Dol Guldur

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Aranel the Grey 12/Nov/2006 at 09:15 AM
New Soul Points: 13 Posts: 11 Joined: 01/Sep/2006

We know in the hobbit, Sauron makes an outpost in mirkwood, Dol Guldur.  but do we know WHY he made it?

For the ring?  To open up a new front in his upcoming war? for smaug?

I believe that he was trying to get control of the dragon.  Tell me if I’m right, but didn’t the white council attack Dol Guldur AFTER smaug was killed?  That is why I believe Sauron feinted an escape - he ahd no more reason to be there at the moment.

how massive WAS his army?  The attack on Minas Tirith seems like just a tiny bit of his power.

I am just simply intergued by Saurons lands.  We know nearly nothing of his enpire in the east, or his complete plans.  What was Sauron going to do after he took over Middle Earth?  Go for Valinor?

This might be in the wrong forum - I apologize if it is.

The Spork Man 12/Nov/2006 at 11:24 AM
Craftsman of Minas Tirith Points: 1340 Posts: 3398 Joined: 29/Jul/2004
This sounds like a Basic Lore thing actually, but it still fits okay here.
The attack on Minas Tirith was indeed only art of his army, We know this because of the description of the Black Gate battle [the title has slippped my brain]. And, dare I say, the imagery in the movies.
Sauron only sent part of his force to Minas Tirith, I think, to save the rest for any backlash that might come [and it sure did.]
If he had taken over Middle-Earth, I’m positive his next target would have been Valinor. It’s unlikely he would’ve been able to take it over, but anything is possible.
sacredfeminine 12/Nov/2006 at 12:36 PM
Apprentice of the Shire Points: 152 Posts: 18 Joined: 15/Aug/2006
I dont think Valinor would be his target, providing that its not really accsible from Middle earth any more. But i do believe sauron only sent a portion of his force to Minas Tirith, i believe that much of his force was actually send north to other places in middle earth, but that may just be rumour or superstition, i dont know. Also the history of Dol Guldur is a mystery to me
Qtpie 12/Nov/2006 at 02:53 PM
Commander of Mordor Points: 22280 Posts: 12880 Joined: 17/Nov/2005
sacredfeminine: Maybe I can help you with this one. Dol Guldur was the fortress of Sauron after he was defeated in the War of the Last Alliance. Dol Guldur was originally Amon Lanc where King Oropher dwelled with his people but they gradually moved northward. The "power" that dwelt in Dol Guldur was known as the Necromancer and no one really knew who it was but Gandalf had a hunch. Thrain was captured and thrown into the dungeons of Dol Guldur and one of the Seven Dwarven Rings was also taken from him. Gandalf explored Dol Guldur quite a bit and found out that it was Sauron and a Council was held and decided that Saruman and the rest of the Council would drive Sauron away. But Sauron already left to Barad-dur and one of the Nazgul was positioned there to command it. Celeborn and Galadriel finally threw down the walls of Dol Guldur and captured the fortress after Sauron was defeated and the shadow was lifted. This was the history of Dol Guldur. I doubt that Sauron would be rash enough or even powerful enough to challenge the Lords of the West. If his forces can even find Valinor in the first place, he would then have to challenge the Valar.
Vugar 12/Nov/2006 at 04:47 PM
Chieftain of Mordor Points: 8170 Posts: 5398 Joined: 01/Jun/2004

how massive WAS his army?  The attack on Minas Tirith seems like just a tiny bit of his power.

The entirety of Sauron’s forces during the War of the Ring would have been quite an impressive sight.  Mordor was focused on the destruction of the parallel realm of Gondor, but Sauron also had other forces available to him in the North.  The fortress of Dol Guldur was used as a base of operations to carry out three assaults on the realm of Lothlórien and the realm of Thranduil.  Easterlings from Rhûn assaulted the Dwarves of Erebor and the Men of Dale.  Had those armies gained the victory, they would have been able to bring about havoc as far west as Eriador.  Sauron effectively had two long arms employed in his overall campaign against the Free Peoples.  The left arm struck at the realm of Gondor with its spear, the Witch-king; the right was long and sought to flank Sauron’s southern enemies.

Qtpie 12/Nov/2006 at 08:32 PM
Commander of Mordor Points: 22280 Posts: 12880 Joined: 17/Nov/2005
for smaug?

Sauron may have been looking for Smaug because Smaug would have been a great ally for Sauron. That is why Gandalf wanted to get rid of Smaug in the first place and re-establish the Kingdom Under the Mountain to combat Sauron’s power in the north.

But to resist any attempt from the East to regain Angmar and the northern passes in the mountains there were now only the Dwarves of Iron hills.And beyond them lay the desolation of the Dragon.The Dragon Sauron might use with terrible effect. Appendix A: Durins Folk

If Sauron had gained control of Smaug, it would be a devastating blow to the Free People. Like the quote says Sauron would have used the Dragon to do quite some terrible stuff with terrible effects. But I don’t know why Sauron would set up a fortress in Dol Guldur when the Lonely Mountains are so far up north from it. Sauron could have travelled to the Lonely Mountains himself no?
Harlondir Helcaraxë 14/Nov/2006 at 09:43 PM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1439 Posts: 742 Joined: 26/Oct/2006
I agree with Achaius. The main purpose of going to Dol Guldur was to attack Lothlorien, Rivendell and the realm of Thranduil. But I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of Sauron going to Dol Guldur to search for the Ring. Dol Guldur  was quite far from the Anduin, but at least nearer than Mordor. Anyway, Sauron surely did have a hunch about the Ring having fallen into the River.
Brandywine74 15/Nov/2006 at 05:30 PM
Foolhardy Ent of Fangorn Points: 1291 Posts: 562 Joined: 20/Apr/2006

for Smaug?

Could Sauron have commanded Smaug? I don’t think he would be able to as the dragons seem like quite wild creatures that serve their own ends. In a way they are like Shelob- she does her own thing and isn’t concerned about Sauron, rings etc. Perhaps Smaug may have made a bargain with Sauron but what could Sauron have offered him that he didn’t already have?

An interesting question though.

Qtpie 15/Nov/2006 at 09:11 PM
Commander of Mordor Points: 22280 Posts: 12880 Joined: 17/Nov/2005
I’m not sure if Smaug would completely submit himself to Sauron’s will as they are creatures of great intelligence and might. However it seems like Sauron himself is pretty confident that he can control and use Smaug:

The Dragon Sauron might use with terrible effect. Appendix A: Durin’s Folk

At least Gandalf thinks that Sauron can control and use Smaug to his own ends and Gandalf perceiving this as a possible threat wants to restore the Dwarven Ruler and do away with Smaug so Sauron won’t be able to use him.
Battlehamster 17/Nov/2006 at 04:14 PM
Horse-lord of the Mark Points: 1401 Posts: 515 Joined: 10/Nov/2006
I think Sauron had the same sort of relationship with Smaug as he did with Shelob- sort of a "you wreak havoc on my enemies and I won’t do anything about you and I might even send you food." I suppose there is a better precedent for dragons obeying dark lords than for giant spiders obeying them, though.