Dark Elves

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Shunshuu 04/Dec/2006 at 09:43 AM
Herald of Imladris Points: 216 Posts: 26 Joined: 25/Nov/2006
i whant to ask you a question about something from the Sillmarilion that i didn’d understod.What hapens with the Dark Elves ?(i don’t know if i am translating corecly from my language).i read that they can’t go to Valinor and i am not shure if i understand corecly.if u can answer i thank you.
Vugar 04/Dec/2006 at 11:29 AM
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Those Elves that would come to be known as the Avari "the Unwilling" were not barred from journeying to Valinor when the choice was first offered to them by the Ainur.  They simply refused the summons and remained in Middle-earth.  The Dark Elves, or Moriquendi, were so named because none of them ever beheld the light of the Two Trees in Valinor.  As they chose to remain in Middle-earth, they would eventually succumb to the passage of time and become invisible to human eyes.

Phil_d_one 04/Dec/2006 at 11:32 AM
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The Dark Elves were of course the Moriquendi, those Elves who didn’t follow the summons of the Valar to Valinor initially (or turned away at some point on the journey) and hence hadn’t seen Valinor. But, being Elves, the invitation remained open to them indefinitely -- they could journey to the Undying Lands whenever they wished. They could not dwell in Valinor itself, but on Tol Eressea, the island off the coast of Aman, but the suggestion is that they could go to Valinor for short periods of time and/or on special occasions.

And a belated welcome to the Plaza, Shunshuu
Mirkwoodworker 05/Dec/2006 at 12:58 AM
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Just to help clarify these terms for Shunshuu: Not all Moriquendi were Avari. Some Moriquendi did want to go to Valinor but, for various reasons, couldn’t make it. But all Avari were also Moriquendi because they never saw the light of the Two Trees in Valinor.

Shunshuu 05/Dec/2006 at 05:53 AM
Herald of Imladris Points: 216 Posts: 26 Joined: 25/Nov/2006
Thx for all the answers,i understand now.i think that i was to happy about having the book and i wasn’t so atention to all the detailes.i think i’ll read the book one more time.thx again
Endril 05/Dec/2006 at 10:57 AM
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Achaius: Succumb to the passage of time? Did they got old and died of they just did that because there body became in a way very "used" and damaged? And how they became invisible? That ment that they were sould and they too went at that end to Valinor, or remained as wondering souls in ME forever?
Tuna 05/Dec/2006 at 11:01 AM
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LF- As Middle-earth was an imperfect world due to the presence of the Melkor element. Just as this is cited as one of the causes for the lessening of the lifespan of the Numenoreans upon their return to Middle-earth because of it’s inability to perfectly sustain the body, I see it as a weariness upon the spirit of the elf in question which can no longer wholly maintain the body after experiencing such. Because of this, IMO, we get what Tolkien refers to as the "fading" of the elves who remain in ME.
Mirkwoodworker 05/Dec/2006 at 03:17 PM
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Quote: Originally posted by Tunathoniel on Tuesday, December 05, 2006
I see it as a weariness upon the spirit of the elf in question which can no longer wholly maintain the body after experiencing such. Because of this, IMO, we get what Tolkien refers to as the "fading" of the elves who remain in ME.


I think that Tunathoniel is correct, because Tolkien wrote--I think it’s in Morgoth’s Ring or War of the Jewels--that while the spirit, or fea, of an Elf is immortal (cannot die as long as Arda exists), the body, or hroa, can. In fact, the hroa "wears out," and that is why Elves "fade." They literally fade into phantoms after millennia, or are diminished in stature--they shrink.
Elhir Bregalad 05/Dec/2006 at 09:01 PM
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If the Moriquendi are called such because they never saw the light of the two trees in Valinor then wouldn’t every elf born after The Darkening of Valinor be considered a Moriquendi?  I’m not sure about the plural or singular form of Moriquendi sorry?  I’ve wondered about this before but no one really gave me an aswer.
Qtpie 05/Dec/2006 at 09:06 PM
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The Moriquendi were as you pointed out Radalas, the Elves who didn’t see the light of the Two Trees and this term also includes the Elves who didn’t journey across the Sea to Valinor.

’Those Elves the Calaquendi call the Úmanyar, since they came never to the land of Aman and the Blessed Realm; but the Úmanyar and the Avari alike they call the Moriquendi, Elves of the Darkness, for they never beheld the Light that was before the Sun and Moon.’ The Silmarillion: Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor