The Varags

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Mithrandír 18/Nov/2006 at 05:54 AM
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yesterday, i was reading the Book the Fellowship Of The Ring, and i came across a passage that described what races Sauron had at his command:
’’There are Orcs an Trolls, there are Wargs and Werwolves; and there have been and still are many Men, warriors and kings, that walk alive under the Sun, and rae under his(Sauron’s)sway.’’
what does it mean, there are warriors and kings serving Sauron? What Kings served Sauron? I have never heard of any.
wich Werwolves? Iknew there were Wargs, but i did not know that their were Werwolves.
Alcarináro 18/Nov/2006 at 06:09 AM
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It means there are warriors and kings serving Saurons. There are the numerous Easterling and Southron races of Men that exist. Why would you expect that they not have kings?
As to werewolves, they were primarily of the First Age. Carcharoth was a werewolf, as was Dragluin. And Sauron himself presided over the Island of the Werewolves.
Mithrandír 18/Nov/2006 at 06:38 AM
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It means there are warriors and kings serving Saurons.
Sauron.
thanks!
Moneyhunter 21/Nov/2006 at 08:01 AM
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I am new to this site but even so I find everything that you can do very interesting. I think that yes the people do have kings I mean how could they not. They need someone to govern their races. I am sorry I do not Know much about this subject could you please fill me in
Mithrandír 21/Nov/2006 at 09:37 AM
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They need someone to govern their races.

Very true, but a kingdom could actually survive if it did not have any king. It really depends on what kind of king it is, like if his is bad, good, and what kind of things he would do to the people of his country, City, or any sort of place that he governed in.

And yes, Moneyhunter, i will fill you in(even if i dont know what you mean, exactly) and welcome to the plaza!

Hithleen Eltoran 21/Nov/2006 at 07:40 PM
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Weren’t the Nazgul, formerley "kings of men" who had been gifted with nine rings? Correct me if I’m wrong.
Qtpie 21/Nov/2006 at 09:10 PM
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Hithleen: Here’s a quote that may help:

Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing. Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

The Nazgul were certainly Men before the received the Rings, but we don’t know for sure if they were "kings of men". They could just have’ve been lords or something like that. As you can see in the quote it is after the use of the Nine Rings that the Nazgul became mighty and kings.
Hithleen Eltoran 22/Nov/2006 at 12:27 AM
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Taragolloion: Thanks for clarifying that for me, funny how the mind remembers only what it wants to!
Kaos the Gold 22/Nov/2006 at 02:33 AM
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Oh, and Carcharoth wasn’t a werewolf, he was the biggest wolf ever, called Th Red Maw and sat by the throne of Morgoth.  He swallowed the Silmaril before he was hunted down and destroyed by Huan, Wolfhound of the Valar.  Dragluin was a werewolf though, and he was killed by Huan too.  Then and Sauron morphed into werewolf-form before he was defeated by Huan.  How nice...
Jesus Freak 29/Nov/2006 at 07:41 AM
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I remember Sauron’s transformation into werewolf form. Did he lose that form after he lost that fight with Huan? (Huan was the canine friend of Beren that could speak three times, right?)
Qtpie 29/Nov/2006 at 09:26 PM
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Jesus Freak: Yes, Huan was the Hound of Valinor and also the friend of Beren and could only speak three times like you pointed out. After Sauron’s transformation into the werewolf and after he lost the fight with Huan I believe he transformed into a bat and fled.
Mithrandír 30/Nov/2006 at 04:41 AM
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After Sauron’s transformation into the werewolf and after he lost the fight with Huan I believe he transformed into a bat and fled.

Taragollion, i have never heard of a battle with Huan Lord of Dogs and Sauron-Maiar(although i have heard of both their names)Did they really have a fight with each other? as i said, i have never heard of this confrontation, but i will look it up in the Similirion.

another question: who do you mean when you say that (someone) transformed into a bat and fled? i think it was sauron, as he could transform, but knowing me, i might be wrong.

if thats okay, could you tell me?

Arothir 30/Nov/2006 at 04:39 PM
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Nan-Tathren & Taragolloion:  Sauron did not turn into a bat, he turned into a vampire, not unlike Thuringwethil.  Sauron has been noted as a deciever, able to put on forms as he put on a fair form for Ar Pharazon,.

Nan: Sauron fought Huan when Luthien and Huan came to save Beren, Finrod, and Co. even though by the time they got there Finrod and the other elves died.

Aikanár 01/Dec/2006 at 05:21 PM
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Huan defeated Sauron and made him give up the keys to whatever the place was(it was Sauron’s fortress) Then Huan and Luthien entered the fortress and saved Beren, because Finrod had seved him by giving up his own life. Touching tale I think.

Qtpie 01/Dec/2006 at 05:27 PM
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Halorn: Thanks for the correction .
Vugar 02/Dec/2006 at 12:41 AM
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I see nothing wrong in stating that Sauron took the form of a bat when he fled from the fortress of Tol-in-Gaurhoth.  The only character for comparison would be Thuringwëthil, and "her greatfingered wings were barbed at each joint’s end with and iron claw." (Of Beren and Lúthien, The Silmarillion)  Add also that Lúthien was said to have clad herself in the "bat-fell of Thuringwëthil" (Ibid) and it seems likely that the vampires of Middle-earth were great bats. 

A related subject would be the werewolves, who were known to be wolves inhabited by evil spirits, and not shapeshifters.

Mirkwoodworker 05/Dec/2006 at 01:17 AM
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Excuse me for interrupting an interesting thread about Sauron’s many disguises (guises?), but why is this thread called "The Varags?"

Alcarináro 05/Dec/2006 at 04:37 AM
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Because, Mirkwoodworker, the initial poster (whose post, along with several others, was removed in the archiving process, leaving this empty shell of a thread) decided to give it that name. But no, even that question had nothing to do with the thread title. Absolutely nothing at all...