Mordor

Archive Home > Middle-earth People & Races
Meril Green 10/Dec/2006 at 06:52 AM
Minstrel of Lothlorien Points: 2632 Posts: 5001 Joined: 31/Jul/2005
This question is probably answered somewhere in the appendixes, but i have not found it.
So, my question- Was Mordor dormant all of the time that Sauron was quote unquote dead? Was it just deserted after the battle of the last alliance, and everything suddenly started up again? If so, it would have been very easy for Gandalf to know that something was going on if one day there were people and everything. Which leads me to suspect that it wasn’t deserted, and that it simply just went in over time once the ring was re surfaced.
Help?
Mithrandír 10/Dec/2006 at 07:00 AM
Linguist of Lothlorien Points: 3280 Posts: 3291 Joined: 13/Mar/2006

So, my question- Was Mordor dormant all of the time that Sauron was quote unquote dead?

i think so. I mean, who would really want to live in that place, next to Mount Doom, where the Lava kept spilling out in eruptions, and it would have been quite hard to live there, in my opinion.

Mithrandír 10/Dec/2006 at 07:15 AM
Linguist of Lothlorien Points: 3280 Posts: 3291 Joined: 13/Mar/2006

sorry, i had to rush just then and coudn’t put more information in, but ill have another try now:

as i said, who would want to live next to Mount Doom( The Orcs that were under Sauron’s dominion lived there because that was were there master lived, and if they tried to flee their camp, they would probably be killed, but i dont think that any Orc would try to desert for fear of being lost in the Wilderness that was further from Mordor) And also: who would have lived there? wich Race? Men? hardly, or we would have known about it a long time ago. I dont think i would touch the idea of Elves or Dwarves... Haradrim? maybe some tribe of Haradrim could have moved in for a short while( but that also was very unlikley)ummm...  Hobbits?NO!so in short, my opinion is that Mordor was dormant at that time(when Sauron lost the Battle of The Last Alliance).

Vugar 10/Dec/2006 at 07:41 AM
Chieftain of Mordor Points: 8170 Posts: 5398 Joined: 01/Jun/2004

That seemed to be the official state of affairs.  In fact, this was the description of Mordor under the reign of Hyarmendacil in Gondor, which would place the following quote about the year T.A. 1050

"Mordor was desolate, but was watched over by great fortresses that guarded the passes." (Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion, Appendix A)

The events that would take place some 180 years later could hardly be ignored by the inhabitants of Middle-earth.  The Witch-king came to Mordor in T.A. 1980 and there gathered the Ringwraiths.  In T.A. 2000 they would besiege the fortress of Minas Ithil, which would fall to them in T.A. 2002 and become known as Minas Morgul.  But even so, the Wise never began to suspect that Sauron was taking shape again until the year T.A. 2060.  The power of Mordor would began to increase at a faster rate in the centuries to come.  The assaults upon Gondor were renewed, and Mordor was steadily prepared for the return of Sauron (no doubt by his greatest servants the Nazgûl).

My final opinion would be that Mordor was seemingly deserted to the point that Gondor was able to maintain a watch upon it in the early Third Age.  Its power slowly but surely began to rise due to the presence of the Nazgûl, or so I would think.  Due to several factors, the attention of the Wise seemed to mainly be focused on the threat of Dol Guldur.  By the time Sauron fled that fortress due to the White Council, Mordor was effectively prepared for his return.

Qtpie 10/Dec/2006 at 01:57 PM
Commander of Mordor Points: 22280 Posts: 12880 Joined: 17/Nov/2005
The Nazgul like Achaius pointed out were preparing Mordor for Sauron’s return, so I doubt Mordor was completely deserted.

’For the Dark Lord had foreseen it, and he had long prepared all his movements; and the Ulari, his Nine Servants, had gone before him to make ready for his coming. Therefor his flight was but a feint, and he soon returned, ere the Wise could prevent him he re-entered his kingdom in Mordor and reared once again the dark towers of Barad-dur.’ The Silmarillion: If the Rings of Power and the Third Age
Meril Green 11/Dec/2006 at 02:12 PM
Minstrel of Lothlorien Points: 2632 Posts: 5001 Joined: 31/Jul/2005
Thanks so much you guys, You’re all a real help.

Nan- Tathren- along the lines as of what I was thinking, thanks again.

Achaius- So i was right- it is found in the appendixes! Well, I suppose everything is found there right?  Ok, I understand- and what you’re saying does make a lot of sense, thanks.

Taragolloion- Ah, ok. So it’s time to re-read the Sil then.
Qtpie 11/Dec/2006 at 06:14 PM
Commander of Mordor Points: 22280 Posts: 12880 Joined: 17/Nov/2005
Merilruin:
Mithrandír 13/Dec/2006 at 04:37 AM
Linguist of Lothlorien Points: 3280 Posts: 3291 Joined: 13/Mar/2006
thats quite oright, Merilruin.
Deagol77 15/Dec/2006 at 12:31 PM
Banned Points: 338 Posts: 64 Joined: 31/Oct/2006
In the books somewhere it says that as soon as Sauron showed up in Mordor, Mount Doom started back up. This means that without its master, the land just lay dormant until he showed up again. That means that his servants probably didn’t go back until Sauron did, too.
Vugar 15/Dec/2006 at 12:49 PM
Chieftain of Mordor Points: 8170 Posts: 5398 Joined: 01/Jun/2004

In the books somewhere it says that as soon as Sauron showed up in Mordor, Mount Doom started back up.

Actually, Orodruin burst into flame three years after Sauron openly declared himself and began to gather his power in Mordor.  Look at these entries from the Tale of Years from Appendix B:

2951
Sauron declares himself openly and gathers power in Mordor. He begins the rebuilding of Barad-dûr.

2954
Mount Doom bursts into flame again. The last inhabitants of Ithilien flee over Anduin.


That means that his servants probably didn’t go back until Sauron did, too.

Sauron’s greatest servants the Nazgûl were gathered in Mordor under their leader the Witch-king in T.A. 1980.  That was 971 years before Sauron declared himself openly in T.A. 2951.  Look above to my earlier post for a broader explanation of how Mordor was prepared for Sauron’s arrival long before he actually returned.

Qtpie 15/Dec/2006 at 08:45 PM
Commander of Mordor Points: 22280 Posts: 12880 Joined: 17/Nov/2005
Is this the quote you are referring to Deagol?

’Now Sauron prepared war against the Eldar and the Men of Westernesse, and the fires of the Mountain were awakened again. Wherefore seeing the smoke of Orodruin from afar, and perceiving that Sauron had returned, the Numenoreans named that mountain anew Amon Amarth, which is Mount Doom. The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age
Harlondir Helcaraxë 16/Dec/2006 at 12:49 AM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1439 Posts: 742 Joined: 26/Oct/2006
And I think it’s mentioned somewhere that even before the Nazgul came, the watch of the Gondorians (from the great fortresses over the passes, as quoted by Achaius) on the vast desolation of Mordor failed, and many creatures crept into Mordor from outside.
Daywalker 16/Dec/2006 at 03:30 AM
Tulkas Points: 18469 Posts: 12218 Joined: 17/Dec/2004

Harlondir - I think it’s Nazguls that are those creatures. Yet in this second quote it says that the Valley of Minas Morgul passed to evil long ago but again i take this that it means his servants, Nazguls.

`But in the wearing of the swift years of Middle-earth the line of Meneldil son of Anárion failed, and the Tree withered, and the blood of the Númenoreans became mingled with that of lesser men. Then the watch upon the walls of Mordor slept, and dark things crept back to Gorgoroth. And on a time evil things came forth, and they took Minas Ithil and abode in it, and they made it into a place of dread; and it is called Minas Morgul, the Tower of Sorcery. Then Minas Anor was named anew Minas Tirith, the Tower of Guard; and these two cities were ever at war, but Osgiliath which lay between was deserted and in its ruins shadows walked.’LotR

 

`The valley of Minas Morgul passed into evil very long ago, and it was a menace and a dread while the banished Enemy dwelt yet far away, and Ithilien was still for the most part in our keeping. As you know, that city was once a strong place, proud and fair, Minas Ithil, the twin sister of our own city. But it was taken by fell men whom the Enemy in his first strength had dominated, and who wandered homeless and masterless after his fall. It is said that their lords were men of Númenor who had fallen into dark wickedness; to them the Enemy had given rings of power, and he had devoured them: living ghosts they were become, terrible and evil. After his going they took Minas Ithil and dwelt there, and they filled it, and all the valley about, with decay: it seemed empty and was not so, for a shapeless fear lived within the ruined walls. Nine Lords there were, and after the return of their Master, which they aided and prepared in secret, they grew strong again.’LotR

Harlondir Helcaraxë 16/Dec/2006 at 04:03 AM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1439 Posts: 742 Joined: 26/Oct/2006
Thanks for the quote, Daywalker. And yet your quote proves that before the Nazgul many creatures did enter Mordor: Then the watch upon the walls of Mordor slept, and dark things crept back to Gorgoroth. This could also be the Nazgul, but I do not see why Tolkien should use two different descriptions for the same entities in two consecutive sentences.
Daywalker 16/Dec/2006 at 04:28 AM
Tulkas Points: 18469 Posts: 12218 Joined: 17/Dec/2004
Yes that could be the case Harlondir and i’m not saying that it isn’t one possibility. Ringwraiths went to Mordor lot before Mr Bad came there to make it ready and then it turned to evil place. Now every quote says something about Nazgul and therefore it’s assumed (me atleast) that those creatures were infact Nazguls. Altough it would be nice how many other creatures Shelob drew there..
Naduil 16/Dec/2006 at 06:39 AM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 182 Posts: 753 Joined: 02/Dec/2006
Nah Mordor wasn’t. Orcs still lived there but there weren’t as many of them and they had no leader. They probably fought each other and stuff. Maybe some left (that might be how they got all over middle-earth) but mordor’s so big it can’t have had no orcs living in it. It’s a total improbability.
Harlondir Helcaraxë 16/Dec/2006 at 08:02 AM
Fletcher of Lothlorien Points: 1439 Posts: 742 Joined: 26/Oct/2006

Daywalker : Hmm...