Runes on top of LotR and Hobbit

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Milye 12/Sep/2006 at 06:42 AM
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I only own LotR and the Hobbit, so I’ve only noticed this there, but on the top and bottom of the title page (i.e. the title page inside the book), there are some runes. Has anyone translated them and if so, what do they mean?
Fanaro 12/Sep/2006 at 09:33 AM
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I had (at least Hobbit’s):

-"The hobbit" (title)
-"Five feet above and three may walk abreast" (border of the map)

I also had transcripted the moon runes, but I have not at this moment the text. It says, in english, the same that Elrond read in Rivendel, but I could send it to you in any moment.

If you mean the borders of the title page, I tried once and I think they have no mean.
Koranti 12/Sep/2006 at 01:16 PM
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Feanaro is quite right about The Hobbit.

In LotR, I have mananged to work out the top writings which reads:

The Lord of the Rings, Translated From the Red Book.

I was unable to read the bottom writing due to the very small size of my book and the very bold font that they used. However, one can assume that it does indeed say something of interest.
geordie 12/Sep/2006 at 02:28 PM
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The editions I have of TH don’t have runes on the title page; but there is a line of runes running around the edge of the dustwrapper, as part of the decoration. This is what Tolkien devised for the 1st ed; and is still being used today [as far as I know].

The message is in English; the alphabet is runic. It reads:

The Hobbit or There and back again, being the record of a years journey made by Bilbo Baggins of Hobbiton compiled from his memoirs by JRR Tolkien and published by George Allen and Unwin’

The Lord of the Rings has a message on the title page; runes [or Cirth] at the top; tengwar at the bottom. It’s also in English, and reads:

[In cirth] The Lord of the Rings translated from the Red Book [in tengwar] of Westmarch by John Ronald Reuel Tolkien herein is set forth the history of the War of the Ringand the Return of the King as seen by the Hobbits’.

The Silmarillion; Unfinished Tales and every one of the twelve vols. of HoMe have also each their own inscription, but I’m not going to copy out all of those! The info can be found in Wayne Hammond’s JRR Tolkien: A Descriptive Bibliography [1993]. Or a language expert could translate them for you.
Milye 13/Sep/2006 at 05:40 AM
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Thanks! I knew they were gonna be interesting!
nEUroTIc 14/Sep/2006 at 06:45 AM
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oh my god...they actually make sense..never knew about that slick piece of information..thanx geordie and koranti
Sil 20/Sep/2006 at 04:15 AM
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I’ve only got ONE HoME with me at the moment, but I’ll translate that for you anyway *g*
It’s the Lost Road, so Volume V.

"Herein are collected the oldest tale of the downfall of Numenor: the story of the lost road into the West: the annals of Valinor and the [something, -als - maybe annals, my book’s cut off the bit before that-] of Beleriand in a later form: the Ainulindale or music of the Ainur: the Lhammas or account of tongues: the Quenta Silmarillion or history of the silmarils: and the history of many words and names."

There you go!
Also a hint: When you’re watching the dvds, on the title page a book comes up and it also has lettering around it - and you can read that too, although in FOTR it just says something like "eleventy one years is too short a time" etc, etc, and I can’t remember the others right now. But check it out.
Arvellas 24/Sep/2006 at 08:00 PM
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The copy of The Hobbit that I own, which is the Houghton Mifflin Collector’s Edition, has some Hobbit-runes on the spine of the book, which are explained inside the book, and they just spell out "The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien."  I know that because of the explanation inside.  I can’t remember if my copy has more runes on the title page; I’ll go check.  May I ask what editions of the books you own?
Sil 25/Sep/2006 at 05:08 PM
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Mine had the runes on the title page which I also translated as Geordie has...
Arvellas 10/Oct/2006 at 06:39 PM
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Milye-I think I know what you are talking about more fully now; my copy of LOTR has two rows of runes on the title page, one across the top and one across the bottom.  The one on the top is written in the Cirth, and the one along the bottom is inthe Tengwar.  They are explained in the Appendices.
geordie 11/Oct/2006 at 11:03 AM
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Arvellas - if you’d read my post, you’d know what the tengwar and cirth on the title pages means.
paulzorg 09/Nov/2006 at 07:44 AM
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I am a expert at translating Dwarvish runes into english and English into Dwarf runes, so just ask me, or e-Mail me (paulzorg@yahoo.com) and maybe i can help.
Sil 10/Nov/2006 at 02:25 AM
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They’re not Dwarf Runes though on Lord Of The Rings itself- they’re Elf Runes, and that’s different. (Alas.)  Dwarf Runes as seen in the Hobbit are just correspondant to Old English Runes, which you can just pick up anyway if you do English  Actual Dwarf Runes were meant to be different, I think, but just as Tolkien puts English for Westron, so he substitutes O.E Runes for Dwarf Runes, since lots of people know O.E. Runes
paulzorg 10/Nov/2006 at 05:43 AM
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I know the roots to the runic alphabets, i am just saying, on the hobbit he used Dwarf runes (Moonrunes), and in LOTR he used Cirith(or the Angerthas).
so if anyone needs some help with any of those just e-Mail me, thats all.