Press release - The Children of Hurin

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geordie 18/Sep/2006 at 11:07 AM
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I’ve just received this from a friend - good news! It’s so ’fresh’, I had’nt heard of it before!


[I’d been wondering what Christopher Tolkien had been up to lately!]

With thanks to Douglas A. Anderson, and to Jessica Yates, who passed it to me.



Press Release

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006
J.R.R. TOLKIEN’S THE CHILDREN OF HÚRIN TO BE PUBLISHED IN 2007

Houghton Mifflin has acquired US rights to publish the first complete
book by J.R.R. Tolkien since the posthumous Silmarillion in 1977 .
HarperCollins UK acquired the project from The Tolkien Estate in a
world rights deal. Presented for the first time as a fully
continuous and standalone story, the epic tale of The Children of
Húrin will reunite fans of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings
with Elves and Men, dragons and Dwarves, and the rich landscape and
characters unique to Tolkien.

The Children of Húrin , begun in 1918, was one of three "Great Tales"
J.R.R. Tolkien worked on throughout his life, though he never
realized his ambition to see it published. Though familiar to many
fans from extracts and references within other Tolkien books, it has
long been assumed that the story would forever remain an "unfinished
tale". Now reconstructed by Christopher Tolkien, painstakingly
editing together the complete work from his father’s many drafts,
this book is the culmination of a tireless thirty-year endeavor by
him to bring J.R.R. Tolkien’s vast body of unpublished work to a wide
audience.

Christopher Tolkien said: "It has seemed to me for a long time that
there was a good case for presenting my father?s long version of the
legend of the Children of Húrin as an independent work, between its
own covers, with a minimum of editorial presence, and above all in
continuous narrative without gaps or interruptions, if this could be
done without distortion or invention, despite the unfinished state in
which he left some parts of it."

Having drawn the distinctive maps for the original The Lord of the
Rings more than 50 years ago, Christopher has also created a detailed
new map for this book. In addition, it will include a jacket and
color paintings by Alan Lee , illustrator of The Hobbit and The Lord
of the Rings Centenary Edition and Oscar ® -winning designer of the
film trilogy.

The Lord of the Rings was already acclaimed worldwide as the most
popular book of the 20th Century before the blockbuster films in
2001-3 broke new ground and inspired millions more to read J.R.R.
Tolkien’s books -- an additional 50 million copies were sold, leaving
new fans wanting more. The Children of Húrin will be published by
HarperCollins UK in April 2007, and on the same day in the United
States by Houghton Mifflin.

Victoria Barnsley , CEO and Publisher of HarperCollins Publishers UK
said: "This epic story of adventure, tragedy, fellowship and heroism
stands as one of the finest expressions of J.R.R. Tolkien?s skills as
a storyteller. With a narrative as dramatic and powerful as anything
contained within The Lord of the Rings , it can now be read and
enjoyed as Tolkien originally intended, and will doubtless be a
revelation for millions of fans around the world."
Janet Silver , Vice President and Publisher of Houghton Mifflin,
said, "As J.R.R. Tolkien’s original American publisher, dating back
to The Hobbit , we are extremely proud to be bringing this project
to Tolkien’s devoted readership in the United States. Christopher
Tolkien has done a great service in realizing his father’s vision for
The Children of Hurin."

Estel Galnuath 18/Sep/2006 at 11:26 AM
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awesome
Captain Bingo 18/Sep/2006 at 11:58 AM
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"Now reconstructed by Christopher Tolkien, painstakingly
editing together the complete work from his father’s many drafts,
this book is the culmination of a tireless thirty-year endeavor by
him to bring J.R.R. Tolkien’s vast body of unpublished work to a wide
audience."

Culmination?? So this will be CT’s final effort. A sad day, but by the sound of it a worthy swan song.

We already owe a debt to CT & it keeps getting bigger.
Asha Greyjoy 18/Sep/2006 at 12:02 PM
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Oooh....
Reikon Suchi-ru 18/Sep/2006 at 12:15 PM
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*writes it down on his calendar* I’ll be waiting outside my bookstore for this one, and that’s definitely odd for me, as I usually just wait a few months for the hype behind a particular book to die down before I pick it up, but not this time!
Lord of the Rings 18/Sep/2006 at 01:05 PM
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*salivates*
halfir 18/Sep/2006 at 02:03 PM
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Captain Bingo: So this will be CT’s final effort

Well he is after all 82!X(

geordie: Wonderful news.

Crystophalax 18/Sep/2006 at 02:15 PM
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This is very exciting! Does anyone have any information (or speculation) regarding the length of this book and the style of writing within? Should we expect something more akin to the Silmarillion or LOTR?
geordie 18/Sep/2006 at 02:17 PM
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halfir - yes, it is wonderful. But I was a bit annoyed when I first got the email [quite unjustly]. ’How come I have’nt heard of this before?’ I wondered, yes I wondered. Either I’ve been blind and deaf for these last few years; or others have known about it and said nowt, I thought. But then I got a call from Christina. Turns out she and Wayne only got their email today, half an hour before I did! So there we go! Hot off the Press, indeed!


oh, before I forget - I passed on the kind wishes of the group to Christina and Wayne, concerning Christina’s health. Christina says to thank you all.
halfir 18/Sep/2006 at 02:23 PM
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X(
Larcwen 18/Sep/2006 at 02:25 PM
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Wow, this is so cool.  Who would’ve thought there’d be a *new* Tolkien book coming out after all this time.  I’m curious too about what type of narrative this is going to be.  Very exciting indeed.
Captain Bingo 18/Sep/2006 at 02:34 PM
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What can we expect? Just the Narn as we have it in UT with the 5 or 6 pages from The Sil, or will it include The Wanderings of Hurin as well? Can we expect a Prologue setting the scene for those who haven’t read those books?

Personally, my only regret is the Alan Lee illustrations. I love his work but his M-e images are too closely associated with the movies - I can’t read the illustrated LotR anymore as I have the movie playing in my head when I do. From the sound of it there will be colour plates inside as well as the cover by Lee.

Unfortunately the only ’Turin’ illustration Tolkien did (adds ’as far as I know’ so as not to arouse the rightious ire of Geordie - I’ve seen him angry ) is the ’Glaurung’ one which has been used on UT so they couldn’t use that as a cover illustration.

BTW anyone seen the new anniversary edition of UT by Harper Collins, with the matte dust jacket matching the 50th anniversary hb’s of LotR (& the new Sil edition)? They make an absolutely beautiful set.
Dis 18/Sep/2006 at 02:37 PM
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Yay!

...it will include a jacket and color paintings by Alan Lee... Does this mean there will be illustrations inside the book as well? I hope so!

I will be putting an order in at my local bookstore before it actually comes out to ensure I get a copy.

We owe CT a lot. I can’t imagine what it would have been like without him. We’d sure have a lot more unanswered questions.

Anna Calenear 18/Sep/2006 at 02:43 PM
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I want.  I’ve read the UT and was greatly intrigued by it. I must say I am even more so by this.
Thank you Christopher Tolkien. I’m sure your father would be proud of all the work you’ve put into this.
halfir 18/Sep/2006 at 02:53 PM
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AC : As Rayner Unwin observed- and both  geordie  and I have quoted before:

’...no other author has ever had the advantage of a literary executor with the sympathy, the scholarship, and the humility to devote half a lifetime to the task of unobtrusively giving shape to his own father’s creativity. In effect one man’s imaginative genius has had the benefit of two lifetime’s work. {Rayner Unwin- Early Days of Elder Days- Tolkien’s Legendarium edt. Flieger & Hostetter - my emphasis}

Jinniver Thynne 18/Sep/2006 at 03:01 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by Captain Bingo on Monday, September 18, 2006
Personally, my only regret is the Alan Lee illustrations. I love his work but his M-e images are too closely associated with the movies - I can’t read the illustrated LotR anymore as I have the movie playing in my head when I do. From the sound of it there will be colour plates inside as well as the cover by Lee.


Grumble grumble.  Just put a piece of paper over the pictures so you won’t see ’em.

I like Alan Lee, not least because he was willing to talk to me about Barrows* when I met him and pestered him about his sketches.

*The Barrows in his ’Sketchbook’ are based on some he saw in the Orkneys, by the way.

Anyway, I see more fighting in our house over this, so there will be two copies bought!

Rohanna 18/Sep/2006 at 03:01 PM
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wow, this is fabulous news.  I do hope it is written in a way easier to read than the Silm, but I won’t complain if it isn’t - at least I’ll have purdy color pictures to look at if it is hard to follow (then I’ll just come here and have you guys explain it all to me).

and what a nice quote about CT halfir

Shasta Stark 18/Sep/2006 at 03:11 PM
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*salivates*

This is indeed good news.   I can’t hardly wait.  The story of the Children of Hurin is by far one of my favorite stories that Tolkien wrote, and I’m glad to see that it’s finally getting published in final form.  I do hope this isn’t the last of Tolkien’s works to be finalized and published, but all good things must come to an end.  It is truly sad, but I’m so looking forward to this day!

Anna Calenear 18/Sep/2006 at 03:16 PM
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halfir~ I’ve not seen that quote before. It’s very true. I wonder if Tolkien’s works would be as popular without the hard work CT put into them? We certainly wouldn’t have as wide a knowledge of ME without him.
(Just Anna is fine. I never thought of myself as an air conditioner.)

_____ 18/Sep/2006 at 04:47 PM
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Awesome news!
Moros 18/Sep/2006 at 04:57 PM
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A question. It says that this book will be published in the UK and the United States. I’m not savy at all in the ways of book production and distribution, so if it is published in the United States, is it safe to assume that it will be available in Canadian bookstores, or not? I just need to know if I have to make a cross-border trip next April.
Compa_Mighty 18/Sep/2006 at 05:02 PM
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In Canada you probably won’t have any problems. However I’ll have to wait at least a year before I get the Spanish version. (You know, continuity purposes ) I just hope the guy who translated LOTR, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion is still alive... again, for style and continuity purposes.

Tuna 18/Sep/2006 at 05:05 PM
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Great news geordie. Thanks for giving me something to look forward to.
halfir 18/Sep/2006 at 05:57 PM
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(Just Anna is fine. I never thought of myself as an air conditionerX(

Sorry!

Tar-Adahnamir 18/Sep/2006 at 08:06 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by halfir on Monday, September 18, 2006

AC : As Rayner Unwin observed- and both  geordie  and I have quoted before:

’...no other author has ever had the advantage of a literary executor with the sympathy, the scholarship, and the humility to devote half a lifetime to the task of unobtrusively giving shape to his own father’s creativity. In effect one man’s imaginative genius has had the benefit of two lifetime’s work. {Rayner Unwin- Early Days of Elder Days- Tolkien’s Legendarium edt. Flieger & Hostetter - my emphasis}


About your emphasis, Frank Herbert has had his son and Kevin J. Anderson "extend" his universe. Hasn’t worked out so well for him so far.... even though they’re officially canon, no-one really accepts them as such. they sell well though, because they are probably good early teen books, and many Dune lovers can’t help but buy the book and read in fustration, anger or hope, or even just to nitpick it.

But I very much trust CT on this one.  He could have easily cashed in on the tolkien franchise, but his works have been amazing, nothing contrary to tolkiens vision except perhaps the orcs=elves thing......

geordie 18/Sep/2006 at 11:10 PM
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But I very much trust CT on this one. He could have easily cashed in on the tolkien franchise, but his works have been amazing, nothing contrary to tolkiens vision except perhaps the orcs=elves thing..

erm - can I raise an enquiring finger? [this might not be the place for it] - how do we know what Tolkien’s vision is? After 1973, only through the work of Christopher.

Basically, JRR wrote the books and CT edited them, very unobtrusively, and, in my view, very much to the spirit of his father’s will, which left CT his unpublished manuscripts and typescripts

’Upon Trust... with full power to publish alter rewrite or complete any work of mine unpublished at my death or to destroy any part or parts of any such published works which he in his absolute discretion may think fit and subject thereto
[emphasis mine, as they say at times like these]

If there is some confusion over fine points such as orcs/elves - well, that’s what Tolkien himself wrote at a certain time; and it’s what CT edited at a certain time. And if there are any inconsistencies, then they derive from JRR - not CT - and CT gives us all the relevant material, so’s we can make up our own minds about what JRRT’s vision was.

In my view CT has fulfilled his father’s trust well over the past 30 years, and I add my voice to the richly-deserved praise.
Padmé Amidala 18/Sep/2006 at 11:41 PM
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Wooooooo! *jumps up and down*
Princess Gia 18/Sep/2006 at 11:59 PM
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Ooh, this sounds interested. I always enjoyed that story. I can’t wait to actually get to read it. I guess I have to make room to buy it, and money to get it. I’m sure it will be worth it, and has so  many have said before me, we owe a lot to CT. Imagine what we would not have known or read if he hadn’t done it, taken his time and effort to do it? I will greatly look forward to this, and as they say, last but most certainly not least.

Laielinwen 19/Sep/2006 at 12:02 AM
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I Just saw this as well on Yahoo News...
Here is the link to that article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060918/ap_on_en_ot/books_new_tolkien_1

It should be interesting. I will reserve judgement on it until I’ve read it.

Itania 19/Sep/2006 at 01:44 AM
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I read about it on CNN before reading about it here.
Link: http://edition.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/books/09/18/books.newtolkien.ap/
It’s probably on several major newssites by now, but I’ve seen nothing in Swedish news yet.

This blog might also be of interest: http://wormtalk.blogspot.com/
Lori 19/Sep/2006 at 01:55 AM
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Awesome news, I can’t wait to read the book.
Though knowing how long it takes for a book to arrive to Russia (and mind ye, none of HOMEs is translated into Russian yet though I don’t mind that) I guess I will lay my hands on this Story only in several years from now.
Captain Bingo 19/Sep/2006 at 02:52 AM
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Just found this on the BBC website

I especially like the line:

The story involves the elves and dwarves that feature in much of Tolkien’s work.
Phil_d_one 19/Sep/2006 at 03:01 AM
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(The Children of Hurin, Prologue, Emphasis is Mine)

I’m going to have to get used to using that citation in my posts, it seems. Amazing news 
Nírithil 19/Sep/2006 at 03:30 AM
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Eep! This s great! When is it coming out? 2007? I can’t wait that long!
halfir 19/Sep/2006 at 04:25 AM
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My latest post in the Tolkien and Norse Myth thread in AL is on the inspirational  sources for the  The Children of Hurin:

Norse Imagery in Tolkien’s ME

 

"Tolkien certainly did -in Narn I In Hurin (UT)-  owe a literary debt to the Volsunga Saga- the story of Sigurd."

 

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=46&TopicID=206422&PagePosition=1&pagepostposition=2

 

 

Dan Leach 19/Sep/2006 at 04:51 AM
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Fantastic news. I really thought everything had already been published

I cant wait for this one :)

Lailyn 19/Sep/2006 at 12:07 PM
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Ooh yay!  Thank you so much for posting, the Narn i Hin Húrin is my very favorite story!!
Rochir Mumakdacil 19/Sep/2006 at 01:45 PM
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Great news. Such an enterprise never occurred to me. I wouldn’t be misled by the word ’culmination’ into thinking that this is a signal that this will by CJRT’s final work. It reads just like publisher’s ’blurb’ to me, phrased to make what they want to sell sound even tastier.

However, it’s hard to see what more CJRT could do. It would be wonderful to have the Fall of Gondolin told in the same way as Tuor & his Coming to Gondolin (UT), but the necessary JRRT texts do not exist. All there is is the 1910s/1920s primitive/archaic stuff in BoLT, and to adapt this would require much more invention, interpolation and extrapolation than CJRT has hitherto (perhaps wisely) been willing to undertake.

Geirve 19/Sep/2006 at 01:48 PM
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Fantastic! It was my only bone of contention with C. Tolkien that he scattered the fragments of the Narn between Sil, UT and HoME-11, and I have long dreamed of having it in one piece. Now, I have my wish come true and more...
Mirima 19/Sep/2006 at 03:07 PM
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I’m so excited! The Children of Hurin was one of my favorite stories in the Silmarillion.  I suppose it was also one of the saddest, but it was still so beautifully written.  Hooray!

 

Bearamir 19/Sep/2006 at 05:26 PM
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I didn’t see this thread earlier...so my apologies for the duplication of the thread topics.  Since only one other person posted in the other thread (Thank you, "I’m not Tarin Yet" for the head’s up), I’ll just express my delight here instead! 
Blackrose Bugg 19/Sep/2006 at 05:57 PM
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Fantastic!  The world has been waiting for this- well the Tolkien obsessed population, at any rate.  Pre-order, anyone? 
Eledhdil 19/Sep/2006 at 06:05 PM
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Published in April, published in April... I can’t remember, is that before or after my diss is due in? I really hope it’s before - this book should help a fair bit, and makes one more on the bibliography!
And also - much whee-ness!
Curubethion 19/Sep/2006 at 08:42 PM
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Sweet! This is going to be awesome...
Lady d`Ecthelion 19/Sep/2006 at 09:07 PM
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I heard it on the news last night and thought the same : "How come no one knew nothing about it"?!!!!

So, it’s "The Children of Hurin". The speaker who broke the news, said the name sounding like [ orin ] and I could not recognize the popular name. I was so impatient to come to the Plaza and share about the "hot" news ... but this Northumbrian... Ah! this Northumbrian


I am very much excited, too. I hope Chr.T. has done well, The story of Hurin’s children is one of the most touching in the Legendarium.
halfir 20/Sep/2006 at 01:05 AM
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but this Northumbrian... Ah! this Northumbrian


Send him back behind that wall! He’s far too blunt for the sensitivities of the soft South  East of England.X(

 

Lady d`Ecthelion 20/Sep/2006 at 01:55 AM
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It would have been a crime if I, in my daily colaboration with the e-edition of one of the most popular newspapers here, had missed the opportunity to publish something about this exciting news!
I could’ve not lived with such a "guilt"!
Besides, I saw a perfect opportunity for advertising The Plaza, too

So, here it is:

http://www.pozvanete.com/malki/lubopitni/novini.pl?the_news=1158740716&next_t=1&last_t=10

Well, I know, you won’t understand anything, but just wanted to show to you all, what I have done!

geordie, dear, I translated only parts of that FAX ...
Sorrrryyy!!! Was so excited that I could not wait for your permission. But I hope it’s OK. After all, it’s become world news now, nothing "secret". Right?

And ... don’t even try to scold me for that, or ... I might follow halfir’s suggestion!

Endril 20/Sep/2006 at 04:30 AM
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This is indeed  awsome news. I don’t know much about the new story but still I would like tio know: Is the action located in Middle Earth too or is not a story that happens in Middle Earth? I hope I will have the book too even if it would be a long time untill it gets here. And here is what will detronate Harry Potter and J.K. Rolling. .

Please answer my question. I’m very curious.
Lori 20/Sep/2006 at 07:35 AM
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Aldo, it’s fantastic! And what is more important - I can understand almost everything you wrote
Legolas - the action does take place in the ME, actually it is a more detailed story ot Turin Turambar and Nienor (don’t tell me you have never heard about them). *g*
Dragons Malice 20/Sep/2006 at 08:05 AM
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Fantastic news! Just lucky my birthday is in April, though I don’t know if I can stand the long wait....is it April yet?
Endril 20/Sep/2006 at 12:09 PM
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Lori: I didn’t read yet the unfinished tales. And that’s indeed good news, the book will came on april. I think it’s a long time untill than and also untill it will get to Europe. I hope I’ll find it too. Also congratulations on the new rank ( this has nothing to do with the book).
Wooley 20/Sep/2006 at 04:52 PM
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  Re: The Children of Hurin

                This is indeed excellent news. I am sure Christopher Tolkien will do a great job on the book as he is a fine writer in his own way, in more ways than one. And so even though J.R.R. is himself now long gone, his works will continue to go on through his talented son. I can’t wait to read it.

Lady d`Ecthelion 20/Sep/2006 at 10:25 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by Loriwaynen on Wednesday, September 20, 2006
Aldo, it’s fantastic! And what is more important - I can understand almost everything you wrote

Hehe, Lory, but konechno, you could, dorogaya! (pity the Plaza does not show Cyrillic)

I don’t know what to expect from the new book, but... they say that "pieces" of it have been so far published in other Tolkien’s books here and there. If they mean the UT mainly, then
I am happy,
I am so happy ...

for I have always wished for some of those tales to have been actually finished, and in the narrative as we see them written in, in the UT - book, rather than as they are presented in the "Silmarillion".
If Chr.T. has provided this to us, then I shall be forever greatful!

I was thinking ... Becoming now a separate work, it may well happen in time, that this particular tale becomes a separate and independent literary piece, like ’Beowulf’ and "Kalevala’... That’s fantastic, isn’t it!
An Capall Dubh 20/Sep/2006 at 11:00 PM
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This is great news and there’s no doubt that the book will the source for some interesting discussions.It comes all on top of the many subjects that are still part of our daily life on the Plaza ,to be honest  it will be hard to wait ’till April .
Thorin Ruthanin 20/Sep/2006 at 11:48 PM
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wats the book exactly gonna be about ?
Lori 21/Sep/2006 at 12:27 AM
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Thorin - the book would obviously be about the fate of the Shildren of Hurin, namely Turin and Nienor. That would be a more detailed story than the one in the Sil or in the UT.
Aldo - that a pity indeed, dorogaya. I’m not sure the new story can become a piece like Kalevala since the latter is a national epos while the Children of Hurin is just a fictional story, albeit a magnificent one.
Leanan Sídhe 21/Sep/2006 at 12:25 PM
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*dances a jig* One of my favourite stories! Just... YAAAAY! Can’t really express my elation. I read it in the ’Metro’ newspaper a two days back (somewhere stuffed away in an ickle corner, how dare you, Metro-editors) and well, the person sitting next to me on the train was staring at me for my odd *bouncebounce*-behaviour.

I can’t wait for it to be published!
ledfrodo 21/Sep/2006 at 02:31 PM
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I started a seperate thread on this book not knowing this was here.  I’m glad to see that Christophwe Tolkien was able to make his father’s dream come true! It is certainly a great thing for his fans!  I can’t wait to have someone read it to me!
Cealega 21/Sep/2006 at 04:23 PM
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i’m sooooo excited. i have yet to read all of Tolkien’s books, but i still want this one the second it hits stores. YAY!
Tar-Adahnamir 22/Sep/2006 at 01:17 AM
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I know it’s early to speculate, but what do we think about reading order now? I think (depending on how the book works out of course) maybe in the future people should read the Children of Húrin before the Silmarillion, since I think the tale doesn’t really need too much background, and may very well be more entertaining than the Silmarillion.

Thoughts?

Celandine 22/Sep/2006 at 03:24 AM
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This is indeed exciting news! I saw the CNN press release a few days back and was extremely gratified to know the wait won’t be too long. It was always one of my favorite stories in the Sil and UT so I eagerly wait in line with every other crazed Tolkien fan for what should be a momentous day. I am curious about the new map and work by Alan Lee as well which is said to be included within it’s pages. Love his work and can’t wait to see something new by him as well!
Cyclona 22/Sep/2006 at 06:56 AM
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Does it take place in Middle Earth?
Captain Bingo 22/Sep/2006 at 12:14 PM
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Cyclona: ’Does it take place in Middle Earth?’

Yes, or rather, sort of. It takes place in Beleriand, some thousands of years before the events of LotR. Beleriand was the western part of Middle-earth which was inundated by the Sea in the Battle against Morgoth at the end of the First Age. Its all in The Silmarillion.

Well, that’s the short answer.
Captain Bingo 24/Sep/2006 at 02:01 PM
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More info. Uk publication is April 16th, its 320 pages long, & is available for pre-order from Amazon UK.

here
Celeblin 24/Sep/2006 at 02:49 PM
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That is indeed something to look forward to.

The Narn was the work of Tolkien that I enjoyed most, so it will with no doubt be interesting.

Captain Bingo -- Thanks for the link.

Captain Bingo 27/Sep/2006 at 10:25 AM
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Just wondering. 320 pages. Now, if we take the combined length of the material in UT, the 5 or 6 pages of material which was included in the ’77 Sil, & so missed out of the Narn in UT, other bits & bobs scattered through HoM-e, I still don’t get 320 pages (probably closer to 150). This either means we can expect to find some new material, The Wanderings of Hurin as an Appendix, a pretty long intro/collection of editorial notes by CT, or a lot of illustrations by Alan Lee.

Anyone else get 320 pages?
Lord of the Rings 27/Sep/2006 at 01:29 PM
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I was actually wondering about that too, Captain Bingo. My UT is currently in another state, but I was planning on looking at the page count when I got a chance. My hope is that there is further material regarding the unfinished middle of the Tale (more than just the brief account in the Sil).

How long (in pages) is the Wanderings of Hurin? If we total that in with the existing UT and Sil accounts (and try to estimate relative page sizes), we should be able to tell how much material (if any) is left. Of course, it will be impossible to tell if this material is A) commentary, B) new material, or C) appendix material.

Interesting question though.
Captain Bingo 27/Sep/2006 at 01:52 PM
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WoH is 46 pages (plus 12 pages of notes & commentary by CT. Still not getting near 320 pages though. It does tail off at the end, so is incomplete. It would have to be an Appendix though, as you’d lose the emotional impact of the death of Turin & Nienor if you just ran on to it.

The thing is, CoH is supposed to be presented as a ’novel’ like the ’77 Sil, rather than an ’accademic’ work along the lines of UT. Too many footnotes & Appendices from CT will turn off the general reader. I think there is to be a ’Notes & Queries’ bit for ’fans’, but there is a danger that it could become percieved as too ’complex’ & ’convoluted’ if too much of that stuff is included.

I really wonder what exactly we’re going to get in 6 months...
Lord of the Rings 27/Sep/2006 at 03:05 PM
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I also wonder. I think a fairly substantial Appendix wouldn’t really affect most people one way or the other, but if it’s half the book, that’s another story. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Captain Bingo 27/Sep/2006 at 03:21 PM
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The way its being sold, with Alan Lee illustrations, I think they’re going for the general market.

Of course, LotR has a hundred pages of Appendices, but they’re part of the narrative. Too many footnotes will put off the general reader.

I’m interested as to how they’ll set the story up. Obviously an Introduction with a synopsis - you have to explain the whole Gondolin thing for instance.

Is it actually enough of a ’stand alone’ story? Of course those of us who have read the Sil are familiar enough with the background to be able to read it as a tale in its own right, but to be successful it will have to immediately accessible to the general reader - even those who have not read LotR (which let’s face it is a BIG book). The more I think about it, the more I wonder about who will ’get’ it?

I’ve seen a number of articles talking about an ’X’ rated Tolkien novel, full of ’violence, incest & suicide’. I expect to be queuing up in Waterstones behind a lot of seedy old men in dirty raincoats

And that’s just Geordie & Halfir
Ankala Teaweed 27/Sep/2006 at 03:51 PM
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Ah, geordie, this is the best news in 10 years or more!!!    And yes, it fully explains why we have heard so little from CT lately; he must have been up to his eyeballs in proofs for some time now.

Say, Captain B, it must be that you only saw Alan Lee’s work first by way of his gig as an art consultant for the movies?
For he has been an approved Tolkien illustrator for a very long time--long before the films were made.

I happen to like Lee’s work. He is my favorite Tolkien illustrator (after the Professor himself, of course). I think that hiring him was one of the best things Peter Jackson did. Moria was tremendously well-done as a result, imho.

 

Captain Bingo 27/Sep/2006 at 03:56 PM
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AK Nope - I had the Illustrated Hobbit & LotR before I saw the movies. Actually I love his work (the edition of The Mabinoogion he illustrated is beautiful). But I’m not a fan of the movies, so i don’t really want to be reminded of them when I read the book.
Ankala Teaweed 27/Sep/2006 at 04:06 PM
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Ah, CB, that’s a little bit subjective. You are reminding me now of the young girls (Legolas lovers, you know the types  ) I have met online who get all silly about Hugo Weaving’s performance as Elrond because he was in the Matrix films too. As though the actor should never take another role and just go live on air!

When I met Mr. Lee, I congratulated him on getting hired on the film production. Well did his eyes ever get large and he began to exclaim on his good luck very excitedly. That’s pretty good money for a book illustrator, let me tell you. It must have been such a lift to his career, and good for him I say.

Mithrandír 28/Sep/2006 at 10:09 AM
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i cannnnnnnn’t wait!!
Lord of the Rings 28/Sep/2006 at 06:20 PM
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But I’m not a fan of the movies, so i don’t really want to be reminded of them when I read the book.

I feel exactly the same way. I haven’t touched my illustrated edition since the movies came out for this reason. While it is, as AK says, subjective, I also feel a real need to construct (or rather, re-construct from earlier readings) my own images rather than having the movie images coming into my head. Even if the movies had been well done, I would most likely feel the same way.

It has nothing to do with Lee’s abilities whatsoever, and I hardly condemn him for having helped on the movies (rather, I applaud those who made those parts of the movies which are worth watching so, and Lee is surely one of them).
Aragonia Dunami 28/Sep/2006 at 08:04 PM
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This should be an interesting read for all Tolkein fans. I plan on picking up a copy and i’ll just bet that it becomes a best seller, as many Tolkein fans are probably hungry for more of his work, even though CT has had a part in completeing and editing it. 
geordie 29/Sep/2006 at 09:31 AM
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i’ll just bet that it becomes a best seller, as many Tolkein fans are probably hungry for more of his work, even though CT has had a part in completeing and editing it

How do you mean; ’even though CT has had a part in completing and editing it’? Christopher has published more of his father’s work [and in his father’s name] than JRR Tolkien himself. It’s not a case of ’even though’ Christopher has had a hand in it. It’s _because_ of Christopher’s work on his father’s behalf, and at his father’s request, that we have anything by Tolkien later than 1967.

That includes things like ’Exodus’ and Finn and Hengest, for, although CT did not edit these himself [which he’d be perfectly capable of doing] he gave the work to others, as he was busy with others of his father’s writings. Same goes for Drout’s edition of Tolkien’s Beowulf lecture notes; and Flieger’s edition of SWM. Christopher has done a superhuman job of bringing his father’s unpublished works to us over the last 33 years. This book will be the latest in a long line of eminently scholarly books and other publications [I’m thinking of Vinyar Tengwar here] which could only have seen the light of day because of Christopher’s love for the work, and his sense of duty to his father. To say even though CT has had a part in completeing and editing it. seems ungrateful to me. It might not have been meant that way, but that’s the way I see it.

btw - the man’s name is Tolkien not Tolkein.



Captain Bingo 29/Sep/2006 at 11:05 AM
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Aragonia - were you the sign writer for Oxonmoot?

(Don’t worry Geordie & Jinniver should get that one)
geordie 01/Oct/2006 at 12:51 PM
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There’s an article in Time magazine, with quotes from Shippey, Drout and Hostetter.   Here’s a link.

Elhir Bregalad 01/Oct/2006 at 02:36 PM
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Can this be pre-ordered now?  If so where?
Captain Bingo 01/Oct/2006 at 02:49 PM
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Amazon UK for definite. Don’t know about anywhere else
Elhir Bregalad 01/Oct/2006 at 08:01 PM
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Does anybody think that this could eventually lead to The Children of Hurin being adapted into a movie?
geordie 01/Oct/2006 at 11:31 PM
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Fie on you!     Why on earth would anyone want that??
Elhir Bregalad 02/Oct/2006 at 06:35 AM
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Well it would I for one would want that.  It is one of Tolkien’s best stories, in my opinion, and could stand well on it’s own which is being proven by getting it’s own book.  I understand that movies cannot compare to books they never can;  The book is always better than the movie but I still think it would be a great thing to done.  The LOTR movie hype might be dying down a little but now the Hobbit is going to be made and this new book will cause a buzz, it really already has, and I wouldn’t be surprised if someone decided to make it into a movie.
geordie 02/Oct/2006 at 10:38 AM
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LotR the movie was awful. On the whole. [I liked the music]. I dread to think what PJ would do to TH. [filling in the gaps indeed]. But there’s no need for any hopes or fears for the Children of Hurin being made into a movie [nor any other of Tolkien’s stories unpublished at his death] because the film rights for Silm etc reside with the Tolkien Estate. And I don’t think they’ll be selling them.
Laielinwen 02/Oct/2006 at 11:19 AM
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Do we know if the Tolkiens have ever made comment on what they thought of the movies? I can’t really see them ever wanting to sell the rights for any reason. I would be much surprised if they did. I can’t see Christopher having that in his long term plans as he worked for thirty years on finishing this work. I can’t see him really considering it now that we have moved into the LOTR Movie age either.
Captain Bingo 02/Oct/2006 at 11:26 AM
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If we read between the lines then no movie.

What lines you ask? On the Tolkien Estate website Geordie linked us to we find

The rights in « The Children of Húrin » are owned by the Tolkien family via the Tolkien Estate, and the book rights have been sold in a worldwide deal to the Tolkien publishers HarperCollinsUK. There are no plans for the foreseeable future to license any other rights in the work (whether film or otherwise).

’There are no plans for the foreseeable future to license any other rights in the work (whether film or otherwise)

I think that’s clear enough for everyone.
Laielinwen 02/Oct/2006 at 12:44 PM
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Elhir Bregalad 02/Oct/2006 at 01:03 PM
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Didn’t the rights to LOTR and TH at one time belong to the Tolkien Estate?  They sold those.
geordie 02/Oct/2006 at 01:27 PM
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Nope. The rights to LotR and TH were sold by Tolkien himself, in the 1960s.
Elhir Bregalad 02/Oct/2006 at 02:24 PM
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So wouldn’t it be safe to assume that Christopher or his literary heir could sell the rights to more Tolkien books or stories?
Elhir Bregalad 02/Oct/2006 at 02:26 PM
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Or The Tolkien Estate?  Sorry about the double post.
halfir 02/Oct/2006 at 11:23 PM
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In one of her papers- read at the Tolkien Centennial Conference -Oxford 1992- Gloriana St Clair observes of The Children of Hurin:

’What is particularly worthy of critical attention about  the "Narn’ is its unfinished aspects. In incident after incident ,details are unresolved and left dangling. One of the greatest joys of The Lord of the Rings is its completeness.....I wish he had had  the opportunity to do the same  for this work because the potential for another great masterpiece  lies within it. { Volsunga Saga and Narn: Some Analogies}

Ms. St. Clair then goes on to list the unfinished aspects:

’Here are some of the pieces that he could have pulled  together:

1. The knife given  as a gift to the boy Turin could have played a significant role whne Turin returned to his home.

2. Mim’s curse doesn’t get fully carried out.

3. Turin’s proclivity for falling  into trances is difficult  to understand and justify as a plot device.His trancelike state recalls Brynhild’s slep on the magic mountain, but her trance is a punishment for disobedience to Odin.

4. Turin’s character flaw is not well enough defined . He suffers from  hubris but also from  a kind of unbecoming fecklessness, which is not quite a tragic quality. All of this is eqaully true of Sigurd.

5. Fate and character as the operators  in the story are not so well handled as in The Lord of the Rings, in Oedipus, or in Beowulf.

6. Brandir’s lameness serves  no plot purpose  and duplicates Sador’s lameness. Neither seems  to provide a  significant insight into character.

7. The incest theme seems underused; its plot significance in the Volsunga Saga  is much more compelling.

Clearly some of these points are beyond an editor’s capacity to remedy, but it will be interesting to see how the version that CT has edited and compiled goes some, or part of the way, towards remedying the points identified by Ms. St. Clair.

Region 03/Oct/2006 at 01:30 PM
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Woot, I bet there’s no clue about when it’s going to be out in the rest of Europe? As others have commented before, we owe Christopher alot for helping JRR (especially his contributions to creating the maps jump to mind) and post morte compiling and editing all of his father’s writings.

halfir: I agree although it’s not always easy to draw the line between unfinished aspects and overusing them through elaboration. Especially the incest theme seems to be a sensitive one. Still, it will be interesting to see what has been done with the points St. Clair summed up 

Lord of the Rings 03/Oct/2006 at 07:28 PM
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That’s very interesting, halfir. Actually, some of the things that Ms. St. Clair cites as ’flaws’ are qualities which attract me to Turin’s story. Namely the complexity and ill-definition of his tragic flaw, and the lameness of Brandir (oddly enough, I find that to be an essential feature of the end of the story, even if it doesn’t seem to serve a direct character purpose).
Son of Huor 06/Oct/2006 at 05:15 AM
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I agree with all who applaude CT for his work, and I certainly join in the chorus of those who are overjoyed that the saddest and perhaps most beautiful of Tolkien’s stories is at last going to get it’s own thome. Great!

Now Túrin’s story in many ways reflects something of the story of Kullervo from the Kallevala. Is that where your signature comes from Captain Bingo? perhaps from the episode where young Joukahainen wants to waylay old Väinämöinen, or when the latter meets ’fights’ Antero Vipunen? Väinämöinen often threathens to open his word-hoard.
I do hope you come across this Captain Bingo...
Captain Bingo 06/Oct/2006 at 05:28 AM
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Nope - its actually comes from the site ’Geoffrey Chaucer hath a Blog’  & is available on a t-shirt from there. I nearly chose ’Swynke, Drinke, Swyve. And then make retracioun.’  which is also available.

 

Son of Huor 07/Oct/2006 at 02:45 AM
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haha, well after a while, one starts ’recognising’ ones favourite pieces of literature everywhere I guess. Well, anyway, your signature made me remember the Kallevala, and I already re-read some parts of it, so your sig.did provide me a lot of pleasure!
Galin 07/Oct/2006 at 07:17 AM
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I hope this hasn’t been posted yet!


http://www.fantasymundo.com/articulo.php?articulo=439

geordie 07/Oct/2006 at 09:01 AM
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Galin - excellent stuff! Many thanks for that. The interesting thing for me [apart from the text of he interview] is that it is Adam Tolkien who is doing the talking. Adam is [I believe] the son of Christopher. Now - there has been speculation about who may take over the reins of Tolkien publishing when Christopher retires from the ’job’.    I wonder if young Adam is going to be the one?
Raen_Nem 08/Oct/2006 at 07:28 AM
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Ooh. I think I am going to explode. Wow.   
This is awsome!
Captain Bingo 27/Oct/2006 at 12:06 PM
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Just in case anyone’s missed it - there are to be two editions of The children of Hurin - ’standard’ & deluxe:here.

Eighty quid or twenty five that is the question.

Bit more here
Imfalas 27/Oct/2006 at 12:22 PM
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I really haven’t  had a chance to read all there is pertaining to the release of the new book (will get to it soon) but I am thrilled and can’t wait until the release.
Captain Bingo~ Thank you for providing the above links.
TobiasFalco 13/Nov/2006 at 09:24 AM
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Wow this is just mindblowing. I could never have imagined in my life we would see another book from Tolkien. I understand that it’s posthumous and put together by CT but still, wow! I’ve already gone and reordered my copy
geordie 23/Nov/2006 at 01:22 AM
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*small bump*
Eorl Boarhelm 23/Nov/2006 at 06:31 AM
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2007! Damn.

But still. I read the interview with Adam Tolkien, the one posted on the last page. It looks like this is going to be another  Silmarillion- in the moulding of various versions into one continuous tale with added material. Although I’m sure it’s gonna be a delightful read, we must be careful, while debating the finer points of the Narn, to refer only to the HoME versions, although they may be insconsistent. The new Children will be a constructed story,  and no doubt a beautiful one, but only HoME can decide the truth of things.

Can’t wait.

Captain Bingo 23/Nov/2006 at 06:51 AM
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Eorl Boarhelm Hmmm.....but which version in HoM-e is the ’true’ one?

I’m more than a bit iffy about looking for ’true’ versions of any of Tolkien’s stories. Even HoM-e doesn’t contain every version/piece of writing Tolkien produced on M-e (Osanwe Kenta anyone?). Tolkien wasn’t working toward a ’true’ version of the tale as much as a ’complete’ one. Given that he gave CT full control over his unpublished works in his will I’m prepared to accept both the forthcoming CoH & the ’77 Sil as ’fully authorised’ texts equal to anything Tolkien published in his lifetime - & yes, I’m familiar with CT’s expressions of discomfort with the changes he made to the texts.

In terms of the Matter of M-e CT stands on equal terms with his father as far as I’m concerned - not least because that’s clearly what Tolkien himself wanted. Any changes CT makes are as valid as any Tolkien himself made during his lifetime. In short, my feeling is that we should forget this search for ’true’ versions. If Tolkien had lived another 10 years (& could have been dragged away from his Asimov & whodunnits) I’m certain we’d have had new versions written (& some of them subsequently rejected in favour of older ones).

In short, I’ll wait & see what Coh is like, & if its good, its canon as far as I’m concerned..
Battlehamster 23/Nov/2006 at 01:33 PM
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YES!

It will be very interesting to see the style that it is written in.  I mean, it’ll obviously be able to have way more actual dialogue and stuff (a opposed to Silmarillion, which is like a beautifully written history textbook), since there’ll be more space, but will it be closer to the style of Silmarrillion’s old, sort of formal feeling, or LotR? (I’m assuming it won’t be written like TH.)

About Captain Bingo’s post a while back about the novel with "violence, incest and suicide"- that’s one of those things that you just don’t realize until someone puts it that way...

And Geordie? You’re really sure that we probably don’t have to worry about them making a movie of it?

geordie 23/Nov/2006 at 02:07 PM
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Hmm? Oh yes - the only movie rights ever sold were those for TH, and LotR. Tolkien himself sold those, in the late sixties. I don’t have any more info than anyone else on the Plaza, but the feeling I get is that it’s unlikely that Christopher will sell the rights to UT; Silm; HoMe. Not impossible, but very unlikely, in my [informed] opinion.
Battlehamster 23/Nov/2006 at 04:58 PM
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whew
Mirkwoodworker 27/Nov/2006 at 04:35 PM
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I’m sure that this book will sell well, perhaps better than those in the History of Middle-earth series, given that it will be a complete work (we hope). But since the Children of Hurin legend is so depressing, I don’t know if it will appeal to that many. I mean, The Silmarillion hasn’t sold as well as LOTR or the Hobbit. And The Silmarillion is kind of depressing, too.
Tenharien Calmcacil 30/Nov/2006 at 09:13 PM
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I am MOST DEFINATELY going to be buying this book. It stil saddens me that i dont own the LOTR yet or the hobbit. lol i stay renting them from the library every chance i get to. But there are so many books for me to buy now. This new one, the trilogy, the hobbit, simarillion and the untold tales, or, i forgot the name.
Jaz 01/Dec/2006 at 02:45 PM
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Some people like reading depressing stuff - look at ’The Series of Unfortunate Events’! I don’t think the Silmarillion has sold as well, simply because it isn’t a "story". For me it is more of lots of plots being dealt with in brief, so that the readers get the general idea and can therefore understand LoTR better, not so much for it’s own enjoyment level. I’m sure that there are lots of people who read the Sil for enjoyment - and that’s cool. I read it more for understanding, though, so will definitely get ’The Children of Hurin’, regardless of reviews.
Battlehamster 01/Dec/2006 at 04:13 PM
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Of course, the Series of Unfortunate events is quite diffrerent from a real tragedy.  And I personally hate the Series of Unfortunate events and love Sil, so...  But the impression that I get is that some people gt put off by how dense Sil is.  I mean, my dad tried to read it and got to page 2.  It will be very nice to have part of it fleshed out a little more.
Tenharien Calmcacil 02/Dec/2006 at 10:23 AM
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I have to say I am kinda looking forward to reading a story from tolkien thats not exactly a "happy ending" even if it is or isnt. I think this story will be different and enjoyable. Very different actually. Im not used to the simarilion so this will be a change for me. As long as its in story form, i can hang in there.
TobiasFalco 02/Dec/2006 at 01:08 PM
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So it is a depressing book, whats the big deal? Not every story in life is full of happiness and rainbows. I honestly think that a book that deals with the dark journeys of life that were lived out by those in Middle Earth will make for a most interesting and excellent read.

As for appealing to many; it probably wont; just like The Sim and HoME books. The Children of Hurin is meant to appeal to the die hard fans who find themselves enthralled in the world of Middle Earth. I for one am anxiously awaiting the book; spring 2007 cant come soon enough.
Tenharien Calmcacil 02/Dec/2006 at 01:50 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by TobiasFalco on Saturday, December 02, 2006
<font color="#016918">So it is a depressing book, whats the big deal? Not every story in life is full of happiness and rainbows. I honestly think that a book that deals with the dark journeys of life that were lived out by those in Middle Earth will make for a most interesting and excellent read.

As for appealing to many; it probably wont; just like The Sim and HoME books. The Children of Hurin is meant to appeal to the die hard fans who find themselves enthralled in the world of Middle Earth. I for one am anxiously awaiting the book; spring 2007 cant come soon enough.



You are right, there are so many dark sides in life and as well in these lord of the rings stories. Not everything is lighthearted. thats why i want to read it. I want to hear about the dark stuff and read about the other stories that took place before the war of the rings.
An Capall Dubh 04/Dec/2006 at 06:39 AM
Counsellor of the Mark Points: 14393 Posts: 15093 Joined: 12/Jan/2004
No matter what the mood in the story is ,I will certainly buy the book.The Hobbit,the LotR and the Silmarillion do all contain less pleasant passages,but  there are more happy events as well,it’s all part of the big picture that is called ME.I believe that the book will be great for  long winter-nights but unfortunately we will have to wait a few months,roll on March.
Tenharien Calmcacil 05/Dec/2006 at 09:23 AM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2766 Posts: 1583 Joined: 25/Aug/2008
Oh, so it’s march that the book is coming out? Well thats just after my birthday .I hope to god i can get this book. I am definately not going to be the one not to get it and ask people how it is. I will get it for myself lock myself away and read this book properly. God i cant wait.
Laielinwen 06/Dec/2006 at 01:52 AM
New Soul Points: 31115 Posts: 27324 Joined: 16/Mar/2002
Quote: Originally posted by Tenharien on Saturday, December 02, 2006
I have to say I am kinda looking forward to reading a story from tolkien thats not exactly a "happy ending" even if it is or isnt. I think this story will be different and enjoyable. Very different actually.
Tenharien do you consider the Lord of the Rings a Tolkien book/books with happy endings? I sob all the way through the end of the ROTK every time!
Tenharien Calmcacil 06/Dec/2006 at 06:42 AM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2766 Posts: 1583 Joined: 25/Aug/2008
I kinda do think of it when you look at what might have happned. I mean with the scouring and frodo’s fate, a nd all of that it seems like all was for naught, but hell, it could have been much worse. Sacrifices were made, that how i look at it. And when i watch the ROTK, i end up tearyeyeed as well.
Laielinwen 06/Dec/2006 at 02:30 PM
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Well this is true, but they still all go away in the end and that is just so sad to me! Regardless of what could have happened worse it always makes me cry a lot when they leave on the ship. My heart always especially breaks for Sam when Frodo goes and I just love Bilbo so much I sob when he leaves... Then there is the fact the book is ending in general... haha Sad sad!
An Capall Dubh 07/Dec/2006 at 01:15 PM
Counsellor of the Mark Points: 14393 Posts: 15093 Joined: 12/Jan/2004
Tenharien,I only mentioned March because it’s usually the month when the weather gets better.I don’t remember the exact date when the book will be released , it has been mentioned in one of the threads but it might be a bit of a search since half of them has been moved to the archive.
Tenharien Calmcacil 07/Dec/2006 at 02:31 PM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2766 Posts: 1583 Joined: 25/Aug/2008
Quote: Originally posted by An Capall Dubh on Thursday, December 07, 2006
Tenharien,I only mentioned March because it’s usually the month when the weather gets better.I don’t remember the exact date when the book will be released , it has been mentioned in one of the threads but it might be a bit of a search since half of them has been moved to the archive.
Oh,w ell damn lol. Anywya im sure there will be an actual date sometime soon. There has to be. And when there is, ill be all over that thing!
thetruewest 07/Dec/2006 at 04:42 PM
Expendable of Mordor Points: 81 Posts: 8 Joined: 07/Dec/2006
Oh man, when I heard about this book I went ballistic! I can’t wait till April!!!! I guess I’ll have to learn Dutch to read it sooner... It’s too bad that CT probably won’t be doing Beren and Luthien or the Fall of Gondolin. You know, all of these would make for really good movies. I would die of happiness if they came out with a movie about the lay of lethian. I mean what better and age-old story is there? Though I doubt this book will ever make it to the movies. Like people have said, it’s too sad. Most people today don’t understand one of Tolkien’s biggest premises, that from sadness comes great beauty. He actually comments on it in one of his letters about the Silmarillion I believe. He said the beauty in sadness theme was often too "Celtic" for us Anglo-Saxons, and that we get tired of it easily. But really, I think that CoH beats even Oedipus in the sadness level. Yes Oedipus does kill his Dad and marry his Mom, but that’s just because he had some pyschiatric complex caused by a fixation on a certain stage of mental development. Right Freud? Oh, anyway, he did do those things, but Turin while not killing his father does marry his sister, kill his best friend, kill Baldir, Kill Sador, ruin another friends love, fail to rescue the princess, AND to top it off, is responsible for the destruction of one of the few safe places left in all of Beleriand.
geordie 08/Dec/2006 at 12:45 AM
Hugo Bracegirdle Points: 20570 Posts: 14087 Joined: 06/Mar/2005
Yes, the book will be published in April 2007. As An Capall says; the original post has gone into the Void - or the archives.    Can’t find it.

So, I make a link to the Tolkien Estate website; with more info - Here
Laielinwen 08/Dec/2006 at 01:32 AM
New Soul Points: 31115 Posts: 27324 Joined: 16/Mar/2002
Maybe we could request it be brought back here from the archives...  Not sure if we have to actually find it ourselves to make that request. This is a topic/thread that will get plenty of activity since the book is on its way for a few more months. I’ll ask if y’all would like or perhaps a nice admin. will see and help us anyway.