weilded magic. For example Luthien’s beauty was magical. The beautiful song of her, was able to sleep every soul in Morgoth’s fort-Angbhand. So speaking for beauty, you indead speak of power.

Now as for the Silmarills. The Silmarills are not powerful- they have no power. Those who weilded them did not gain anything. They are not like the Ring- whose weilders gained power and so on. They were just jewels of extreme beauty and were unique. The "rare" and "beauty" they had was what Melkor lusted in them. (The only real power they weilded was that they could burn any inpure who would dare touching them, but they gained that through the blessing of Varda and not by themselves)

Túrin 26/Jul/2006 at 01:21 PM
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There does seem to be some power within the Simaril:

"Little did it ease the grief of Lúthien to learn that the Lord of Nogrod was slain and many Dwarves beside; but it is said and sung that Lúthien wearing that necklace and that immortal jewel was the vision of greatest beauty and glory that has ever been outside the realm of Valinor; and for a little while the Land of the Dead that Live became like a vision of the land of the Valar, and no place has been since so fair, so fruitful, or so filled with light." (Silmarillion, Ruin of Doriath)

"Then Elwing and the people of Sirion would not yield the jewel which Beren had won and Lúthien had worn, and for which Dior the fair was slain; and least of all while Eärendil their lord was on the sea, for it seemed to them that in the Silmaril lay the healing and the blessing that had come upon their houses and their ships." (Silmarillion, Voyage of Earendil)

"He stood now most often at the prow of Vingilot, and the Silmaril was bound upon his brow; and ever its light grew greater as they drew into the West. And the wise have said that it was by reason of the power of that holy jewel that they came in time to waters that no vessels save those of the Teleri had known; and they came to the Enchanted Isles and escaped their enchantment; and they came into the Shadowy Seas and passed their shadows," (Ibid)

So it seems, to me, clear that the Silmarilli did harbor some power more than just their beauty and the holiness bestowed upon them by Varda. It certaily seems to be the reason by which Earendil and Elwing can get past the blocks of the Valar, and beforehand it seems to bless the area in which it was kept - by Beren & Luthien, and later in the Havens at the mouths of the Sirion.

However, their beauty is, I would argue, merely another facet of their power - they intice people to deeds that otherwise would not have been done.
Lili Brandybuck 26/Jul/2006 at 01:53 PM
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Beauty is always powerful.  Throughout history (RL and ME) people have used beauty to gain or have been manipulated by beauty. 

Cleopatra is remembered thousands of years after her death, not for her great leadership, but for her beauty.  Helen of Troy had wars fought in her name, because men covetted her as a great beauty.  Look at the lengths people go to today to attain beauty because they believe that beauty will help them get what they want.   Marrilyn Monroe is still worshipped by fans who were not yet born when she was alive because of her beauty.

Even in RL, we put a lot of interest in inanimate objects simply because of their beauty.  What is a diamond except a really shiny rock?  Yet people pay thousands just to own one.  Simarills anyone? 

In ME, Wormtongue betrayed Theoden because he wanted Eowyn.  It wasn’t because she was especially nice to him, or because she was a potical mastermind.  It was because of her beauty.  Gimli wanted a hair from Galareil to reming him of her beauty.  It wasn’t her hospitality, or great wisdom that he wanted to remember (he didn’t ask Elrond for his hair, and he was treated well in Imladris).  It was her beauty that made Gimli want to defend her against Eomer’s comments. 

 

halfir 26/Jul/2006 at 05:16 PM
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Region: I don’t see that Melkor lusted after The Silmarils because of their intrinsic beauty if beauty is defined as OED:

That quality or or combination of qualities that affords keen pleasusre to the senses esp. that of sight, or which charms the intellectual or moral faculties’

what Melkor lusted after is quite clear from the quote you used:

very memory of their radiance

He lusted after the light they represented . The creature of darkness both lusts after and hates the light - and the Silmarils represented the Two Trees and before them the Two Lamps, and ultimately Varda- Queen of Heaven and Queen of light who had scorned Melkor. And before that even he had looked for and lusted after the ultimate light- the Flame Imperishable- the divine spark of creation.

Amroth 26/Jul/2006 at 11:27 PM
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Turin: I disagree with the fact that those quotes prove your point, atleast the first two ones. They do not necessarily prove any ’power’ within the silmarrils. The first quote just emphasizes the beauty of them, and the ability to ’warp’ the surroundings. Looking at something beatiful may change your perspective to your surroundings. And the second quote is just speculation for it seemed that in the silmarill...’, though this doesn’t not necessariliy disprove your point eiter.
 I agree with Halfir regarding Melkor’s lust being due to the light itself, but regarding the head post question
-"are the Silmarils powerful because of their beauty or because of the mere individuals who lust after them"
I believe it is due to their beauty, and this is what creates the lust in certain individuals. Then again, this also ’empowers’ the silmarills in a sense, as owning them gives a sense of power. 
Region 27/Jul/2006 at 02:50 AM
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Lord_Vidum: but when you’re comparing the Silmarils to the Ring you are only looking at physical power. I’m talking about power as Turin mentioned it, that would make people do something they wouldn’t do otherwise.
Lili: a good observation, especially with the examples you quoted.
halfir: I certainly agree with you but the question is whether Melkor lusted after the light, not only for the symbolism that was behind it (as you explained) but also because of the beauty?

We do know that Melkor was not wholly unmoved by beauty (eg when Luthien sang before his throne), so still he could be after the Silmarils because of the light and their beauty? Honesty bids me to say that I haven’t found any corroborating evidence that would lead us into that direction but Melkor is only one individual:

Feanor seems to draw a direct line between the Silmarils and the beauty of Arda (which, naturally doesn’t prove that Melkor lusted after them for their beauty):

But when we have conquered and have regained the Silmarils, then we and we alone shall be lords of the unsullied Light, and masters of the bliss and beauty of Arda. (The Sil, Of the Flight of the Noldor)

Again, the light is mentioned in this quote but also the beauty of Arda!


Amroth: at first you say Turin’s quote only emphasizes the beauty of the Silmarils but later on you agree that the Silmarils are powerful because of their beauty?

Amroth 27/Jul/2006 at 03:00 AM
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Region: What I mean, or atleast what i think I mean, is that there is no real ’power’ in the silmarills. They have beauty, yes, but that is not a real ’power’ is it? But the beauty affects certain individuals, but this is not necessarily just due to the beauty, but because these individuals are ’open’ for it. So, they are powerful, due to their beauty, but that does not mean it is a power.

Sorry if this is hard to understand, I’m having trouble putting what I think into words at the moment...

Pallando Romestamo 28/Jul/2006 at 08:43 AM
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Wasen’t Earendils star the Silmaril he wore that was recovered by Beren and Luthien? And the light of that star-silmari was captured in the Phial of Galadriel which was used by Frodo and Sam to ward off Evil namely the Wich-King near Minas Morgul and Shelob. Of course it could be that because they were creatues of darkness that pure light had the capability to repel them like the light of the sun did to Orcs and Trolls, but l quote these lines from the TT page 691-692 the chapter: The stairs of Cirith Ungol.

 "the Rider halted suddenly, right before the entrance of the bridge, and behind him the host stood still. There was a pause, a dead silence. Maybe it was the Ring that called to the Wraith-lord, and for a moment he was troubled, sensing some other power within his valley. This way and that turned the dark head helmed and crowned with fear, sweeping the shadows with its unseen eyes....Frodo watched with his mind, not willing it in suspense (as if he looked on some old story far away), it moved the hand inch by inch towards the chain upon his neck. Then his own will stirred; slowly it forced his hand back and set it on another thing, a thing lying hidden near his breast. Cold and hard it seemed as his grip closed on it; the phial of Galadriel, so long treasured, and almost forgotten till that hour. As he touched it, for a while all thought of the Ring was banished from his mind. He sighed and bent his head. At that moment the Wraith-king turned and spurred his horse and rode across the bridge, and all his dark host followed him.

This tends to show that the light from the Silmaril contained some type of power able to either push back the power of the ring or strengthen Frodos and conceal their presence from the Withch-king. It would seem to do that the Silmarils ligt had empowered the phial with some type of power great enough to do this, unless the phial had been bestowed with some type of Elven enchantment maybe from Galadreil herself. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

mighty ent man 28/Jul/2006 at 12:30 PM
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Region - I know very very little of the Silmarils and the events surrounding them but I am intrigued by the basic principles that you raise. This is why I am deciding to post in here for I hope to help this thread by giving my opinion on beauty and its power, if it has any at all.

So the question is easy: are the Silmarils powerful because of their beauty or because of the mere individuals who lust after them (without the Silmarils influencing their state of mind)? - Firstly I am interested in the last part of what you say. Do you mean to imply that the actual beauty of the Silmaril’s intentionally influences their state of mind. For if you do I disagree. I think beauty on its own can cause temptation. Beauty is a powerful tool and can be used by many. Of course a certain response is also required in the person beholding. Is there not the old saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder? I think this is a crucial saying to keep in mind.

If I see a beautiful shiny jewel lying by the road I will be attracted by its beauty, and pick it up. I would not be attarcted to pick up a dirty stone. Thus the beaut of that object does hold power. As to the quote you give of Melkor being gnawed at by his memory. This seems to be part of his personality but obviously the stones beauty must be part of it.

Does not also Galadriels beauty command some power over Gimili? I think this is a good point raised by Lord Vidum that beauty is powerful in Tolkien.

 

Region 29/Jul/2006 at 06:38 AM
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Amroth: I don’t know. Is it possible to close yourself to beauty? And, after reading through Turin’s quotes (especially the last one), can we say they don’t have any real power? Furthermore, how do you define power? Using the same definiot halfir provided or a different one? I think we are all open to beauty, we just don’t always allow ourselves to enjoy that beauty or show signs of how much we like something...

Pallando: well I am not entirely sure but I don’t think the Phial of Galadriel holds the same light as the Silmarils since the Silmarils are actually lost...But nevertheless your example fits the question since we’re not merely looking at the Silmarils (well, maybe on a first level) but at beauty in general.

Mem: well I don’t think the Silmarils intentionally influence someone’s state of mind. Yet I think that those who lust for it are unconsciously drawn to it because of the beauty, because of the light and maybe because of the beauty of the light?
Certainly there is the saying you quote but who didn’t find the Silmarils beautiful? Oh and re-reading Lord_Vidum’s comment he speaks about magic and not necessarily power.  Some good examples about Lady Galadriel and Gimli. Do you believe then, that here too this has also something to do with Gimli’s personality?

Túrin 29/Jul/2006 at 07:20 AM
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Amroth,

I’m well aware of the wording of the passages. However, there are three, completely seperate and distinct instances, where the power is attributed to the jewel. One of which cannot be doubted - others had attempted to get past the blocks set by the Valar and all had utterly failed. In fact, Earendil was trying to reach Valinor, failed, turned to go home, was joined by Elwing-in-bird-form and the Silmaril, turned to seek Valinor once again, this time with the Silmaril, and reached it.

I perhaps should have led off with that last quote, for it is the least deniable. Yes, the previous two are written in such a manner that it is not a sure thing, but then again, so is much of the Silmarillion! Given that the Silmaril clearly had power in that it was the reason Earendil was able to reach Valinor, we should be more receptive to the notion that the Silmaril was indeed responsible for what it was believed to have done in the Land of the Dead That Walk and in the Havens of the Sirion.
mighty ent man 29/Jul/2006 at 12:33 PM
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I was thinking more about this whole concept today whilst walking to my girlfriends house. I will bullet point down some of the key points that I raised inside my own mind!

  • The main area of debate that my thoughts centered around was whether an object or thing possess an inherent factual beauty, or whether there is no beauty in it and it is simply down to the viewer. The latter theory would use the saying ’beauty is in the eye of the beholder’.
  • Take the first main theory that I considered. I walked past a large bush with many pink flowers on it. Are these flowers beautiful? A flower enthusiast would certainly think so, yet possibly someone who valued concrete more would not. Which is right? Does one of these people have to be right? Do the flowers themselves have a beauty within them, know as Nature perhaps?
  • Do landscapes hold an innate beauty in them that some see and others do not see? Some perceive Nature and others do not? Just because something is not seen this does not mean that it is not there.
  • Or is it that these flowers or landscapes actually do not possess any factual beauty. It is the person who views it that assigns or creates a beauty for it in their own mind.

I could obviously not settle on which area of thought was the right one, if indeed there is any ’right’ side to take. I have posed those bullet points in questions for this is how I like to think of these kind of discussions. The root of beauty has to take us to core of what beauty is and how it is formed. That is what I think anyway.

Region - I did not really intend to go into great detail on Gimili and his attraction to Galadriel’s beauty but seeing as you asked me the question I will answer for it would  be rude not to! We see that Gimili can be moved easily by things of great beauty, Galadriel and the Glittering Caves being two examples. This would indicate to me that he has a feature or trait in his personality of being moved by beauty. He likes to show his feelings.

 

Region 31/Jul/2006 at 06:32 AM
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Mem: a good analysis there. Something I have just come to think of are certain "filters of beauty". Each filter shows a form of beauty but hides one at the same time. For example: one finds beauty in music and somebody else finds beauty in nature.

In this aspect I find it interesting that we don’t have any mention of some race or even individual disliking the Silmarils, although many different races are confronted with them. So either the Silmarils are beautiful (meaning they possess an inherent beauty) or either the individuals have the same filter and it comes down to the viewer.

But which seems more likely the next question would be?

mighty ent man 01/Aug/2006 at 12:37 PM
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Region - I agree with your theory on the ’filters’ of beauty. Another good example would be some people who find concrete buildings beautiful, or industry beautiful but others would possibly be disgusted by this creation of Man. Some might prefer Nature.

Well if we cannot find anyone who does not find the Silamrils beautiful then to me it would seem that they have an inner beauty the none can resist. That they capture the attention of all who set eyes on them.

Or do they possess a power other than beauty?

Lili Brandybuck 01/Aug/2006 at 01:36 PM
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Like I stated in my post above, in RL people have fought and killed each other over diamonds.  Diamonds are nothing but pretty rocks, with no actual "power"aside from the fact that they are beautiful and therefore coveted.  The silmarils are no different.  They are beautilful jewels that simply because of their beauty cause some to go to extreme lengths to possess them. 

Beauty in itself is power.  It does not need magic, or any other means to ensnare those around it.  The power comes from those who desire it. 

mighty ent man 03/Aug/2006 at 06:14 AM
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Lili - I like your comparison with diamonds. It is true that they posess no internal power, other than the power of their beauty. However what they do possess is a potential to gain great wealth from them. The people are not fighting over their beauty, but their value in monetary terms. Perhaps the Silmaril is different in the aspect that it does not posess monetary value but just a simple aesthetic value.

I see the similarities you draw but I question the simple beauty that drives people to gain diamonds.

Region 03/Aug/2006 at 07:11 AM
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Mem: the only other "feature" I can think of is the unsullied light of the Silmarils that hails from the Trees of Valinor as halfir stated but whether THAT is a power remains a question to me. In the case of diamonds it is indeed right that many would like to possess them because of monetary wealth, in general there are of course other motives such as emotional value.
However none of these seem to apply so I think it is indeed purely aesthetic.
Lili Brandybuck 03/Aug/2006 at 02:14 PM
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Mighty Ent Man- What gives diamonds more monetary value than any other rock?  Some one seen it, liked how it looked and and was willing to give X amount of whatever to have one.  In all honestly money is worthless.  It is just pieces of paper that we associate a value to.  Diamonds are just rocks that we associate a value to as well.  That value is determined and changes in accordance with the diamond’s beauty.  The clearer the diamond, the more beautiful it is, the more it is worth.

The same can be said about art.  What makes one painting hanging in a museum worth millions  and the other to be worth 0.50$ at a yard sale?  It is the beauty of the piece that gives it is worth.  They are both essentially canvas and oil.  It is the beauty in the art itself that makes the difference and gives it value.

Bearamir 07/Aug/2006 at 12:30 PM
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Ladies & Gentlemen:  This thread has been nominated for transfer to Ad Lore.  From what I can see, this discussion definately has the potential to generate some interesting discussion...so without further ado:  Please prepare for move to Ad Lore. 
Arvellas 08/Aug/2006 at 02:43 PM
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Lili-Excellent points in all your posts.  Beauty, as well as general appearance even if not precisely beauteous per say, can be weilded as a power.  When you go to a job interview, what do you do?  Most of us would clean up and put on our best formal clothes, because we are more likely to get hired when we look good, if only because of the visual impression.

Beauty can also give good feelings, which can help psychologically.  Doesn’t Earendil put a Silmaril afloat as a star in the sky just so that its redience can shine down?  The beauty of the star gives the Elves something to be glad about.(harkening to Pallando’s post)  Then Galadriel gives Frodo the phial of starlight, which is later used to escape Shelob and get in and out of Mordor.  I don’t recall anything about the phial other than the fact that it was beautiful and through its beauty seemed to contradict evil so much that evil could not stand up to it.  Surely this must demonstrate at least some power in sheer beauty.

inafadingcrown 08/Aug/2006 at 10:16 PM
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I haven’t read all the replies on this thread so pardon me if I repeat something.

I think that Tolkien wanted Beauty as a seperate power that could enchant others. Many were enchanted by Galadriel’s beauty and Beren was almost posessed by Luthien’s beauty so it would seem very possible that Melkor was possesed by the Silmarils’ beauty. The answer can be very simple: it is a human desire to want. You see something pretty, you want it, you do whatever you can to get it. I think Tolkien might have tried to have the Silmarils as well as the One Ring symbolize materialism.

Tuna 08/Aug/2006 at 11:43 PM
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First of all, a quote to back up what Turin is saying:

But this provides the solution: Elwing casting herself into the Sea to save the Jewel comes to Earendil, and with the power of the great Gem they pass at last to Valinor, and accomplish their errand ~Letter 131, Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien

Thus, Amroth and Lili, I think it very obvious that the Silmarilli did indeed possess power, not just beauty.

Arvellas- I truly do wonder at how you manage to so disect Earendil and the Silmaril.

  • The Valar hallow Vingilot and set it in the sky with Earendil at the helm and bearing the Silmaril. But this is only of minor lore detail.
  • The beauty of the star gives the Elves something to be glad about. Not so, I would say.
    Now when Vingilot was set to sail in the seas of heaven, it rose unlooked for, glittering and bright; and the people of Middle-earth beheld it from afar and wondered, and they took it for a sign, and called it Gil-Estel, the Star of High Hope. And when this new star was seen at evening, Maedhros spoke to Maglor his brother, and he said: ’Surely that is a Silmaril that shines now in the West?’
    And Maglor answered: ’If it be truly the Silmaril which we say cast into the sea that rises again by the power of the Valar, then let us be glad; for its glory is seen now by many, and is yet secure from all evil.’ Then the Elves looked up, and despaired no longer. ~Of the Voyage of Earendil, The Silmarillion

    It is not the beauty of the Silmaril which gives the Elves hope, it is the very presence of the star, and the fact that it is beyond where mere mortals can reach and so is placed there as if a promise of the Valar, that makes them glad. They now know that they have allies, and powerful ones at that.
  • Then Galadriel gives Frodo the phial of starlight, which is later used to escape Shelob and get in and out of Mordor.  I don’t recall anything about the phial other than the fact that it was beautiful and through its beauty seemed to contradict evil so much that evil could not stand up to it.
    Once again, I must disagree.
    By the making of the gems the sub-creative function of the Elves is chiefly symbolized, but the Silmarilli were more than just beautiful things as such. There was Light. There was the Light of Valinor made visible in the Two Trees of Silver and Gold. These were slain by the Enemy out of malice, and Valinor was darkened, though from them, ere they died utterly, were derived the lights of Sun and Moon. [...]
    But the chief artificer of the Elves (Feanor) had imprisoned the Light of Valinor in the three supreme jewels, the Silmarilli, before the Trees were sullied or slain. This Light thus lived thereafter only in these gems. ~Letter 131, Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
    What does that quote tell us? 1) It tells us that the Light of Valinor was slain by Melkor out of malice. 2) It tells us that the Silmarilli bear the Light of the Two Trees before they were sullied. 3) The continued presence of the Light shining from Earendil’s Silmaril continues the legacy and "perfection" of life before the Two Trees were cast down. Now, we know that the malice and evil of Melkor still exists in the Third Age as it is carried by all evil beings from his chief servants to lowliest minions. And so, via the Silmaril and its light as captured by the Phial, the battle between Melkor and the Two Trees continues, though not in its original form. In the confrontation between the Phial and Shelob, Shelob isn’t stopped from attacking the hobbits because she stopped to stare in awe-struck wonder at the beauty of the Phial. No, the Light of Valinor, captured in the Silmaril and transferred to the Phial, brings forth an unnatural light (one that I’m sure would be worse to her eyes than all but the most intense light), a light by which she cannot abide. Once more, we find a battle between the Light of Valinor and the evil of Melkor. And there is still another example, or are we to take it that the Two Watchers of Cirith Ungol were distracted because they were so inspired by the beauty of the Phial? Or, is it more likely that the Phial contained some power of Light descended from the Two Trees that it had power to overcome the Two Watchers?
  • Surely this must demonstrate at least some power in sheer beauty.
    I’m sorry, but all this whole exercise demonstrated was the purpose of Earendil and the power of the Light of Valinor passed down through the generations.

Of course, if there is some flaw in this argument, then please feel free to share. However, I don’t think that "sheer beauty" is at all the reason behind the power of the Silmaril nor the Phial.

mighty ent man 14/Aug/2006 at 06:26 AM
Ent Elder of Fangorn Points: 6964 Posts: 6236 Joined: 04/Nov/2003

Region - Based on the limited knowledge that I have on the Silmarils I agree with you that the desire for them seems (at least on the face of it) to be purely and aesthetic one. However we would need to examine all the cases of temptation in order to assess whether there is more than a simple beautiful ’look’ to the Silmarils. For instance: do the people have to see the Silmaril to become tempted by it? Is the the light that tempts them or is there more to it (like the shape, or look of the material it is made of)?

I for now think that the Silmarils could indeed possess an inner power quite independant of beauty. However until I or someone else gets some quotes in here I would have to remain undecided on the matter. As I mentioned at the start of this thread I have little knowledge of the Silmarils.

Lili - Oh I agree that the value we place on a diamond is linked directly to the beauty that we place on that same diamond. However what I meant was that the people are not fighting for the beauty, but for me money. Diamonds are a means to gain wealth, this is what is being fought over, not the basic aesthetic look to collect. Though this is a minor point really, although I see how you link it back to the Silmaril. It is its beauty which means it has a value amongst people.

Arvellas - I would advise you to be careful about bringing the Phial of Galadriel into this in the way that you do.

 http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=46&TopicID=191134&PagePosition=1

Above is a link to an Ad Lore thread discussion which I conducted on the subject of the Phial and its power. You will find it very interesting to read and a great deal of my thoughts are contained in it. You mention in your post that you think the Phial only contains beauty as its power and nothing more. I however was on the side that there is something more to the Phial than that.

Megliano - Thank you so much for providing that quote. It does indeed indicate in the way that it is worded that there is some power in the Silmaril, I think there is. As I said earlier in this post I am no where near sure on the matter but I do certainly get the impression of something more than simple beauty.

I completely agree with your thoughts on the Phial.

 

Pallando Romestamo 15/Aug/2006 at 08:04 AM
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Thank you Megliano, you have provided alot of evidence through your quotes and examples that the Silmaril did contain some type of power, a power stemming from a source that continued on through the ages to inspire and strengthen those who served good, and help them overcome all that served evil inspired by Melkor, such as Shelob, the Two Watchers and even the Influence of the Ring.
Taurel 21/Aug/2006 at 07:57 PM
Messenger of Imladris Points: 134 Posts: 56 Joined: 12/Aug/2006
The simarils held the light of Valinor in one of its purest forms.  My guess would be that while the beauty of the jewels was the source of some of their power it wasn’t all of it. The light itself has a sort of power over evil.
Thorondel 25/Aug/2006 at 12:09 PM
Archer of Imladris Points: 567 Posts: 274 Joined: 24/Sep/2003
Okay, as stated above, the Silmarils have power. One simply has to look at what they did to Charcharoth (sp?) the giant wolf. They consumed him with fire. The question, however, as it pertains to the thread, is whether the power stems from the beauty. Unfortunatly, I cannot answer my own questions.
Elfgurl13 31/Aug/2006 at 06:33 PM
Elfling of Lothlorien Points: 15 Posts: 65 Joined: 02/Aug/2006
That is an interesting question,if beauty is a power.Well Luthien had the power of beauty and it enchanted Beren it is the same with Arwen and Aragorn and there is a statement about Varda from the silmarillion that says "too great was her beauty in the words of elves and men"