Sindar in Tol Eressea?

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Durin of Moria 23/Oct/2006 at 01:49 AM
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In The Silmarillion page 305 , It was written " And when they came into the West the Elves of Beleriand dwelt upon Tol Eressea ". In Beleriand, not only the Noldor who came later from the West, there is also the Sindar of the Umanyar that settled in Beleriand earlier than the Noldor. Does that means the Sindar were among the elves of Beleriand that came into the West. And it is also said that only those who had ships,(aparrantly the Teleri of Falas, Noldor don’t do ship building) came into the the west, while those went into the West only when they had the ship.( built in Lindon or other Elvish Havens) Then wouldn’t the Sindar were counted as one of the Calaquendi, or light elves?
Galin 23/Oct/2006 at 09:44 AM
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Re: Then wouldn’t the Sindar were counted as one of the Calaquendi, or light elves?

Here’s some Tolkien-written information on the term Calaquendi which might help you sort it out...


There also existed two old compounds containing *kwendī: *kala-kwendī and *mori-kwendī, the Light-folk and the Dark-folk. These terms appear to go back to the period before the Separation, or rather to the time of the debate among the Quendi concerning the invitation of the Valar. They were evidently made by the party favourable to Orome, and referred originally to those who desired the Light of Valinor (where the ambassadors of the Elves reported that there was no darkness), and those who did not wish for a place in which there was no night. But already before the final separation *mori-kwendī may have referred to the glooms and the clouds dimming the sun and the stars during the War of the Valar and Melkor, [*] so that the term from the beginning had a tinge of scorn, implying that such folk were not averse to the shadows of Melkor upon Middle-earth.

The lineal descendants of these terms survived only in the languages of Aman. The Quenya forms were Kalaquendi and Moriquendi. The Kalaquendi in Quenya applied only to the Elves who actually lived or had lived in Aman; and the Moriquendi was applied to all others, whether they had come on the March or not. The latter were regarded as greatly inferior to the Kalaquendi, who had experienced the Light of Valinor, and had also acquired far greater knowledge and powers by their association with the Valar and Maiar.

In the period of Exile the Ñoldor modified their use of these terms, which was offensive to the Sindar. Kalaquendi went out of use, except in written Ñoldorin lore. Moriquendi was now applied to all other Elves, except the Ñoldor and Sindar, that is to Avari or to any kind of Elves that at the time of the coming of the Ñoldor had not long dwelt in Beleriand and were not subjects of Elwë. It was never applied, however, to any but Elvish peoples. The old distinction, when made, was represented by the new terms Amanyar ’those of Aman’, and Úamanyar or Úmanyar ’those not of Aman’, beside the longer forms Amaneldi and Úmaneldi.’ JRRT Quendi And Eldar The War of the Jewels

Nieliqui Vaneyar 23/Oct/2006 at 10:48 AM
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Durin, put somewhat simply, I believe, Light elves refer to those who actually saw the Light of the Two Trees.  These would include the Vanyar, the Noldor, and some of the Teleri, all before Melkor and Ungoliant destroyed the Two Trees. 

(Some of) The Sindar who were part of the Teleri, did not get to Valinor (or Tol Eressea) until after the Two Trees were destroyed, so they never saw the Light.  Legolas, his father Thranduil and grandfather, Oropher, are examples of Sindarin Elves who most likely lived in Beleriand but came back East before the destruction of Beleriand, and never saw the Light.  Thingol, the King of Doriath, actually saw the Light for a brief time, but came back to Beleriand to rule a kingdom, mostly of Sindarin elves.

And of course, I would guess, some Sindar never really made it to Valinor or Tol Eressea because for whatever reason they didn’t want to leave Middle-earth.

Durin of Moria 28/Nov/2006 at 11:06 PM
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But then would the Sindar live with the Vanyar, Noldor and Lindar in Valinor? Then the Sindar who always wished to go to Valinor would be contented.( for example, Elwe ( if he is alive ))

Lifur 03/Dec/2006 at 05:34 PM
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Elwe was not counted as true Sindar.  He has of Aman, as he beheld the two trees, and thus was not as the Sindar who had remained in Beleriand