The Silmarillion Comic Book

Archive Home > The Books
Eomer Windu 10/Aug/2006 at 10:00 AM
Banned Points: 188 Posts: 78 Joined: 22/Jun/2006
This isn’t a joke. I was thinking, what if you made The Silmarillion into a comic book series. They made The Hobbit into one comic book. Why not make a whole series on The Silmarillion. Comsidering the length of The Silmarillion, you could make a series of comic books that would last quite a while. What do you think?
Eomer Windu 10/Aug/2006 at 10:00 AM
Banned Points: 188 Posts: 78 Joined: 22/Jun/2006
This isn’t a joke. I was thinking, what if you made The Silmarillion into a comic book series. They made The Hobbit into one comic book. Why not make a whole series on The Silmarillion. Comsidering the length of The Silmarillion, you could make a series of comic books that would last quite a while. What do you think?
Celebrimbor 10/Aug/2006 at 10:30 AM
Chieftain of the Mark Points: 8047 Posts: 4093 Joined: 26/Jan/2005
The Silmarillion is a particularly scholarly read, I do not think it could or should be translated into a comic book. The idea makes me very uncomfortable as I think it would be very poor form to take such a serious work and shape it into a remedial comic book format. I believe Tolkien would turn in his grave if he thought that his wonderful solemn characters were being brought to life through speech bubbles and garish artwork.
Celebrimbor 10/Aug/2006 at 10:30 AM
Chieftain of the Mark Points: 8047 Posts: 4093 Joined: 26/Jan/2005
The Silmarillion is a particularly scholarly read, I do not think it could or should be translated into a comic book. The idea makes me very uncomfortable as I think it would be very poor form to take such a serious work and shape it into a remedial comic book format. I believe Tolkien would turn in his grave if he thought that his wonderful solemn characters were being brought to life through speech bubbles and garish artwork.
Phil_d_one 10/Aug/2006 at 11:09 AM
Shipwright of Umbar Points: 13181 Posts: 12667 Joined: 14/Jan/2004

A comic book is, by its very definition, a sort of printed film. There is minimal to no narration, and everything neccessary is explained via dialogue and movement of characters, exactly like in a film (where voice-over is sometimed used as a form of narration). In TH, this works well enough because there is a heavy emphasis on dialogue (and thought) as opposed to narration. But in The Silmarillion, where dialogue is minimal as opposed to narration and description, a comic book simply couldn’t work. Even a film version of TS would work better than a graphic novel, in my opinion.

Phil_d_one 10/Aug/2006 at 11:09 AM
Shipwright of Umbar Points: 13181 Posts: 12667 Joined: 14/Jan/2004

A comic book is, by its very definition, a sort of printed film. There is minimal to no narration, and everything neccessary is explained via dialogue and movement of characters, exactly like in a film (where voice-over is sometimed used as a form of narration). In TH, this works well enough because there is a heavy emphasis on dialogue (and thought) as opposed to narration. But in The Silmarillion, where dialogue is minimal as opposed to narration and description, a comic book simply couldn’t work. Even a film version of TS would work better than a graphic novel, in my opinion.

Celairistannen 10/Aug/2006 at 11:15 AM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6109 Posts: 3682 Joined: 17/Oct/2004

As Celebrimbor said, represent the Master’s work in comic will be disrespectful for his whishes, I think; and hardly see his work possible made in to comics, for its complicity. Would be necessary to cut the plot a lot, and the essence of the novel will be lost.

Celairistannen 10/Aug/2006 at 11:15 AM
Herald of Lothlorien Points: 6109 Posts: 3682 Joined: 17/Oct/2004

As Celebrimbor said, represent the Master’s work in comic will be disrespectful for his whishes, I think; and hardly see his work possible made in to comics, for its complicity. Would be necessary to cut the plot a lot, and the essence of the novel will be lost.

geordie 10/Aug/2006 at 02:43 PM
Hugo Bracegirdle Points: 20570 Posts: 14087 Joined: 06/Mar/2005
I enjoyed the Hobbit comic book - or graphic novel as some like to call them! It carries the story very well, and is very well illustrated. I’m sure the same team could do an excellent job with The Silmarillion, except for the inconvenient fact that the copyright was willed by Tolkien to his family, and I don’t think they’re likely to grant permission.

On the other hand, they must have given permission for TH, so you never know!
geordie 10/Aug/2006 at 02:43 PM
Hugo Bracegirdle Points: 20570 Posts: 14087 Joined: 06/Mar/2005
I enjoyed the Hobbit comic book - or graphic novel as some like to call them! It carries the story very well, and is very well illustrated. I’m sure the same team could do an excellent job with The Silmarillion, except for the inconvenient fact that the copyright was willed by Tolkien to his family, and I don’t think they’re likely to grant permission.

On the other hand, they must have given permission for TH, so you never know!
Arvellas 10/Aug/2006 at 05:57 PM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5462 Posts: 3016 Joined: 16/May/2006
Considering that TH is more of a children’s book, I can see how that would work as a comic book, but from what I know of the Sil, the idea of doing the same thing to that is kind of...how do I put it?  Odd.  I think i shall have to agree with Celebrimbor.  I also tend to be one of those people who thinks that if you take a serious thing and make it lighter you won’t be able to look at it seriously again, so I shy away from such things.  (Yeah, I know, I spoil all the fun!)
Arvellas 10/Aug/2006 at 05:57 PM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 5462 Posts: 3016 Joined: 16/May/2006
Considering that TH is more of a children’s book, I can see how that would work as a comic book, but from what I know of the Sil, the idea of doing the same thing to that is kind of...how do I put it?  Odd.  I think i shall have to agree with Celebrimbor.  I also tend to be one of those people who thinks that if you take a serious thing and make it lighter you won’t be able to look at it seriously again, so I shy away from such things.  (Yeah, I know, I spoil all the fun!)
Erumare 10/Aug/2006 at 06:05 PM
Winemaker of Lothlorien Points: 910 Posts: 382 Joined: 24/Jun/2006
I don’t think a comic book would necessarily be disrespectful to Tolkien’s work, since a comic book doesn’t always have humour, it just tells a story using pictures and dialogue. It could potentially be done in a respectful manner, more as a tribute to the work. I do, however, have to agree with Celebrimbor et al. that to do this would be a very difficult feat, since the majority of The Silmarillion is a history more than a story, and wouldn’t fit easily into a comic book format.
Curubethion 10/Aug/2006 at 06:05 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1988 Posts: 1540 Joined: 11/Dec/2005
I agree with the majority view here: The Sil would not be a good comic book. Just think of some of the components: The Music of the Ainur could never be properly done in any form except that of the written word. Perhaps some of the epic parts of the Sil would do quite well in a graphic novel like New Spring, but definitely not all. Besides, it’s incredibly long.
Erumare 10/Aug/2006 at 06:05 PM
Winemaker of Lothlorien Points: 910 Posts: 382 Joined: 24/Jun/2006
I don’t think a comic book would necessarily be disrespectful to Tolkien’s work, since a comic book doesn’t always have humour, it just tells a story using pictures and dialogue. It could potentially be done in a respectful manner, more as a tribute to the work. I do, however, have to agree with Celebrimbor et al. that to do this would be a very difficult feat, since the majority of The Silmarillion is a history more than a story, and wouldn’t fit easily into a comic book format.
Curubethion 10/Aug/2006 at 06:05 PM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1988 Posts: 1540 Joined: 11/Dec/2005
I agree with the majority view here: The Sil would not be a good comic book. Just think of some of the components: The Music of the Ainur could never be properly done in any form except that of the written word. Perhaps some of the epic parts of the Sil would do quite well in a graphic novel like New Spring, but definitely not all. Besides, it’s incredibly long.
Rohanya 14/Aug/2006 at 07:03 PM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 2902 Posts: 6872 Joined: 28/Jan/2005

We have to wonder what the purposes of books are. I would state in the case of Middle Earth these -- to come out with deep love for what is occasionally hard to fathom, if only in terms of deeper issues; to come out with deep love for how the poetic dovetails with that very same prose.

Why hard to fathom (in the first case)? There is alas a desire in the world to portray matters in comicbook form. That, I suggest, is not what reading is traditionally about.

I have not as of yet seen any comicbooks that depict in any real fashion the poetry of words. For his books always, always, always contain poems.

So I ask this

If this a poem
-- and it is --
in what way
would
in great earnestness
this simple thing
be depicted

in all of one square picture, easily?

Rohanya 14/Aug/2006 at 07:03 PM
Warrior of Imladris Points: 2902 Posts: 6872 Joined: 28/Jan/2005

We have to wonder what the purposes of books are. I would state in the case of Middle Earth these -- to come out with deep love for what is occasionally hard to fathom, if only in terms of deeper issues; to come out with deep love for how the poetic dovetails with that very same prose.

Why hard to fathom (in the first case)? There is alas a desire in the world to portray matters in comicbook form. That, I suggest, is not what reading is traditionally about.

I have not as of yet seen any comicbooks that depict in any real fashion the poetry of words. For his books always, always, always contain poems.

So I ask this

If this a poem
-- and it is --
in what way
would
in great earnestness
this simple thing
be depicted

in all of one square picture, easily?

Er Murazor 16/Aug/2006 at 02:07 AM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 582 Posts: 117 Joined: 04/Oct/2005
While there are some very, very good writers and artists that work in the comic book industry I just don’t think that The Sil in its entirety would translate well to the pages of a graphic novel for the reasons already mentioned. Individual stories taken from The Sil may or may not work but personally I would be interested in seeing the story of Beren and Luthien, as well as The Fall of Gondolin produced in some form whether it would be in the form of a graphic novel or on film. But only as long as both are portrayed as they are meant to be and not in the misguided view of the director or writer or artist.
Er Murazor 16/Aug/2006 at 02:07 AM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 582 Posts: 117 Joined: 04/Oct/2005
While there are some very, very good writers and artists that work in the comic book industry I just don’t think that The Sil in its entirety would translate well to the pages of a graphic novel for the reasons already mentioned. Individual stories taken from The Sil may or may not work but personally I would be interested in seeing the story of Beren and Luthien, as well as The Fall of Gondolin produced in some form whether it would be in the form of a graphic novel or on film. But only as long as both are portrayed as they are meant to be and not in the misguided view of the director or writer or artist.
Snaggle 16/Aug/2006 at 05:01 AM
Scavenger of Mordor Points: 480 Posts: 545 Joined: 09/Aug/2006
Well this is certainly a different idea...I mean I’ve never heard of anything having to do with Tolkien being somehow made into a comic book...wow...I guess it could happen...Im just having a hard time thiking of all of the charcters in cell shaded form....lol . It would be a large series of comic books, now wouldn’t it...very long indeed. SO much to tell, it was a miracle he could include it all in the book....
Snaggle 16/Aug/2006 at 05:01 AM
Scavenger of Mordor Points: 480 Posts: 545 Joined: 09/Aug/2006
Well this is certainly a different idea...I mean I’ve never heard of anything having to do with Tolkien being somehow made into a comic book...wow...I guess it could happen...Im just having a hard time thiking of all of the charcters in cell shaded form....lol . It would be a large series of comic books, now wouldn’t it...very long indeed. SO much to tell, it was a miracle he could include it all in the book....
Cyclona 18/Sep/2006 at 08:46 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 869 Posts: 492 Joined: 24/Nov/2003
Hmmmmm a Silmarillion comic book. Well, if it was a comic on the level of say, the Sandman, with that kind of creative talent behind it, it could be interesting. Thing is, I think part of the appeal of the Sandman for the writers & illustrators was that the scripts were always being written as they went along, the Silmarillion clearly, has already been written and so the creative process would be mostly how you would divide it up and re-told in comic book form.
Cyclona 18/Sep/2006 at 08:46 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 869 Posts: 492 Joined: 24/Nov/2003
Hmmmmm a Silmarillion comic book. Well, if it was a comic on the level of say, the Sandman, with that kind of creative talent behind it, it could be interesting. Thing is, I think part of the appeal of the Sandman for the writers & illustrators was that the scripts were always being written as they went along, the Silmarillion clearly, has already been written and so the creative process would be mostly how you would divide it up and re-told in comic book form.
Endril 19/Sep/2006 at 09:52 AM
Healer of Imladris Points: 9193 Posts: 9362 Joined: 15/Jan/2006
The  Sillmarilion as a comic biik? That’s something new to hear and a very funny ideea. But still how you can turn the Sill into a comic book. For certain parts it might work but for others no way. It’s like making a comic book after a study about the world’s history.
Endril 19/Sep/2006 at 09:52 AM
Healer of Imladris Points: 9193 Posts: 9362 Joined: 15/Jan/2006
The  Sillmarilion as a comic biik? That’s something new to hear and a very funny ideea. But still how you can turn the Sill into a comic book. For certain parts it might work but for others no way. It’s like making a comic book after a study about the world’s history.
Tammestkilp 19/Sep/2006 at 10:01 AM
Scholar of Erebor Points: 3302 Posts: 2634 Joined: 15/Sep/2003
This is possible. Everything is. And you can make a comic book after the world’s history. But, theres always one but, is this really the way we want to honour the Master, J.R.R.Tolkien. By turning his masterpieces into some kind of wierd comic books. I cannot help myself but I can’t think a comic book any other way than Mickey Mouse or something similar. And I DONT’T want to read Mickey Mouse version of Silmarillion. Oh, please no. just leave it as it is.
Tammestkilp 19/Sep/2006 at 10:01 AM
Scholar of Erebor Points: 3302 Posts: 2634 Joined: 15/Sep/2003
This is possible. Everything is. And you can make a comic book after the world’s history. But, theres always one but, is this really the way we want to honour the Master, J.R.R.Tolkien. By turning his masterpieces into some kind of wierd comic books. I cannot help myself but I can’t think a comic book any other way than Mickey Mouse or something similar. And I DONT’T want to read Mickey Mouse version of Silmarillion. Oh, please no. just leave it as it is.
VardaElbereth 19/Sep/2006 at 10:27 AM
Counsellor of Imladris Points: 3313 Posts: 3602 Joined: 24/Jan/2004

What most of you seem to be doing is classifying comic books as places where Mickey Mouse and cohorts live, and that they are an art form that can produce nothing serious or beautiful.  I most heartily disagree.  While Mickey and friends certainly represent a part of the "comic book world" they are far from being the only part.

I like the words geordie uses better, namely graphic novel.  I am a comic book reader, but I am choosy about what I read.  I don’t go to the comic book store and buy the latest edition of my favorite comic book character.  For instance, I happen to be a Batman fan, but not all Batman comics are equal.  More often than not, when flipping through a comic, I will put it back on the shelf in disgust because the artwork is so bad, or so cartoony.  But, every once in a while, I find a book with just beautiful artwork that is so vivid that the people almost look real.  And, even better, usually when the artwork is that good, an excellent story has been melded with it.  There may be somethings that words can capture that pictures never will, but the reverse is true as well.  Graphic novels do not necessarily follow the standard formatting of comics with four panel per page all of approximately the same size.  Far from it.  The size and shaping melds and changes to fit the form which best relates the story.

And, Phil, there can be narration in a graphic novel.  I’ve seen it done and it can be carried of well.  But, I would not want to see The Silmarillion handed off to just anybody if it was ever given permission to become a graphic novel.  I’d shudder to think of it in the hands of many people in the comics industry.  But, if it could find the right people, who are considered about rendering things accurately, and rendering them well, I think it could be pulled off.

VardaElbereth 19/Sep/2006 at 10:27 AM
Counsellor of Imladris Points: 3313 Posts: 3602 Joined: 24/Jan/2004

What most of you seem to be doing is classifying comic books as places where Mickey Mouse and cohorts live, and that they are an art form that can produce nothing serious or beautiful.  I most heartily disagree.  While Mickey and friends certainly represent a part of the "comic book world" they are far from being the only part.

I like the words geordie uses better, namely graphic novel.  I am a comic book reader, but I am choosy about what I read.  I don’t go to the comic book store and buy the latest edition of my favorite comic book character.  For instance, I happen to be a Batman fan, but not all Batman comics are equal.  More often than not, when flipping through a comic, I will put it back on the shelf in disgust because the artwork is so bad, or so cartoony.  But, every once in a while, I find a book with just beautiful artwork that is so vivid that the people almost look real.  And, even better, usually when the artwork is that good, an excellent story has been melded with it.  There may be somethings that words can capture that pictures never will, but the reverse is true as well.  Graphic novels do not necessarily follow the standard formatting of comics with four panel per page all of approximately the same size.  Far from it.  The size and shaping melds and changes to fit the form which best relates the story.

And, Phil, there can be narration in a graphic novel.  I’ve seen it done and it can be carried of well.  But, I would not want to see The Silmarillion handed off to just anybody if it was ever given permission to become a graphic novel.  I’d shudder to think of it in the hands of many people in the comics industry.  But, if it could find the right people, who are considered about rendering things accurately, and rendering them well, I think it could be pulled off.

Endril 19/Sep/2006 at 12:36 PM
Healer of Imladris Points: 9193 Posts: 9362 Joined: 15/Jan/2006
I actually understand that a comic book is something funny and I dodn’t think that it could be taken serious by someone. Varda: I only heard that a comic book can be serious only because you said that now. I never heared that before. But you are right, because of the graphics a comic book can’t be taken serious. Most of them have bad graphics.
Endril 19/Sep/2006 at 12:36 PM
Healer of Imladris Points: 9193 Posts: 9362 Joined: 15/Jan/2006
I actually understand that a comic book is something funny and I dodn’t think that it could be taken serious by someone. Varda: I only heard that a comic book can be serious only because you said that now. I never heared that before. But you are right, because of the graphics a comic book can’t be taken serious. Most of them have bad graphics.
Mirima 19/Sep/2006 at 03:13 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 912 Posts: 307 Joined: 06/Sep/2006

I’m with Legolas and Varda on this one.  I can’t imagine that the Silmarillion could be made into a comic book in any way that could satisfy hardcore fans.  The animated video version of The Hobbit comes to mind.  The animation was mediocre. To the makers’ credit, they did stick with the plot pretty well.  However, the Silmarillion, like was mentioned earlier, is more a narrative work, and the plot is incredibly detailed. probably too detailed for a comic book

Mirima 19/Sep/2006 at 03:13 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 912 Posts: 307 Joined: 06/Sep/2006

I’m with Legolas and Varda on this one.  I can’t imagine that the Silmarillion could be made into a comic book in any way that could satisfy hardcore fans.  The animated video version of The Hobbit comes to mind.  The animation was mediocre. To the makers’ credit, they did stick with the plot pretty well.  However, the Silmarillion, like was mentioned earlier, is more a narrative work, and the plot is incredibly detailed. probably too detailed for a comic book

Crystophalax 20/Sep/2006 at 03:45 PM
Farmer of the Shire Points: 389 Posts: 71 Joined: 18/May/2006
I find it quite amazing that nobody has produced a comic adaption of LOTR yet, especially since the release of the movies. Surely someone must have tried to negotiate the rights for this?
As for a comic version of The Silmarillion: I think it’s a great idea as the narrative would work really well with pictures, possibly making it more accessable for people who are put off by the lack of reader/character empathy. Of course, it could be awfull, but I own the Hobbit comic and that’s no too bad at all (imho).
What suprises me is some of the views expressed above about comics as a medium. If ’backwards’ is too offencive a term to describe these views then I’ll settle for ’uninformed’ as a more tactful substitute.

Phil-d-one "There is minimal to no narration"

There’s as much or as little narration as the writer wants to include. A comic can be all narration with no dialogue.

Legolas "I actually understand that a comic book is something funny and I dodn’t think that it could be taken serious by someone. Varda: I only heard that a comic book can be serious only because you said that now. I never heared that before. But you are right, because of the graphics a comic book can’t be taken serious. Most of them have bad graphics."

This is joke right?

People keep saying that the plot would have to be simplified, but why? A comic plot can be as complicated as you want, and the art can be in any style you want. It doesn’t have to be a cell shaded Marvel affair. If you read Allen Moores graphic novels you will find they’re more complex and involving than many a regular novel. Art wise, Ian Miller’s images for James Herberts ’The City’ spring to mind as being different and ’grown up’, or perhaps Simon Bisely’s work for ’Slaine the Horned God’.

Don’t knock comics before you look into their history and diversity a bit, and of course, go to Japan!
Crystophalax 20/Sep/2006 at 03:45 PM
Farmer of the Shire Points: 389 Posts: 71 Joined: 18/May/2006
I find it quite amazing that nobody has produced a comic adaption of LOTR yet, especially since the release of the movies. Surely someone must have tried to negotiate the rights for this?
As for a comic version of The Silmarillion: I think it’s a great idea as the narrative would work really well with pictures, possibly making it more accessable for people who are put off by the lack of reader/character empathy. Of course, it could be awfull, but I own the Hobbit comic and that’s no too bad at all (imho).
What suprises me is some of the views expressed above about comics as a medium. If ’backwards’ is too offencive a term to describe these views then I’ll settle for ’uninformed’ as a more tactful substitute.

Phil-d-one "There is minimal to no narration"

There’s as much or as little narration as the writer wants to include. A comic can be all narration with no dialogue.

Legolas "I actually understand that a comic book is something funny and I dodn’t think that it could be taken serious by someone. Varda: I only heard that a comic book can be serious only because you said that now. I never heared that before. But you are right, because of the graphics a comic book can’t be taken serious. Most of them have bad graphics."

This is joke right?

People keep saying that the plot would have to be simplified, but why? A comic plot can be as complicated as you want, and the art can be in any style you want. It doesn’t have to be a cell shaded Marvel affair. If you read Allen Moores graphic novels you will find they’re more complex and involving than many a regular novel. Art wise, Ian Miller’s images for James Herberts ’The City’ spring to mind as being different and ’grown up’, or perhaps Simon Bisely’s work for ’Slaine the Horned God’.

Don’t knock comics before you look into their history and diversity a bit, and of course, go to Japan!
geordie 20/Sep/2006 at 03:56 PM
Hugo Bracegirdle Points: 20570 Posts: 14087 Joined: 06/Mar/2005
I’d like to refer back to my comments about the Hobbit graphic novel. This is very well drawn; and the narrative is all there! Well, as far as I can remember.

I think Silm is just the sort of story which could be done well, with the right artist and a truly sympathetic treatment of the story [stories]. But, as I said, the rights lie with the family. I don’t know what their position would be.
geordie 20/Sep/2006 at 03:56 PM
Hugo Bracegirdle Points: 20570 Posts: 14087 Joined: 06/Mar/2005
I’d like to refer back to my comments about the Hobbit graphic novel. This is very well drawn; and the narrative is all there! Well, as far as I can remember.

I think Silm is just the sort of story which could be done well, with the right artist and a truly sympathetic treatment of the story [stories]. But, as I said, the rights lie with the family. I don’t know what their position would be.
Turambar_77 22/Sep/2006 at 12:57 PM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 417 Posts: 275 Joined: 08/Sep/2006
I agree to most of you here, because I think that Tolkiens characters are too serious to be made into a comic. The Hobbit is another thing, as it is read- mainly- by children, and it’s a more amusing, entertaining story. And, as someone already mentioned, Tolkien would turn in his grave if he knew it!!!
Personally, I’m not a great fan of comic books anyway. The only comic book I ever read was Lucky Luke and I thought it was pretty ridiculous. However, that is, of course a prejudice...
Turambar_77 22/Sep/2006 at 12:57 PM
Mercenary of Minas Tirith Points: 417 Posts: 275 Joined: 08/Sep/2006
I agree to most of you here, because I think that Tolkiens characters are too serious to be made into a comic. The Hobbit is another thing, as it is read- mainly- by children, and it’s a more amusing, entertaining story. And, as someone already mentioned, Tolkien would turn in his grave if he knew it!!!
Personally, I’m not a great fan of comic books anyway. The only comic book I ever read was Lucky Luke and I thought it was pretty ridiculous. However, that is, of course a prejudice...
Padmé Amidala 22/Sep/2006 at 01:47 PM
New Soul Points: 3033 Posts: 4907 Joined: 03/May/2003

I do not understand why everyone assumes that a comic book has to be funny. It’s not just Mickey Mouse and Superman you know - you have amazing achievements within the comic book/graphic novel world when it comes to storytelling/narrative technique/illustrations and so on that doesn’t include comedies- and a graphic novel can be as serious and complex as the author intends it to be. The stories in the Silmarillion would not have to be simplified or made "lighter" at all - the graphic novel is a medium that can express all the genres we have within literature: comedies, drama, detective stories, fantasy, science fiction - the sky’s the limit.

Take for example V for Vendetta, a graphic novel I expect many to know because of the recently made movie - would you call that story funny? Light hearted? I don’t think so.

And as mentioned before, there can be a lot of narration in graphic novels too - it’s up to the author, but you shouldn’t underestimate the amount of words or messages or feelings that can be conveyed by an illustration. So I have to agree with geordie here, I think the stories of the Silm could be very well done.

Padmé Amidala 22/Sep/2006 at 01:47 PM
New Soul Points: 3033 Posts: 4907 Joined: 03/May/2003

I do not understand why everyone assumes that a comic book has to be funny. It’s not just Mickey Mouse and Superman you know - you have amazing achievements within the comic book/graphic novel world when it comes to storytelling/narrative technique/illustrations and so on that doesn’t include comedies- and a graphic novel can be as serious and complex as the author intends it to be. The stories in the Silmarillion would not have to be simplified or made "lighter" at all - the graphic novel is a medium that can express all the genres we have within literature: comedies, drama, detective stories, fantasy, science fiction - the sky’s the limit.

Take for example V for Vendetta, a graphic novel I expect many to know because of the recently made movie - would you call that story funny? Light hearted? I don’t think so.

And as mentioned before, there can be a lot of narration in graphic novels too - it’s up to the author, but you shouldn’t underestimate the amount of words or messages or feelings that can be conveyed by an illustration. So I have to agree with geordie here, I think the stories of the Silm could be very well done.

Laielinwen 23/Sep/2006 at 11:52 PM
New Soul Points: 31115 Posts: 27324 Joined: 16/Mar/2002
I really don’t think the Sil could be done justice in a comic book or graphic novel. However... I do think that as a way to visually sort all the characters that are introduced it may be a fine thing to use in addition to the Book. I know the first time I read it I started over with paper and pencil to try to get the Valar straight. The plaza has helped a lot with that in the end... haha As with any comic or graphic novel you will miss alot, but it could be an enjoyable experience for some and it might even spark interest that would lead to more reading the book and more easily comprehending the characters. Though I also think a mental challenge is good for a person so I’d hate to think that someone never gave the Sil a go because they just did the comic/graphic novel.
Laielinwen 23/Sep/2006 at 11:52 PM
New Soul Points: 31115 Posts: 27324 Joined: 16/Mar/2002
I really don’t think the Sil could be done justice in a comic book or graphic novel. However... I do think that as a way to visually sort all the characters that are introduced it may be a fine thing to use in addition to the Book. I know the first time I read it I started over with paper and pencil to try to get the Valar straight. The plaza has helped a lot with that in the end... haha As with any comic or graphic novel you will miss alot, but it could be an enjoyable experience for some and it might even spark interest that would lead to more reading the book and more easily comprehending the characters. Though I also think a mental challenge is good for a person so I’d hate to think that someone never gave the Sil a go because they just did the comic/graphic novel.
Battlehamster 11/Nov/2006 at 06:15 PM
Horse-lord of the Mark Points: 1401 Posts: 515 Joined: 10/Nov/2006
NO! I have never been a graphic novel fan (except for some manga) and I really don’t think that it would make sense at all in that form.  So much of Tolkien’s writing is the beautiful way he describes things and the language he uses.  I really don’t believe that Silmarillion would work as a comic book.  Everything would have to be shown, and frankly, a lot of it would look kind of stupid someone actually tried to show it comic book style.  Things like a lot of the Valar, especially Melkor, and the Silmarils.  I just don’t think a comic book could do them justice.
Battlehamster 11/Nov/2006 at 06:15 PM
Horse-lord of the Mark Points: 1401 Posts: 515 Joined: 10/Nov/2006
NO! I have never been a graphic novel fan (except for some manga) and I really don’t think that it would make sense at all in that form.  So much of Tolkien’s writing is the beautiful way he describes things and the language he uses.  I really don’t believe that Silmarillion would work as a comic book.  Everything would have to be shown, and frankly, a lot of it would look kind of stupid someone actually tried to show it comic book style.  Things like a lot of the Valar, especially Melkor, and the Silmarils.  I just don’t think a comic book could do them justice.
Captain Bingo 12/Nov/2006 at 07:34 AM
Messenger of Minas Tirith Points: 1573 Posts: 957 Joined: 31/Jan/2006
Not quite on topic, but has anyone else read Heaven’s War a recent graphic novel by Micah Harris & Michael Gaydos? Its set in the 30’s & ’stars’ Tolkien, Lewis & Williams taking on Aleister Crowley in order to save the world.

Actually its not that bad, & is very much in the style of Williams ’spiritual thrillers’. Available here

Maddest thing I’ve read in a long time, but as I say, its quite faithful to William’s philosophy, & its nice to see old JRRT in a comicbook.
Captain Bingo 12/Nov/2006 at 07:34 AM
Messenger of Minas Tirith Points: 1573 Posts: 957 Joined: 31/Jan/2006
Not quite on topic, but has anyone else read Heaven’s War a recent graphic novel by Micah Harris & Michael Gaydos? Its set in the 30’s & ’stars’ Tolkien, Lewis & Williams taking on Aleister Crowley in order to save the world.

Actually its not that bad, & is very much in the style of Williams ’spiritual thrillers’. Available here

Maddest thing I’ve read in a long time, but as I say, its quite faithful to William’s philosophy, & its nice to see old JRRT in a comicbook.
geordie 12/Nov/2006 at 12:10 PM
Hugo Bracegirdle Points: 20570 Posts: 14087 Joined: 06/Mar/2005
Capn’ - as you might imagine, I have a copy! Never got far into it, though. Seems a bit odd to me. Maybe I need to know more about Williams and his novels to ’get it’. But a friend of mine in the TS, Jessica Yates, saw my copy at one of our informal ’smials’ some time ago, and was v. impressed. And Jessie knows far more than I do about Tolkien and all that.
geordie 12/Nov/2006 at 12:10 PM
Hugo Bracegirdle Points: 20570 Posts: 14087 Joined: 06/Mar/2005
Capn’ - as you might imagine, I have a copy! Never got far into it, though. Seems a bit odd to me. Maybe I need to know more about Williams and his novels to ’get it’. But a friend of mine in the TS, Jessica Yates, saw my copy at one of our informal ’smials’ some time ago, and was v. impressed. And Jessie knows far more than I do about Tolkien and all that.
Captain Bingo 12/Nov/2006 at 12:21 PM
Messenger of Minas Tirith Points: 1573 Posts: 957 Joined: 31/Jan/2006
geordie Its clear the author is American. He seems to think that it was possible to get from Oxford to France in a couple of hours in the Thirties. And I noticed that the ’Eagle & Child’ sign actually says ’Bird & Baby.

Its an odd work. We do know that Williams had been a member of the Golden Dawn occult society that AE Waite led & that Crowley was also a member (not, I think, at the same time). I seem to recall that Lewis was also interested in the occult in his youth, & I’m sure that the subject would have come up in Inklings discussions during discussions of William’s works. Crowley does make an appearance (under another name) in Williams last novel ’All Hallows Eve’.

Captain Bingo 12/Nov/2006 at 12:21 PM
Messenger of Minas Tirith Points: 1573 Posts: 957 Joined: 31/Jan/2006
geordie Its clear the author is American. He seems to think that it was possible to get from Oxford to France in a couple of hours in the Thirties. And I noticed that the ’Eagle & Child’ sign actually says ’Bird & Baby.

Its an odd work. We do know that Williams had been a member of the Golden Dawn occult society that AE Waite led & that Crowley was also a member (not, I think, at the same time). I seem to recall that Lewis was also interested in the occult in his youth, & I’m sure that the subject would have come up in Inklings discussions during discussions of William’s works. Crowley does make an appearance (under another name) in Williams last novel ’All Hallows Eve’.

Hithleen Eltoran 25/Nov/2006 at 10:48 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2203 Posts: 1628 Joined: 28/Oct/2006
I just wanted to add to this topic:  For very young children, who want more of Tolkien, the Silm is almost an impossible read.  A Comic or Graphic Novel would be a great way for them to get a start on it.  When I was very young my Mom got some "Classic" comics for me - Lorna Doone is the first to pop into mind.  When I was older I read the real Lorna Doone, all because of my memories of the Comic book.  I say whatever gets children to read has got to be a good thing.
Hithleen Eltoran 25/Nov/2006 at 10:48 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2203 Posts: 1628 Joined: 28/Oct/2006
I just wanted to add to this topic:  For very young children, who want more of Tolkien, the Silm is almost an impossible read.  A Comic or Graphic Novel would be a great way for them to get a start on it.  When I was very young my Mom got some "Classic" comics for me - Lorna Doone is the first to pop into mind.  When I was older I read the real Lorna Doone, all because of my memories of the Comic book.  I say whatever gets children to read has got to be a good thing.
TobiasFalco 26/Nov/2006 at 10:42 AM
Stablemaster of the Mark Points: 697 Posts: 328 Joined: 05/Nov/2006
Quote: Originally posted by Hithleen on Saturday, November 25, 2006
I just wanted to add to this topic: For very young children, who want more of Tolkien, the Silm is almost an impossible read. A Comic or Graphic Novel would be a great way for them to get a start on it.


Well my question and point to you Hithleen would be; how could you take a scholarly read and turn it into a comic book for younger children without completely taking away the scholarly context and story? You would almost have to dumb down the book in order to make it for children and not saying that wouldn’t be nice for them; they would loose the whole feel and intellect gained by reading the book; would they not?
TobiasFalco 26/Nov/2006 at 10:42 AM
Stablemaster of the Mark Points: 697 Posts: 328 Joined: 05/Nov/2006
Quote: Originally posted by Hithleen on Saturday, November 25, 2006
I just wanted to add to this topic: For very young children, who want more of Tolkien, the Silm is almost an impossible read. A Comic or Graphic Novel would be a great way for them to get a start on it.


Well my question and point to you Hithleen would be; how could you take a scholarly read and turn it into a comic book for younger children without completely taking away the scholarly context and story? You would almost have to dumb down the book in order to make it for children and not saying that wouldn’t be nice for them; they would loose the whole feel and intellect gained by reading the book; would they not?
Hithleen Eltoran 26/Nov/2006 at 01:53 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2203 Posts: 1628 Joined: 28/Oct/2006

I agree, if scholastic’s is what a person is looking for, a comic book would not be suitable. 
However, a love of reading must come first.  I am in favour of encouraging children to read, and if they don’t enjoy it they won’t.   All too often these days children do not read.  They sit in front of the Television, play video games etc.  Learning to enjoy reading can open up a whole new world to them.  If the Silm was made into a comic or graphic novel, it needn’t be "dumbed" down, but simplified.  With care, the history of Middle Earth could be presented in a format children could understand, and heighten curiousity enough to encourage children to read the proper book, when old enough.

Hithleen Eltoran 26/Nov/2006 at 01:53 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2203 Posts: 1628 Joined: 28/Oct/2006

I agree, if scholastic’s is what a person is looking for, a comic book would not be suitable. 
However, a love of reading must come first.  I am in favour of encouraging children to read, and if they don’t enjoy it they won’t.   All too often these days children do not read.  They sit in front of the Television, play video games etc.  Learning to enjoy reading can open up a whole new world to them.  If the Silm was made into a comic or graphic novel, it needn’t be "dumbed" down, but simplified.  With care, the history of Middle Earth could be presented in a format children could understand, and heighten curiousity enough to encourage children to read the proper book, when old enough.

Bobadillo 26/Nov/2006 at 06:18 PM
Farmer of the Shire Points: 452 Posts: 31 Joined: 06/Aug/2005
I do not think that the Silm is adressed to children. They will only see it superficialy whether they read the book or read a comic.
Bobadillo 26/Nov/2006 at 06:18 PM
Farmer of the Shire Points: 452 Posts: 31 Joined: 06/Aug/2005
I do not think that the Silm is adressed to children. They will only see it superficialy whether they read the book or read a comic.
Hithleen Eltoran 26/Nov/2006 at 06:33 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2203 Posts: 1628 Joined: 28/Oct/2006
You’re right it’s not a children’s book, however I know from my own nieces and nephews that they are curious.  My point is only that it would be another way to encourage interested children to read.
Hithleen Eltoran 26/Nov/2006 at 06:33 PM
Librarian of Imladris Points: 2203 Posts: 1628 Joined: 28/Oct/2006
You’re right it’s not a children’s book, however I know from my own nieces and nephews that they are curious.  My point is only that it would be another way to encourage interested children to read.
Ankala Teaweed 29/Nov/2006 at 05:49 PM
March Warden of the Shire Points: 6116 Posts: 4487 Joined: 15/Apr/2002

I like graphic novels and manga, et cetera, but I really think it would lose too much in translation. I would rather see a movie than a comic of The Silmarillion.

And, it really cracks me up the folks who are so negative about film adaptations that are fine with comic books. It seems very illogical to me. 

Ankala Teaweed 29/Nov/2006 at 05:49 PM
March Warden of the Shire Points: 6116 Posts: 4487 Joined: 15/Apr/2002

I like graphic novels and manga, et cetera, but I really think it would lose too much in translation. I would rather see a movie than a comic of The Silmarillion.

And, it really cracks me up the folks who are so negative about film adaptations that are fine with comic books. It seems very illogical to me. 

>*Styxane*< 29/Nov/2006 at 09:10 PM
Banned Points: 144 Posts: 26 Joined: 28/Nov/2006

It can be trranslate into comic but silmarilion is hard to translate into comic because it contents many things and this silmarilion books is for older people to read such as from age 14 to.............. If it is translate into comic, i think few people will read it. They prefer the book’s contain with words than pictures.

>*Styxane*< 29/Nov/2006 at 09:10 PM
Banned Points: 144 Posts: 26 Joined: 28/Nov/2006

It can be trranslate into comic but silmarilion is hard to translate into comic because it contents many things and this silmarilion books is for older people to read such as from age 14 to.............. If it is translate into comic, i think few people will read it. They prefer the book’s contain with words than pictures.

Nenarye 29/Nov/2006 at 10:07 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 839 Posts: 376 Joined: 08/Oct/2006
Ann Kalagon - I’m not sure if a movie could really convey the ideas in the Sil properly, but lets not get into that, as there is a whole other thread for that.

"And, it really cracks me up the folks who are so negative about film adaptations that are fine with comic books. It seems very illogical to me."

I see what your saying, but people only want to watch a movie that is 2-3 hours long. PJ was cutting it close with the extended version of ROTK at 4 hours. However, a comic book really can be as long as you want it to be. It doesn’t have to be to be read in one sitting or anything. I mean, I still don’t think there should be a Sil comic made either though, because even in a long long long comic book, I don’t think it could get the mainly narrative book across properly.

I think I might be arguing for the sake of arguing, and people do say I could argue with a door knob
Nenarye 29/Nov/2006 at 10:07 PM
Defender of Imladris Points: 839 Posts: 376 Joined: 08/Oct/2006
Ann Kalagon - I’m not sure if a movie could really convey the ideas in the Sil properly, but lets not get into that, as there is a whole other thread for that.

"And, it really cracks me up the folks who are so negative about film adaptations that are fine with comic books. It seems very illogical to me."

I see what your saying, but people only want to watch a movie that is 2-3 hours long. PJ was cutting it close with the extended version of ROTK at 4 hours. However, a comic book really can be as long as you want it to be. It doesn’t have to be to be read in one sitting or anything. I mean, I still don’t think there should be a Sil comic made either though, because even in a long long long comic book, I don’t think it could get the mainly narrative book across properly.

I think I might be arguing for the sake of arguing, and people do say I could argue with a door knob
Blackrose Bugg 29/Nov/2006 at 10:47 PM
New Soul Points: 21505 Posts: 30286 Joined: 19/Jan/2003

I don’t know how many people were aware of these additional sites that were part of the LOTR fanatics network before the Plaza split off into its own entity - but here is an example of what the SIl should NOT be.  This is comic book style...and wholly unsuitable, IMHHO.  However, something along the lines of the more art driven graphic novel as mentioned above is something I would be interested in- as a long term Tolkien fan who would love to see the possible interpretations available through the eyes of various artists- possible having a compilation done by a number of artists - each doing one "story" (Beren and Luthien, Tuor, etc.)

http://www.lordotrings.com/artmedia/comics.asp

Blackrose Bugg 29/Nov/2006 at 10:47 PM
New Soul Points: 21505 Posts: 30286 Joined: 19/Jan/2003

I don’t know how many people were aware of these additional sites that were part of the LOTR fanatics network before the Plaza split off into its own entity - but here is an example of what the SIl should NOT be.  This is comic book style...and wholly unsuitable, IMHHO.  However, something along the lines of the more art driven graphic novel as mentioned above is something I would be interested in- as a long term Tolkien fan who would love to see the possible interpretations available through the eyes of various artists- possible having a compilation done by a number of artists - each doing one "story" (Beren and Luthien, Tuor, etc.)

http://www.lordotrings.com/artmedia/comics.asp

Narmaethor 30/Nov/2006 at 09:27 AM
Merchant of Mirkwood Points: 690 Posts: 6115 Joined: 27/Nov/2006
I think their would many people who would enjoy the silmarillion as a comic book. personally I love to read, but I hav e one friend who is a huge LotR fan who does not like to read at all but I think he would enjoy a comic book very much
Narmaethor 30/Nov/2006 at 09:27 AM
Merchant of Mirkwood Points: 690 Posts: 6115 Joined: 27/Nov/2006
I think their would many people who would enjoy the silmarillion as a comic book. personally I love to read, but I hav e one friend who is a huge LotR fan who does not like to read at all but I think he would enjoy a comic book very much
Nenarye 30/Nov/2006 at 09:32 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 839 Posts: 376 Joined: 08/Oct/2006
"having a compilation done by a number of artists - each doing one "story" (Beren and Luthien, Tuor, etc.)"

Great idea. I would definitely be interested in that. And, I imagine that it would sell relatively well, even with people who aren’t particularly enamored of Tolkien and his works . . .
Nenarye 30/Nov/2006 at 09:32 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 839 Posts: 376 Joined: 08/Oct/2006
"having a compilation done by a number of artists - each doing one "story" (Beren and Luthien, Tuor, etc.)"

Great idea. I would definitely be interested in that. And, I imagine that it would sell relatively well, even with people who aren’t particularly enamored of Tolkien and his works . . .
Tenharien Calmcacil 30/Nov/2006 at 09:18 PM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2766 Posts: 1583 Joined: 25/Aug/2008
I always thought that there should be some type of Lord of the rings comic, maybe even a trade mini or something, like what they do wiht the star wars books. Granted, it would either be hated or loved but at least it would be something. I know for dang sure id love a comic version of the lord of the rings.
Tenharien Calmcacil 30/Nov/2006 at 09:18 PM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2766 Posts: 1583 Joined: 25/Aug/2008
I always thought that there should be some type of Lord of the rings comic, maybe even a trade mini or something, like what they do wiht the star wars books. Granted, it would either be hated or loved but at least it would be something. I know for dang sure id love a comic version of the lord of the rings.
Blackrose Bugg 07/Dec/2006 at 11:39 AM
New Soul Points: 21505 Posts: 30286 Joined: 19/Jan/2003

  Legolas Fireblade Friday, December 01, 2006 at 03:15
  Earendil     Points: 3537     Posts: 3700     Days: 326  
Blackrose:  they are a bit funny. But the comic book shouldn’t be like that, with all the humour that transforms it in a parody. It should tell the real story with resonable characters and also it should have some better graphics as well. Also they should use the names made by Tolkien.
  Radalas Monday, December 04, 2006 at 11:51
  Councillor of Imladris     Points: 800     Posts: 646     Days: 651  
Quote: Originally posted by Nenarye on Wednesday, November 29, 2006
Ann Kalagon - I’m not sure if a movie could really convey the ideas in the Sil properly, but lets not get into that, as there is a whole other thread for that.

"And, it really cracks me up the folks who are so negative about film adaptations that are fine with comic books. It seems very illogical to me."

I see what your saying, but people only want to watch a movie that is 2-3 hours long. PJ was cutting it close with the extended version of ROTK at 4 hours. However, a comic book really can be as long as you want it to be. It doesn’t have to be to be read in one sitting or anything. I mean, I still don’t think there should be a Sil comic made either though, because even in a long long long comic book, I don’t think it could get the mainly narrative book across properly.

I think I might be arguing for the sake of arguing, and people do say I could argue with a door knob
There is narration in comics.  The enite text of The Silmarillion could be written in narration ’bubbles’ along with pictures in the background of the action in the text.  This would attract children.  It would however need to be a lengthy series wheather comic or graphic novel.
  Nenarye  Monday, December 04, 2006 at 13:08
  Elder of Imladris     Points: 476     Posts: 153     Days: 60  
Radalas - That would be a heck of a lot of bubbles!

Even as a comic book, I’m not sure if it would attract children. The material would still be the same, and would still be boring to children.


All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost
Oh, I am still Nénaryé, just without the accents.

  Ann Kalagon Monday, December 04, 2006 at 14:29
  Dunadan of Gondor     Points: 2274     Posts: 1692     Days: 1697    

Radalas, why should children be the focus? What purpose would it serve but to "dumb it down"?

I just don’t see the point.
(Nenarye! one heck of a lot of bubbles!   )

  Radalas Monday, December 04, 2006 at 15:57
  Councillor of Imladris     Points: 800     Posts: 646     Days: 651    
I said the exact same text as in The Silmarillion transferred into a graphic novel or comic book.  How is that dumbing it down?  The pictures would attract more children but they are not the only focus;  I would be interested in a Graphic Novel version of any of Tolkien’s works.
  Nenarye Monday, December 04, 2006 at 16:08
  Elder of Imladris     Points: 476     Posts: 153     Days: 60    
Radalas - I don’t think it’s dumbing it down, it’s just that every word of the Sil in a comic book would make for a ridiculous amount of pages. Not to mention that it would take a lot longer to read individual bubbles


All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost
Oh, I am still Nénaryé, just without the accents.

  Ann Kalagon  Monday, December 04, 2006 at 19:09
  Dunadan of Gondor     Points: 2274     Posts: 1692     Days: 1697  

Yes, it would make so many pages that indeed a good part of it would have to be cut and then incrediby condensed. Therefore it would, in the process, be dumbed down. Yesss, precioussss!

With all due respect, Radalas, and with all respect to followers of manga, et al graphic novels, you will be better off reading the books. And still I ask you, why bother trying to attract children? (Give them The Hobbit, and let them follow up as they grow up and their reading levels improve. That is, if they happen to like fantasy.)

  Nenarye  Monday, December 04, 2006 at 19:29
  Elder of Imladris     Points: 476     Posts: 153     Days: 60  
Ann Kalagon - Hopefully reading The Hobbit would get children into fantasy, as it did me, and I’m sure many other people around here. And yeah, why bother atracting children? I’m pretty sure that they would find a comic book on the Sil pretty boring, with all the other comics they are used to like Batman, Superman, The fantastic Five, Sin City . . . The list goes on and on!


All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost
Oh, I am still Nénaryé, just without the accents.

  Radalas  Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 07:37
  Councillor of Imladris     Points: 800     Posts: 646     Days: 651    

Ann- Why would it need to be cut and condensed?  Long comic storylines exsist and the narritive text could be along the sides of the pages with the pictures inbetween and the speech bubbles could be like every other comic but as I’m sure you know there isn’t much speech in The Silmarillion it’s mostly narration.  Also I have tried to bring the attraction of children into my posts because that is what the thread starter wanted to talk about.

  Tenharien   Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 07:45
  Archer of Lothlorien     Points: 334     Posts: 140     Days: 7    
Well it really depends on the company that does the comic first of all, cuz thats a HUGE deal. Especially when it comes to the lord of the rigns. The Star wars comics are good, though some dont appeal to me, at leats they are done with good quality and if i wanted to read them i would, but i do not uy them. What i would buy is a LOTR comic, based on anything. Oh, Nenarye, i think you meant four, but thats alright.

"You can stop a rose from growing if you nip it in the bud, but you cant stop the stream from flowing and you cannot stop the flood."
  Nenarye Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 07:46
  Elder of Imladris     Points: 476     Posts: 153     Days: 60    
If you were to put every word of the Sil in bubbles, the amount of speech bubbles would be staggaring. Why not just read the book? To read the Sil bubbles, it would take sooo long . . .


All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost
Oh, I am still Nénaryé, just without the accents.

  Nenarye  Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 08:02
  Elder of Imladris     Points: 476     Posts: 153     Days: 60   
But enough of this. Lets move on to a more interesting subject.

Tenharien - Where did I mean four?   


All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost
Oh, I am still Nénaryé, just without the accents.

  Radalas Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 08:27
  Councillor of Imladris     Points: 800     Posts: 646     Days: 651    

Nenarye- Because with a comic or graphic novel we could look at pictures and see all the pretty colors



The Artist Formerly Known As Tharanduil
  Nenarye  Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 08:42
  Elder of Imladris     Points: 476     Posts: 153     Days: 60   
Radalas - I guess it would be nice, but its not really nessisary. You might as well just read the book, because the Sil isn’t about the pretty colors. But lets move on to a more interesting topic, or just let this one slowing die down. Either way we are just arguing back and forth rather pointlessly . . .


All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost
Oh, I am still Nénaryé, just without the accents.

  Tenharien Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 09:03
  Archer of Lothlorien     Points: 334     Posts: 140     Days: 7   
Nenarye You said fantastic five. You meant to write fanatastic four. Whatever though, its no big deal, just saying.

I guess when reading the silmarillion i skimmed it because i couldnt check it out of the library. Are there stories in there? To tell you the truth id rather see the lord of the rings in a grapic novel, just to be able read it and look at pictures. Granted there would be a lot cut out, but i dont really care, if i want to read the rest ill pic up the book.

"You can stop a rose from growing if you nip it in the bud, but you cant stop the stream from flowing and you cannot stop the flood."

Oh, and Nenarye, my rpg is up now in the rpg section. Shameless plug, i know, lol.

"You can stop a rose from growing if you nip it in the bud, but you cant stop the stream from flowing and you cannot stop the flood."
  Nenarye Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 11:31
  Elder of Imladris     Points: 476     Posts: 153     Days: 60    
Tenharien - Oh, ok, got you.   I don’t read to many comic books exept for Sin City and V for Vendetta . . .

And are you saying you read the Sil in one sitting at the Library? Or did you visite the it every day for a few hours to read? I can’t imagine reading it all in one sitting.   

I’ll check out your RP too.


All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost
Oh, I am still Nénaryé, just without the accents.

  Tenharien Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 11:51
  Archer of Lothlorien     Points: 334     Posts: 140     Days: 7   
Yeah pretty much Nenarye lol i had no choice, i skipped from page 15, to 100, to 30, back to 123, etc for about 15 mins trying to read what i could because the place was closing and i had to return it before then.

"You can stop a rose from growing if you nip it in the bud, but you cant stop the stream from flowing and you cannot stop the flood."
  Laielinwen  Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 12:02
  Pengolodh     Points: 27354     Posts: 24535     Days: 1727    
Quote: Originally posted by Ann Kalagon on Monday, December 04, 2006
Yes, it with all respect to followers of manga, et al graphic novels, you will be better off reading the books. And still I ask you, why bother trying to attract children? (Give them The Hobbit, and let them follow up as they grow up and their reading levels improve. That is, if they happen to like fantasy.)
I agree Ann. The Sil isn’t really suitable for Children and the complexity of it doesn’t lend itself well to a comic book/graphic novel. That is my opinion any way. I also think children should start out on the hobbit and as their reading comprehension level allows... move on to the LOTR. Reading the meat is better than slurping soup with a few chunks of erm... yeah.

The ROAD goes ever on and on... down from the door where it began...
Heru Envinyatar ~ Royal Master Healer of Minas Tirith & the Elite Rangers
  Jinniver Thynne Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 14:08
  Scholar of Gondor     Points: 944     Posts: 394     Days: 313    
I’d actually like to see a graphic novel version of the Sil, but not a simplified version, a proper adult version without any ’dumbing down’. If done by the Vertigo imprint it might be a quality product which could add value - I’m thinking now how much I’d like to see Charles Vess illustrations. If you want to see his work then try the ’graphic novel’ version of Gaiman’s Stardust, it’s just beautiful. Now, this is classed as a graphic novel, but it does not have ’speech bubbles’, in fact the entire text is printed alongside the extensive illustrations - there are so many that it goes beyond being an ’illustrated’ novel. If the Sil could be made into a beautiful graphic novel like that, then I’d buy it. Well, I’d buy it anyway, just to check it out, but I’d enjoy it if it was a quality, sympathetically created book, as it could be in the right hands.
  Nenarye Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 14:14
  Elder of Imladris     Points: 476     Posts: 153     Days: 60    
But as I was saying before Jinniver, to put the Sil into a comic without dumbing it down would make for a gross amount of pages and volumes. I agree that seeing it illustrated would indeed be very cool, it’s just to write all the naritive of a mainly naritive book in bubbles seems outrageous. And yeah, if one were to be published, I would buy it to, just becuase it was another Tolkien related thing


All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost
Oh, I am still Nénaryé, just without the accents.

  Radalas Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 16:50
  Councillor of Imladris     Points: 800     Posts: 646     Days: 651   
No bubbles.  The should be in the margins next to the pictures.

The Artist Formerly Known As Tharanduil
  Tenharien Tuesday, December 05, 2006 at 19:38
  Archer of Lothlorien     Points: 334     Posts: 140     Days: 7  
I think a book like the Hobbit could be done as a comic (if it already hasnt, i cant remember) But yes, i do think depending on how many issues a company,a nd writer wants to do, it could be just as good, if your into that type of thing, i know i wouldbnt mind it. (i hate this keyboard)

"You can stop a rose from growing if you nip it in the bud, but you cant stop the stream from flowing and you cannot stop the flood."
  Laielinwen Wednesday, December 06, 2006 at 01:58
  Pengolodh     Points: 27354     Posts: 24535     Days: 1727    
I just can’t see how the Sil could be done in a graphic novel format without ’dumbing it down’. I have learned to never say never, but I just think it would lose so much; speech bubbles or not. However, I will say that if one was done I’d be curious to take a look at it. I guess another reason why I’m opposed to the idea is that the Sil is not an easy read. It takes effort and there are no shortcuts. I’m afraid making a graphic novel would be like a short cut to many who would never do the ’work’ of reading the real thing.

The ROAD goes ever on and on... down from the door where it began...
Heru Envinyatar ~ Royal Master Healer of Minas Tirith & the Elite Rangers
  geordie Wednesday, December 06, 2006 at 05:43
  Councilor of Gondor     Points: 5115     Posts: 4180     Days: 641  
Since the front page of this thread seems to have disappeared - I’d like to repeat what I wrote some time ago. In support of Jinniver, mainly. I hear the words ’dumbing down’ in just about every second post. Yet folk keep saying; there is no need for a story to be ’dumbed down’ in order to be put into the pages of a graphic novel. Ann Kalagon’s quite right - why should such an adaptation be meant only for children? That would be a waste of time. I remember with pleasure an adaptation of Allan Quartermaine which I read in a UK comic in the 60s. A really good combination of adaptation with the original.

The Hobbit has already been adapted - it’s a very good re-telling of the story, with a mixture of speech-bubbles and text blocks. Guess what! The text, and the dialogue, are all Tolkien! Not an ’adaptor’s’ speech and text. Which is why I like this adaptation, and not the movies!

I se no reason why Silm. could not also be adapted in this way - though I’d like to see different artists; David Wenzel’s paintings are fine for TH, but you need something darker and grander for Silm.

It’s all in the books...
  Radalas   Wednesday, December 06, 2006 at 14:07
  Councillor of Imladris     Points: 800     Posts: 646     Days: 651    
Verotik comics does The Death Dealer comics and the images and art style is dark and if this would be done I would like to see them do it.

The Artist Formerly Known As Tharanduil
  Nenarye Wednesday, December 06, 2006 at 15:03
  Elder of Imladris     Points: 476     Posts: 153     Days: 60  
If a Sil comic were to be made, David LLoyd should be the man illustrating it. He was the guy that did the V for Vendetta comics. He’s a fabulous cartoonist.


All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost
Oh, I am still Nénaryé, just without the accents.

  Tenharien   Wednesday, December 06, 2006 at 16:08
  Archer of Lothlorien     Points: 334     Posts: 140     Days: 7    
Personally I think John Romita Jr. or Frank Cho would be great, Cho can draw just about any and every style, even those of unique artists. Writing would definately have to go to someone that knows the LOTR but after thats settleed, its all fair game for artists, but thats who id like to see.

"You can stop a rose from growing if you nip it in the bud, but you cant stop the stream from flowing and you cannot stop the flood."
  TobiasFalco Wednesday, December 06, 2006 at 16:51
  Theoden     Points: 422     Posts: 189     Days: 32    
Geordie would you mind giving a reference for TH comic book?! I was never aware such a thing was done. Now I am curious about this and if it was done as well as you said I could easily see your point on a straight adaptation into a multiple series book; I still worry about it getting dumbed down though.

As for an artist for the comic book if it were to ever happen I would pen Steve McNiven from Marvel Comics to do the book. His drawings have been next to none, especially in the Civil War series. They have proven to be dark, detailed, and realistic; exactly what you would need.





Tobias Falco
Dryhtguma of the Calvary, Master Blacksmith

  Dany Wednesday, December 06, 2006 at 17:19
  Councillor of Imladris     Points: 660     Posts: 1277     Days: 1453    
I agree with what Jinniver said about the Sil being transcribed into a graphic novel. Not only would it make reading it easier (that’s not to imply that I haven’t read it; I think I’ve read it about four times now, and plan to read it again fairly soon), but I personally really love seeing how artists interpret things that I see in my mind. It would take a pretty long time, though, and probably couldn’t be done all at once by one artist.
  geordie Thursday, December 07, 2006 at 11:27
  Councilor of Gondor     Points: 5115     Posts: 4180     Days: 641    
Tobias - yes, the book is published by Eclipse Books of Forestville California, 1989,1990. It’s available in hardback ISBN 1-56060-067-5
or softback ISBN 1-56060-054-3. It was originally published in three parts; and there’s also a signed edition [signed by the artist, that is].

The adaptation is by Charles Dixon with Sean Denny; the artist is David Wenzel.


It’s all in the books...

Blackrose Bugg 07/Dec/2006 at 11:40 AM
New Soul Points: 21505 Posts: 30286 Joined: 19/Jan/2003
Restored the entire discussion from the archives, feel free to continue!
Nenarye 07/Dec/2006 at 11:47 AM
Defender of Imladris Points: 839 Posts: 376 Joined: 08/Oct/2006
Thanks
Jinniver Thynne 07/Dec/2006 at 03:05 PM
Messenger of Minas Tirith Points: 994 Posts: 424 Joined: 28/Jan/2006

Cheers for the support there geordie!  Have you had a look at The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (book not film!)? This has Allan Quartermaine re-invented as a character.

Indeed, there is absolutely no reason why the Sil would have to be ’dumbed down’ for it to be ’translated’ into graphic novel format. I can see why people might think it might need to be - I used to assume all graphic novels were just ’comics’ until I picked up Sandman and did an about turn with my opinion; those books are most definitely for adults, and contain a lot of complex ideas. Since then I’ve explored more in the genre and it is most certainly not all ’dumbed down’.

There are also many ways of representing speech, and the ’bubble’ does not always have to look cliched but can be used creatively itself.

 

Lanthir Lamath 09/Dec/2006 at 01:26 AM
Vána Points: 14827 Posts: 14992 Joined: 25/Sep/2002

Actually, I recently discovered that a very famous and hard-to-read book by the french writer Marcel Proust (In search of lost time is it’s name, and the linky leads to Wikipedia), had been made into a comic book. At the time, I thought it a hysterical deed, because Proust is the quintessentially "impossible" author: impossible to translate, impossible to immitate, impossible to alter. Why? well in a few words: because he begins one phrase at the middle of page 1, and finishes it around the end of page 3. Not kidding.

However, ultimately, making it into a comic also makes it apprehensible; settings can be translated by images, while dialogs remain dialogs, and well, feelings and perceptions, can go into thought and narration, since of course there is a narrator.

All this to say that I do not think it impossible for the Silm to become a graphic novel, if the right mix of text and the right timelines were used... and of course, beautiful images, images to touch your heart like no other. Of course, the question of whether or not I think many people are able to respect the work is another matter alltogether!