Ancalagon ?

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Deviant Shadow 27/Nov/2006 at 09:39 PM
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I’ve found that the prefix  an-  in Quenya indicates the mutation of a noun into an adjective.However in the case of Ancalagon, the word calagon doesn’t seem to be a noun with any meaning.If so, what does the name mean ?

Galin 28/Nov/2006 at 04:51 AM
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’Rushing-jaws’ according to the constructed Silmarillion. See ’alak-’ under alqua
Galin 28/Nov/2006 at 04:56 AM
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It’s Grey-elven too... but I can’t edit that into my last post though

Welcome

Magradhaid 28/Nov/2006 at 10:48 AM
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>I’ve found that the prefix  an-  in Quenya indicates the mutation of a noun into an adjective.

Hmm... I’ve never seen that before! Could you give some examples of words where that happened? I thought that it was used to ’intensify’ adjectives, i.e. calima "bright", ancalima "very bright, brightest".

Anyway, Galin is correct about Ancalagon: it shouldn’t be looked upon as the prefix an- + calagon; it consists of anc "jaw", alag "rushing, impetuous", and a suffix (perhaps from *-ndô, -ondô, a male Primitive Quendian suffix). If you have the Silmarillion, look under anca and alqua in the Appendix. The Etymologies in The Lost Road actually define that name as meaning "Biting Storm", i.e. Sindarin alagos "wind storm", and older *álākō "rush, rushing flight, wild wind".

Galin, does your copy of the published Silmarillion have "Rushing Jaws" under Ancalagon in the Index?
Galin 28/Nov/2006 at 02:58 PM
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Tyrhael, it reads ’... root alak- ’rushing’ occuring also in Ancalagon’ (alqua)... and also anca’ ’jaws’ in Ancalagon’ (for the second element in this name see alqua)’.

More technically ’jaws-rushing’ of course 

Deviant Shadow 29/Nov/2006 at 01:26 AM
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Thanks Galin, for both the welcome and the solution, I did find the entry in my index.

Right on the intensifying note Tyrhael, but H. Fauskanger mentioned in his course on Quenya that this ( meaning the an prefix being used to turn a noun into an adjective does happen, albeit rarely.
My hard drive just got formatted so I can’t give you the exact words, but it was in chapter four, the Adjective, around page 84.
Nice to meet you !
Galin 29/Nov/2006 at 04:08 AM
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I’ll just add more Etymologies information on anc (noting Tyrhael’s post)...

ÁNAK- Cf. nak bite ’... Q. anca jaw; N anc; cf Ancalagon’ (and under NAK-) ’...Cf. *an-ká jaw, row of teeth: Q. anka N anc; Anc-alagon ’Biting-storm’, dragon name [ÁLAK]. ... (and) N alag rushing, impetuous; alagos storm of wind. CF. Anc-alagon dragon-name [NAK]

So, that’s why I say according to the constructed Silmarillion above (which has anca ’jaws’ obviously). These entries are Tolkien made of course, though I won’t here go into the story behind Etymologies.

 

Deviant Shadow 29/Nov/2006 at 06:31 AM
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Galin, just a thought, could Ancalagon translate to ’ rushing jaws as hard as stone ’ ? The gon in the latter half of Ancalagon’s name has got me thinking.....
Galin 29/Nov/2006 at 07:54 AM
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Hmmm. I would say it’s not impossible with respect to compounds in general, considering seregon (*sereg + gond), but for myself and this example, I would tend to lean towards a masculine ending rather, as already suggested by Tyrhael.

I actually like ’Biting-storm’ I must add, from the Etymologies, in any case.

Deviant Shadow 29/Nov/2006 at 08:41 PM
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Sounds good, though I must get reading my materials again, thanks very much !
Magradhaid 02/Dec/2006 at 07:00 AM
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*tries this post again*
I looked on Helge’s course, and found nothing about turning adjectives into nouns with an- (that was only given as an intensifying prefix or perhaps ’superlative’); the part I found was about adding -r to adjectives ending in -a, e.g. Vanyar, Vanimar, etc. from vanya, vanima, etc. so that it would literally be "the fair (ones)".
Deviant Shadow 02/Dec/2006 at 12:59 PM
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Ack! My sincerest apologies Tyrhael, for giving you wrong directions.If I don’t understand anything from H.Fauskanger’s course, I tend to look around on the net everywhere for clarifying explainations.Totally my mistake though, picking up stuff without reading it properly or verufying the authencity of the site
The place where I’m most likely to have read it is HERE.
If it’s there, then I’m in the wrong for having mislead you...
If it’s not , well...the yolk’s on me !
Again I apologize for having made the mistake.
Ankala Teaweed 14/Dec/2006 at 03:21 PM
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So, should I change the spelling of my name to AnnK Alagon

Arrr, I like that. Rushing Jaws

Isilmírë 14/Dec/2006 at 04:09 PM
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Imlë Éltano I don’t know whether you have this, but if you don’t know about it, you may be interested. It’s a book by the name of The Languages of Tolkien’s Middle-Earth by Ruth S. Noel. The front cover states that it is, "A complete guide to all fourteen of the languages Tolkien invented." It contains a dicitonary of all non-English words, an English/Elvish glossary, rules of grammar and pronunciation and translations, and how to write Elvish and other alphabets and runes. I would also add that it gives a bit of history of Tolkien’s genius and how he created his languages. It has been of GREAT use to me. Anyone interested in Tolkien’s languages should definitely check it out!

Ankala Teaweed 14/Dec/2006 at 04:13 PM
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I have read elsewhere that it contains some errors. It is an interesting little volume, however.
Battlehamster 14/Dec/2006 at 05:50 PM
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Oh yes, I had it for a while when it didn’t have many of the HoME books or Letters and I thought that it was good.  Then, after i had more stuff to compare it with, I realized it isn’t that great.  If you want a quick guide to the languages it works, but take the stuff init witha grain of salt.