how does aragorn live so long

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elvenboy20 09/Dec/2006 at 12:45 PM
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i forget what aragorn is how does he live so long

DeluhatholSilverleaf 09/Dec/2006 at 12:50 PM
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Aragorn is a direct desendant of the line Elendil, who was a numenorean. Numenoreans were rewarded by the Valar of Valinor, a kin to gods, for their part in the wars of Middle Earth, with a longer life span, and a the Isle of NUmenor to dwelve in. Thats how Aragorn has a longer Life span than "lesser-men". 
morentar 09/Dec/2006 at 06:11 PM
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Elvenboy20,i am quiet surprised that you are forgetting the very basis of the story(kind of).Aragorn was of the line of Valandil grandson of Elendil.Originally the Numenoreans were rewarded a great life(Tar-Minyatur died when he was 510 years old).It was expected that even his descendants will live this long.But unfortunately The Numenoreans mingled with lesser men when they returned to Middle Earth after the destruction of Numenor.Thus Aragorn lived for about 210 years.

Phil_d_one 10/Dec/2006 at 02:27 AM
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It might be worth noting that while all those with Numenorean blood had a longer lifespan than other, ’normal’, men (Faramir lives to 120), Aragorn superceded most even of his ancestors, the Chieftains of the Dunedain. He is in this regard somewhat of an anomaly -- rather than following the pattern he seems a hearken-back to the lifespans of the earlier Kings, which makes sense given the many times he is compared to them throughout the works. His age is, in a way, not only a result of his lineage but also a result of his role in history

Nay, lady, I am the last of the Númenoreans and the latest King of the Elder Days; and to me has been given not only a span thrice that of Men of Middle-earth, but also the grace to go at my will, and give back the gift. Now, therefore, I will sleep.
(Appendix A: Annals of the Kings and Rulers, The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen)

morentar 10/Dec/2006 at 02:41 AM
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Phil_d_one,i wonder what"grace to go at my will and give back the gift" means.Does it imply Aragorn could have lived longer(even till eternity)?

<Ulmo edit: The quote function is there to denote when you quote portions of another person’s post.  Not to merely surround your own.>

hellknight 10/Dec/2006 at 03:10 AM
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Morentar - what aragorn means is that he, like the old kings of Numenor, before it’s fall, has the "ability" to choose his moment of death in a way - instead of waiting for old age to weaken his body and mind, he could lay down his life when he chose to

Lanthir Lamath 10/Dec/2006 at 03:37 AM
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Aragorn did, to some extent, have the ability to pick the moment of his death; but had he decided not to pick it, to go on living, he would not have been able to. In a sense, his choice, chosing to die when he felt ripe, rather than clinging to his body, until it became but a battered shell, is diametrically opposed to that of many a king, who clung to life and thus felt death to be a curse, rather than a blessing; in chosing to die before he *had* to, Aragorn in a way shows he has learned not to yearn for a lifespan that was not given to him. However, because she was granted this span as a child of Elrond, and then gave it away for Aragorn, Arwen’s sense is not the same, nor is her perception of life...imho at least.

Naduil 10/Dec/2006 at 03:57 AM
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What I don’t get is why Aragorn couldn’t just take a boat into the west. I mean he has the right doesn’t he? He is after all married to a very important elf, and he’s also y’know true king of gondor. If he had wanted to he could had sailed off into the west and lived forever. But then why didn’t he? Anyone have any ideas on the subject?
Lanthir Lamath 10/Dec/2006 at 04:04 AM
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He couldn’t have; the west is not for Men, and never has been: Men desired the light of the West so much, that they fell into Sauron’s web of deceit, and lost their own land, Numenor, because of their desire. Answers to this qustion may be found in the Akallabeth (the Silm), which is the tale of te downfall of Numenor.

Men are not permitted to go into the West, because it generally emphasizes their mortality too much. The gist of the tale is that mortality is the gift of Eru to mankind, and no one, not even the Valar, can withhold it from them; even Frodo would eventually die in the west: he didn’t go looking for immortality, but for healing. However much we might love Aragorn, and want him to live forever, we cannot wish this upon him, because it implies a complete negation of all his nature, a turning from good, into evil.

 

Naduil 10/Dec/2006 at 04:26 AM
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He could have. *goes to corner and sulks*
Lanthir Lamath 10/Dec/2006 at 04:41 AM
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Probably could have *tried*, but no one really wants him to 1) Fail or 2) succeed in trying and end up like the last (and only) king who tried_ Ar-Pharazon of Numenor, who was brought low by Illuvatar himself and cast in the depths of the world.

Mithrandír 10/Dec/2006 at 05:32 AM
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 Answers to this qustion may be found in the Akallabeth (the Silm), which is the tale of te downfall of Numenor.

very true, Lanthir Lamath. the Akallabeth was written by Elendil father of Isildur and Anarion. He also was a Numenorean.

Naduil 10/Dec/2006 at 05:43 AM
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"I don’t know who Illuvatar is, as I’m not that big on the silmarillion." Comes a quiet voice from the corner. "Stay away from my corner evil people who dash my theories for at home I have a pointy hat. Not to mention a psycopathic cat-dog-fish-rabbit that will eat you! Stay awat!"

Lanthir Lamath 10/Dec/2006 at 07:07 AM
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Aw c’mon Naduil. If you have a theory and ask the plaza about it, it’s going to be discussed and dissected, before it’s proclaimed either valid of invalid; that’s no reason for you to ask others to stay away...or to stay away from us really. So you haven’t read the Silm, and I have_ *shrug* doesn’t make me any better than you, doesn’t make you any dumber than me_ it just means I’ve been into tolkien for a huge while.

But I’d like to recommend the Silmaril as being a truly wonderful read. It’s my favourite of the books, and it would give you a different depth of perception... as well as answer many questions you might have, from both lotr and the movies *runs before dedicated loreists chase her down*.

Phil_d_one 10/Dec/2006 at 07:28 AM
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But he couldn’t have even replicated what Ar-Pharazon did, Lanthir. For after the Fall of Numenor, Valinor was removed from the Circles of the World, and the world made roud. Had Aragorn sailed West, he would merely have circumvented the Earth, and ended up in the East. Only the Elves (and those with the express permission of the Valar) could find the straight road West to Valinor, and Aragorn was not one of these.

And even if he somehow made it to Valinor, he wouldn’t live forever. In fact, though it would seem like a longer time to him, he would probably live for a shorter period of time than had he remained in Middle-earth. Frodo, Sam, Bilbo and Gimli would all have died, though at a moment of their choosing, just like Aragorn.

Which begs the question, why would Aragorn want to sail West? Why would he, at the moment when he has finally achieved all that his life has been geared towards, leave it? Doesn’t make much sense if you ask me

Qtpie 10/Dec/2006 at 01:34 PM
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Here’s a quote explaining why the Men of Numenor had such long lives:

’To the Fathers of Men of the three faithful houses rich reward also was given. Eonwe came among them and taught them; and they were given wisdom and power and life more enduring than any others of mortal race have possessed.’ The Silmarillion: Akallabeth

And here’s a quote to back up what Phil is talking about:

’And those that sailed furthest set but a girdle about the Earth and returned weary at last to the place of their beginning; and they said: ’All roads are now bent.’Thus in after days, what by the voyages of of ships, what by lore and star-craft, the kings of Men knew that the world was indeed made round, and yet the Eldar were permitted still to depart and to come to the Ancient West and to Avallone, if they would.’ The Silmarillion: Akallabeth
Nogrod2605 11/Dec/2006 at 10:34 AM
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Uhm I was too tired to read through the entire thread, so I will just put my little two cents into this. First of all, Aragorn Elessar Telcontar, descended from the line of Valandil, heir of Isildur, son of Elendil, first High King of the Duneidan. The Duneidan were given a long life as a gift from the Valar when Numenor was first created. This "gift" or long life was passed on as long as the Numenorians married within each other. What I mean, is that if  a Numenorean would marry a non-Numenorean, they offspring would obviously have a shorter life span. There are cases however, when that was not that case. I cannot remember the name of the particular name of the king, but I do remember reading in the Appendix of Gondor’s kings that one of the kings prior to internal fights which they had, was not of full duneidan descendency. I think his name was Romendacil, or something like that. Anyway, he was not liked by the nobles of Gondor, and they hoped to gain the throne thinking his life would have been short, but nay, his life was just as long as the common standard of most Numenorean men who lived in Middle Earth.

Quote: Originally posted by Lanthir Lamath on Sunday, December 10, 2006


Probably could have *tried*, but no one really wants him to 1) Fail or 2) succeed in trying and end up like the last (and only) king who tried_ Ar-Pharazon of Numenor, who was brought low by Illuvatar himself and cast in the depths of the world.


Also, I truly wonder what would have happened to Aragorn if he would ever have tried to sail to the West. I am sure he never would have done such a thing, as he did not crave for immortality. But didnt Amandil, father of Elendil, sail to the west to warn the Valar of Ar pharazon’s madness? What became of him? Did he fail in trying to emulate Earendil?
Wilibald Bumble 11/Dec/2006 at 07:09 PM
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Aragon is a direct descendant of the Dunedain or the Numenoreans. Now Numenoreans were granted gifts not of immortality but of longer life than Lesser Men by Manwe in Valinor as they helped in the War of Wrath and fought against Evil. After they journeyed to Middle Earth and Numenor was destroyed by Eru for defying their promise of not journeying to the Immortal Lands or Valinor, the Faithful or the Elffreinds(remember that the Numenoreans later persecuted Elf-Friends and disliked Elf as they got to go to the Undying Lands) went to Middle Earth as Numenor fell and the whole continent sank. They went to the kingdom of Gondor and taught many a craft to the men there. They started the kingdom of Gondor and planted the White Tree. Now you should still remember that the line of Numenor is still descending and then through the ages after the fall of kings and in the Third Age, it went all the way down to Aragon Son of Arathon who was heir of Isildur or the last true Numenorean king.
Qtpie 11/Dec/2006 at 07:19 PM
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Nogrod: Aragorn couldn’t have made it to Valinor if he ever tried to sail West. He would just have circumvented the world, and end up where he started. If you read the last quote I posted above you would find out what happened to any Men if they attempted such a thing. No one knew what happened to Amandil except for the fact that he just sailed west.

’It is said that Amandil set sail in a small ship at night, and steered first eastward. and then went about and passed into the west. And he took with him three servants, dear to his heart, and never again were they heard of by word or by sign in this world, nor is there any tale or guess of their fate.’ The Silmarillion: Akallabeth
Quende Melissė 12/Dec/2006 at 08:29 AM
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My view - even if Aragorn had the chance to sail to West, I bet he wouldn`t do it, because he was the king of Gondor. All his life he was trying to do his faith, bring Gondor back to Numeronan blood. He couldn`t just leave it all, that would be betrail to his nation. What kind of king he would be? He was so great in his spirit and wisdom, that he just would do his bussiness, and I`m sure he loved his country as strong as he loved Arwen Evenstar.
Kaulargorn 13/Dec/2006 at 06:16 AM
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Adding to the just above post: Aragorn didn’t have any authority to go to the Undying Landsn as he wasn’t a ringcarrier and moreover how could he go to the West when Arwen didn’t go in order to live with him in middle earth? That would be a bit of betray. The more appropriate question would be why Arwen didn’t go after Aragorn’s death, the answer is obvious though
Mirkwoodworker 13/Dec/2006 at 08:52 PM
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Aragorn would never have even considered sailing west to Aman. He was educated in the greatest university in Middle-earth: Rivendell. He had a post-doc in Elven-lore. So he knew that mortals were forbidden to travel to Aman. As stated above, he couldn’t have reached it if he tried. Aragorn also accepted his mortality as a gift from Iluvatar, with the ability to voluntarily die when he grew weary of the world (as the Numenoreans once did).

Check out the "Lifespan of Men in Middle-earth" thread in the Middle-earth People and Races forum, which also addresses the topic of Dunedain lifespans.
Kirinki54 16/Dec/2006 at 04:45 AM
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Thinking about it, this business of finding the right moment to lie down peacefully and leave this world is rather peculiar. Does it not in theory imply that there is in fact such a moment: a time when it is right to leave the world?

 

And if so, why – was that moment predestined? Or did Aragorn (or prior Numenorean kings) have to live a righteous life, along moral and just lines, in order to one day find that precise and perfect moment had arrived, when everything seemed set and in order for moving on beyond the circles of the world? Leading a life in this sense of morality would likely assure good governance as a by-product.

outtafitz836 28/Dec/2006 at 06:47 PM
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Aragorn is amazing. (I just had to get that out.) Did you all know that in the books Aragorn was like 20 years older than Theoden?? It’s true! But anyway, there are two reasons that Aragorn lived as long as he did.
1) Aragorn is a descendant of the line of Elendil, who was a Numenorean. Numenoreans were seen as "akin to the GOds" and were favored by those in Valinor. Because of this, they were considered great, and were given a longer lifespan than "lesser men".

2) I don’t remember how, but Aragorn is also a descendant of Luthien Tinuviel, daughter of Melian the Maia. It is an odd relationship, one of those father’s uncles cousin’s sisters’ child’s daughters’ wifes’ boyfriend kind of things, but whatever.

*I would take this opportunity to point out that this means Aragorn and Arwen were related already as Arwen is also a descendant of Luthien*

Steophan 29/Dec/2006 at 03:21 AM
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Outtafitz836 wrote *I would take this opportunity to point out that this means Aragorn and Arwen were related already as Arwen is also a descendant of Luthien*

Aragorn is a direct descendent of Elros, the first king of Numenor and Elrond’s brother.  I believe that makes Aragorn and Arwen 1st cousins, many times removed. Elros did as Arwen eventually does, and chose to become mortal and dwell as a man.

All the line of the Halfelven descend from Earendil and Elwing, son of Tuor and Idril, and granddaugnter of Beren and Luthien.
Phil_d_one 29/Dec/2006 at 03:53 AM
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Assuming an equal number of generations in the lines of the Kings of Numenor and that of the Lords of Andunie between the split and Ar-Pharazon/Elendil (which is probably not entirely accurate, since Elendil’s lifespan, and presumably that of his ancestors, was significantly longer than that of Ar-Pharazon and his ancestors), then Aragorn was Arwen’s cousin sixty-six times removed, which is such a distant relationship that it hardly bears thinking about in that manner
Steophan 29/Dec/2006 at 04:00 AM
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Wasn’t really thinking about it in any manner, especially not that one
If the fact matters to anyone, it’s probably Elrond, for whom the relationship would matter - I expect that’s why he took Gilraen and Aragorn into Rivendell originally. Elrond, of course, and his line, would be the only people capable of having such relationships, due to teh uniqueness of the Halfelven nature.

Dragons Malice 29/Dec/2006 at 07:38 AM
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Phil I am trying to follow the ancestory of the Lords of Andunie, can you enlighten me?
My calculations put Aragorn and Arwen as 1st cousins 61 times removed, but I could be (and probably are) wrong.
Phil_d_one 29/Dec/2006 at 07:59 AM
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Actually you’re probably right. I made that calculation a while back, with the assumption (as I said) of Ar-Pharazon and Elendil belonging to the same generation vis a vis Elros, an assumption which I accepted to be certainly incorrect due to the fact that the Lords of Andunie were longer lived than the Kings of Numenor. Since then I found out something that I didn’t know when I made that calculation, and which I never incorporated into a new calculation. So let’s see:

The common ancestor between Aragorn and Arwen is Earendil, such that she was cousins with Valandil, and Tar-Amandil was her first cousin once removed. So the intervening generations are as follows.

to Silmarien (Kings of Numenor)
15 to Earendur (Lords of Andunie)
2 to Numendil
2 to Elendil
1 to Isildur (High Kings)
10 to Earendur (Kings of Arnor)
15 to Arvedui (Kings of Arthedain)
16 to Aragorn (Chieftains of the Dunedain)
-----
64 intervening generations.

Thus Aragorn was Arwen’s cousin 64 times removed, which is indeed different to my original calculation, but still different to yours. Did you use a different reckoning at any point, or is there a glaring error somewhere in my calculation?

Velocity 29/Dec/2006 at 03:03 PM
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Well, by choosing a mortal life and to stay with Aragorn, didn’t Arwen give up her right to go to the west?  If that’s true  then Aragorn and Arwen wouldn’t be able to go west, and Arwen wouldn’t be able to go west after his death.

Dragons Malice 30/Dec/2006 at 07:29 AM
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Phil I concur with your calculations up to Isildur (23) but to Earendur I believe it to be 8 more, not 10, bringing the final tally to another new result of First Cousins 62 times removed.

Just to clarify (and make sure I’m not missing someone):
Isildur 23
Valandil 24
Eldacar 25
Arantar 26
Tarcil 27
Tarondor 28
Valandur 29
Elendur 30
Earendur 31....Arvedui 46....Aragorn 62

Phil_d_one 30/Dec/2006 at 09:19 AM
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Yes, I can see where I went wrong this time. I registered Earendur as the 10th King of Arnor in my mind without realising that this made Elendil, not Valandil, the 1st. Stupid mistake really.

So yes, it would seem that 62 is the best figure we have