The other Wizards

Archive Home > Middle-earth People & Races
Tenharien Calmcacil 10/Dec/2006 at 12:22 PM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2766 Posts: 1583 Joined: 25/Aug/2008
I have not read the simarilion so i do not nkow much about other chracters outside the lord of the rings. Where were the other wizards and such(apart from gandalf and saruman) during the war of the ring, and what happened to them? Are there any other magical people? how was the art passed on? I dont recall gandalf teaching any magic.
Tuna 10/Dec/2006 at 12:31 PM
Assassin of Mordor Points: 5570 Posts: 6645 Joined: 11/Mar/2004

Radagast played a minor role in the War of the Ring by helping both Saruman (carried the message to Gandalf) and Gandalf (by having his animal friends searching about for intel). The two Blue Wizards were in the East and were actively resisting Sauron by their efforts, limiting the numbers that Sauron could call upon from that direction.

Gandalf’s magic wasn’t something that could be taught to another. It was entirely derived and inspired from his true existance as a Maia, and therefore nothing that another could just learn.

geordie 10/Dec/2006 at 12:35 PM
Hugo Bracegirdle Points: 20570 Posts: 14087 Joined: 06/Mar/2005
Radagast is the only other wizard mentioned in the story [to any extent] - he pops up in flashback as it were, in Gandalf’s report to the Council of Elrond. The other two are’nt mentioned by name in LotR. In the essay The Istari [Unfinished Tales] they are named Alador and Pallando; the Blue Wizards, who went off East and were nevr heard of again.

As for ’magic’ - the Istari never taught anyone magic; why would they? It’s not the sort of thing anyone can learn, for one thing. The ’wizards’ were’nt sorcerors or conjurors as we know the word - they were Ainur - specifically, Maiar - not humans at all.
geordie 10/Dec/2006 at 12:36 PM
Hugo Bracegirdle Points: 20570 Posts: 14087 Joined: 06/Mar/2005
Blimey - I’ve done another simul [second time tonight]   
Vugar 10/Dec/2006 at 03:43 PM
Chieftain of Mordor Points: 8170 Posts: 5398 Joined: 01/Jun/2004

Are there any other magical people?

Well, yes there are.  It would be worth mentioning that some Men became skilled in the arts of magic.  This is noteworthy because it is in conflict with the naturally derived abilities of such beings as the Istari due to their Maiar nature.  Men who became learned in sorcery, such as the Lord of the Nazgûl or the Mouth of Sauron, came to it through unnatural means.

halfir 10/Dec/2006 at 06:48 PM
Emeritus Points: 46547 Posts: 43664 Joined: 10/Mar/2002

Tenharien: Tolkien’s view regarding the Blue Wizards changed over time- as did their names- until the 1972 short essay on the subject in which he clearly saw them as Tunathoniel has posted as being active in combatting Sauron by rousing those who remained free from allegiance to him in the East. You can read more about them in these threads:

Something New About Somethings Blue


As regards Radagast we are not told what happened to him after his meeting with Gandalf, other than that he clearly helped Gandalf by informing his various anima/bird friends to report to Gandalf, thus being instrumental in Gandalf’s escape from Orthanc. Interestingly enough in a later writing (as yet not specifically dated) Tolkien wrote that Gandalf was in fact closer to the birds and animals than Radagast, and that the latter, while not failing in his duty like Saruman, did not fulfil the high obligations placed upon him and the other Istari by the Valar.



Tenharien Calmcacil 10/Dec/2006 at 09:37 PM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2766 Posts: 1583 Joined: 25/Aug/2008
Wow, well that is all interesting. Thank you all for your help and the links,
Pengolodh. What kinds of magic are there however? And what about the magic of the elves. Didnt Arwen summon some type of magic? Is Elrond’s healing power magic as well?
halfir 11/Dec/2006 at 01:39 AM
Emeritus Points: 46547 Posts: 43664 Joined: 10/Mar/2002

Tenharien: I can do no better, initially, than to refer you to the following thread, and particularly to the posts of my good friend Parmardil- one of which I have excerpted below. I strongly recommend you read both Parmardil’s posts and those of the other Istari loremasters who posted in what is probably the best thread on magic on the Plaza. If, once you have read it , you have further questions, please do not hesitate to ask, but I think much of what you seek to know is answered there in the best possible way, and it would be foolish to attempt to improve on it. And BTW- welcome to the Plaza.X(

The Way of the Istari

Parmardil’s Post

Relative magic and objective magic
First of all, we must consider that in Tolkien’s works the concept of magic has usually a relative meaning, that is to say it depends on the subject that uses the word: the actions and realizations of the Elves appear magical to Men, Dwarves and Hobbit (and to the readers) because they do no possess the same skill, but they are not magical for the Elves themselves, since they fall within their "normal" possibilities, within their nature as Firstborn. The same we can say for the actions and realizations of the Valar and Maiar. But, as I will try to explain further on, Tolkien envisages also the existence of what I would call "objective magic", i.e. a magic that is not the immediate manifestation of the inner talents of the user.

Sub-creative power
Following the thought of Tolkien, as expressed in his letters, some of the beings dwelling in Arda have, in a greater or lesser degree, the capacity to sub-create , i.e. to act upon the Creation, Eä, the World that Is, the realization of the Vision and the Ainulindalë by the will of Ilúvatar. Quoting his words, "liberation ‘from the channels the creator is known to have used already’ is the fundamental function of sub-creation" (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, letter n. 153).
Now, this power is intrinsically neither good nor evil: as for the things of our world, the consequences of its use depend on the purpose and nature of the user.
The Valar possess this power of sub-creation in the highest degree; they use it in the implementation of the mission given them by Eru: the "guardianship" of Arda.
After the Valar we have the Maiar: less powerful beings, but of the same "order" of the Valar: they help them in their task.
Both these categories of superior beings can be deemed to represent the incarnation of natural forces (sea, wind, earth, flora and fauna), intellectual and moral qualities (prowess, knowledge and craftmanship, pity, immagination) or spiritual forces (destiny). Thus their very nature is imbued with the power of sub-creation: they show it at its mightest in the shaping of Arda after the Creation. (cfr. Silmarillion, chapt. 1: Ainulindalë). In subsequent ages their use of sub-creation gets very limited and rare.
Descending, as it were, on Arda itself we come to the Elves, the Firstborn of the Children of Eru. With them, and the Men that followed, we pass from the cosmogony to the history; in the same way this power of sub-creation gets more "practical", more akin to the kind of "magic" we are used to find in tales and fables.
In Tolkien’s works, and especially in The Lord of the Rings, Elves’ sub-creative power express itself, it seems to me, in two ways:
1) Attunement to Nature:all the Elves (Eldar and Moriquendi) are in much deeper armony with Nature than Men or other races are. This "attunement" with life in all its forms permit them to interact and "communicate" with the flora and fauna of Middle-Earth in a way that seems "magical" to less perceptive beings: think for example of Legolas hearing the words of the stones in Hollin (The Lord of the Rings, chapt. The Ring goes South) or Elves "waking trees up and teaching them to speak and learning their tree-talk", as Treebeard tells Merry and Pippin in Fangorn (LotR, chapt. Treebeard). This kind of phenomenon, however, though in itself related with the sub-creative power I spoke of above, is more of a manifestation of the inner nature of the Elves than an expression o their will (i.e it is more "passive" than "active").

2)Sub-creative will: i.e. the realization of one’s desires through the use of interior talents and/or external instruments. Here we get another step closer to what we (and now Tolkien also) call "magic": the use of some "power" in order to achieve our ends more quickly and completely. The Eldar in general and the Noldor in particular are the great masters of this kind of expression of the sub-creative power: they use it mainly for artistic purposes and the Silmarils are their greatest achievement in this sense: "Their (the Elves’) ‘magic’ is Art, delivered from many of the its human limitations: more effortless, more quick, more complete (...). And its object is Art, not Power, sub-creation and not domination and tirannous re-forming of Creation." (Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, letter n. 131). How this can be called "magical" depends, again, on the observer: the Silmarils are certainly magical artifacts for Men, but for the Elves they are simply the result of a superior skill, aided by the teaching of a Valar. And so are the other realizations of the Elves: the elven cloacks and ropes, lembas, the elevish blades, the dwellings of Menegroth, Nargothrond, etc.. In the making of many of these, of course, their particular "attunement to nature" has as much a part as their "sub-creative will".

The sub-creative will as magic in Tolkien’s world
Here we come to the core concept in the conception of magic in Middle-Earth: "magic" serves the will, it is a mean to realize the will. And here it differentiates according to the purpose of the will it realizes: it can be Artistic, tending to good and beauty (as for the Eleves), or it can be a mean towards the dominion over nature and living creatures (as for Sauron and Saruman). It is speaking of this latter, negative, use of the sub-creative will that Tolkien uses the term "magic":
"Both of these [the fear of death, a possessive desire for the world] (alone or together), will lead to the desire for Power, for making the will more quickly effective, - and so to the Machine (or Magic). By the last I intend all use of external plans or devices (apparatus) instead of the developement of the inherent inner powers or talents - or even the use of these talents with the corrupted motive of dominating: bulldozing the real world or coercing other wills. The Machine is our more obvious modern form, though more closely related to magic than is usually recognised." (Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, letter n. 131).
So, "magic", in the context above, is specifically referred only the actions of the Enemy and his allies and the realization of Elves are left without a definition:
"I have not used "magic" consistently, and indeed the Elven-Queen Galadriel is obliged to remonstrate with the Hobbits on their confused use of the word both for the devices and operations of the Enemy, and for those of the Elves. I have not, because there is not a word for the latter (since all human stories have suffered the same confusion)." (ibidem).
This second type of magic, concerning "the actions of the Elves" is what I have called in this essay "sub-creative will", i.e. an inherent capability of the Firstborn to act upon the Creation.
Given the above, we can conclude that, in broad sense, magic is the use of some external mean of inner talent to go against or otherwise influencing the natural course of things, in order to achieve a specific end. That’s why most of the achievement of the Elves, having Art as its purpose, are not properly defined as "magic".
This "going against or otherwise influencing the natural course of things" is always worse than leaving things as they are, but is not in itself an evil course of action. I’ll make an example, to clarify things: when Gandalf sets fire to the faggot on Caradhras, that is magic: the faggot would not have burned by itself (alteration of natural course of things, albeit a very limited one); also, burning the wood Gandalf brings some much needed warm to himself and his companions (achievement of one’s goal through the use of, in this case, inner talents and an external mean: Gandalf’s staff). Other actions of Gandalf fall into this category: the blocking of the eastern door of the Chamber of Mazarbul with a holding spell, the breaking of the bridge of Khazad-dûm, the disarming of Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli in The White Rider and the breaking of the staff of Saruman in The Voice of Saruman. All these actions are "magic", but they are accomplished for a good cause. The Phial of Galadriel can be considered a mildly "magical" object, in the sense that is expressly made to influence the course of things (aid Frodo in his Quest). So are the Palantìri, that can expand sight and permit to communicate at long distance.
But concerning the the Elves, their clearest act of "magic" is the making of the Rings of Power:

"The chief power (of all the Rings alike) was the preservation or slowing of decay (i.e. ‘change’ viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what was desired or loved or its semblance - this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor - thus approaching ‘magic’, a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination." (Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, letter n. 131).
Mere change as such is not represented as ‘evil’: it is the unfolding of the stori and to refuse this is of course against the design of God. But the Elvish weakness is in these terms naturally to regret the past and to become unwilling to face change (...). Hence they fell prey in a measure to Sauron’deceits: they desired some ‘power’ over things as they are (which is quite distinct from art), to make thir particular will to preservation effective: to arrest change and keep things always fresh and fair." (Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, letter n. 181).

Here we have all the elements of "magic" put together: the will to alter the natural course of things (slow the decaying of Nature), the use of inner talents (the skill of Celebrimbor and of the Noldor Gwaith-i-Mirdàin) and an external mean conceived and realized specifically for the achievement of the goal (the Rings of Power). This is real magic, in its negative acception: it is not yet "evil magic", but it gets as close as it can to being evil; and the fact that the Rings were made with the help of Sauron is not, of course, marginal. But even the Three Rings, not sullied by the Dark Lord, are dangerous "magical" artifacts, because the purpose and the means are the same of the other rings.
So, to sum things up to this point:
     1)Magic, as far as Tolkien defines it, is
the use of some external mean or inner talent to go against or otherwise influencing the natural course of things, in order to achieve a specific end;
     2) Though not evil in itself, it leads easily to lust for power over things and creatures wether to serve a ggod purpose or an evil one (i.e., the power corrupts its wielders; think of all that is said of the impossibility of using the One Ring against Sauron);
     3)In its most recognizable form it is "externalized" in an artifact: the One Ring, the Rings of Power, the Phial of Galadriel, the Palantìri,the Wizards’ staves.

The different aspects of Magic
Magic as defined above can take many forms, but first of all we can essentially divide it in two branches, according to the object of its action: it can have effects on the physical world (from inanimate objects to Nature itself) or it can affect the mind (e.g. delusions, appartitions, visions). It is Tolkien himself that introduces (or at least accepts and uses) this distinction, in the draft for a letter to Naomi Mitchison (Letters, letter n. 155). He sets the distinction between magia , producing real effects in the physical world and goeteia (a greek word for enchantment, delusion, deceit), producing effects on immagination (he, alas, does not put the matter in so many words, but the sense is clearly this, at least as I understand it).
Examples of goeteia can be cited from both camps: the Mirror of Galadriel (it is not plainly explained, but it seems very probable that Nenya, Galadriel’s Ring, has much to do with the power of the Mirror; also, Galadriel "breaths" on the water before letting Sam and Frodo look into the Mirror, so it seem that some sort of spell is necessary for the Mirror to work), the Girdle that prevents Sauron to see inside of Lórien, Gandalf’s "mental aid" to Frodo on Amon Hen, the Girdle of Melian, are all examples of a "good" use of goeteia. The voice of Saruman, the terrible fana of the Dark Lord, both in the Second and in the Third Age, his use of the Palantir to ensnare Saruman and deceive Denethor, the terrorizing aura of the Nazgûl, are examples of evil goeteia. (A clear instance is given in the First Age, when Sauron induces Gorlim to betray the hidings of Barahir and the Outlaws of Dorthonion devising a "phantom" of his wife Eilinel. Cfr. Silmarillion, chapt. 19 Of Beren an Lúthien).
Examples of magia I cited in the preceding paragraph: this is the most common and properly defined magic, as Tolkien intends it.
But more important still, we can can define it still further, according to its use in the service of evil or good purposes. And I will call the former kind of magic Sorcery for this is the magic Sauron (the Necromancer or the Sorcerer of Dol Guldur) and the corrupted wizard Saruman use; and I will call the latter use Wizardry, for this, in fact (and here, at last, we come right into the topic of this thread) is the magic the Wizards, that is to say the Istari, use.

Sauron the Deceiver, the fallen Maia, is verily, as Tolkien puts it, "the lord of magic and machines" (Letters of J.R.R.T., letter n. 131). His plots and moves are the fullest representation of the use of an inner talent (his great sub-creative power as Maia) to twist the destinies of Middle-Earth in order to achieve full dominion over the will and lives of its peoples, through the employment of the force of his armies, of his machines (the smithies of Barad-dûr, but also his siege weapons) and of the mightiest of the magical artifacts: the One Ring.
     It is, I think, important to stress the fact that "Evil" in Tolkien’s world is always closely associated with the skill and desire of "making" as opposed to "observing" or "enjoing". In the context of his mithology, Evil is always in some way connected to Aulë.
     Of the Vala himself he says that "Melkor was jealous of him, for Aulë was most like himself in thougth and in powers (...). Both, also, desired to make things of their own who should be new and unthought of by others, and delighted in the praise of their skill." (The Silmarillion, chapt. Valaquenta). And it is Aulë that, out of impatience (the "sin" that will damn Saruman), fashions the race of the Dwarves, causing the wrath of Eru.
The Dwarves, in their turn, are a people of smiths and craftsmen (again, the Machines) and are always greedy for gold and riches (another plain symbol of power), and for that they will often leave the path of Good.
     Sauron and Curumo (Saruman’s name in Valinor) were both originally Maiar of Aulë; the Noldor, finally, were beloved by the Vala and from his teachings derived most of the skill they will use to satisfy their never ending desire to fashion and reshape the substance of Arda. The same desire that, in its excesses, will cause their ruin: the possessive love of Feanor for the Silmarils, the wish of indipendence from the Valar of the Noldor in Valinor, the longing to revive and preserve a slowly fading Paradise of the Noldorin Gwaith-i-Mìrdain.

The Wizards (Istari) are indeed unique beings in the panorama of Middle-Earth: they are originally Maiar, but, as it has been already and very aptly said, in a limited state of being. Their "incarnation" momentarily changed their nature, making it more akin to that of Men, subject to pain, weariness, distraction and corruption. They are unlike the Elves, who use their sub-creative capacity mainly for artistic purposes and seem incapable to employ it in actively countering the Dark Lord (Galadriel keeps in the margins of the Quest and Legolas never shows any Istari-like magic): they are sent to accomplish a specifc end (oppose Sauron), but in this contest against Evil the Istari cannot not use their full "sub-creative power" as Maiar to achieve their goal (indeed, they had "forgotten" it) and had to oppose the Enemy, as it were, on his ground, using "magic" to change the course of things and react to his moves.
Their action even contemplates the use of magical artifacts: first of all their staves, which significantly are also the symbols of their Order, of their particualr nature; finally, of more symbolic importance, they use rings. Saruman tries to replicate the Rings of Power (when Gandalf meets him at Orthanc "he wore a ring on his finger" and in his boasting he calls himself "Saruman the Ring-maker"); but Gandalf himself wields Narya, the Ring of Fire, given him by Cìrdan and employs it to strengthen the hearts of the Free Peoples against the Enemy.
The path they tread is a dangerous one, a path, as has been said, that easily can lead them astray, causing them to "fall away in their purpose and do evil, forgetting the Good in the search for power to effect it." (unfinished Tales, chapt. The Istari).
It is what happens to Saruman, whose pride and impatience causes him to crave for Power and Domination, thus surrounding himself with all the panoplia of the fallen Wizard: "a lot of slaves and machines and things", in the very apt words of Merry (LotR, chapt. Flotsam and Jetsam). He became a Sorcerer, a petty imitation of Sauron himself.
Gandalf, instead, comes out as the true anti-Sauron, the opposite face of the same medal: "I was the Enemy of Sauron" he says when his taks is accomplished (LotR, chapt. The Steward and the King). And the Third Age, the Age of the Istari, can be called the Age of Magic: the good magic of the Messengers of the Valar (in the end of Gandalf alone) against the evil magic of Sauron.

(Well, I will stopo here, Of course all the above is MY interpretation of Tolkien’s words and works and, although I tried to be as faithful as possible to his (rarely) expressed thought in this matters, we must not look for complete consistency of the above with all the aspects of magic in Middle-Earth (men’s magic is, for example, a problem, and I plan to tackle it in a future post) of even complete consistency of Tolkien works as a whole. It took me a lot of time and thinking to devise all this: I hope I made my point clear and that the White Council will not break my staff for trying to drown my fellow Istaris in a flood of tiresome words!)"

Tenharien Calmcacil 11/Dec/2006 at 12:01 PM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2766 Posts: 1583 Joined: 25/Aug/2008
Sweet Christmas thats a lot of great information. Well that sure was what I was looking for. Thank you very much. Though i have to say i am stilla  little confused on the magic of elves, but i do understand it a little bit better. And of Gandalfs ring as well. I would like to know what the other rings do, but i shall research a bit.
halfir 11/Dec/2006 at 02:24 PM
Emeritus Points: 46547 Posts: 43664 Joined: 10/Mar/2002

Tenharien: Regarding Gandalf’s Ring, you might find this information helpful.



It is excerpted from one of my many posts in the Rings of Power threads, the best explanation of the Rings we have on the Plaza- now sadly archived and infrequently visited. There are, in all , five threads, this exceprt is taken from thread 3:


The Rings of Power-3



Maiarian man posted:

"Upon arrival in ME, Cirdan gave Gandalf the ring of Fire, Narya, accounting gandalf as the wisest of the istari. With it, Cirdan predicted that Gandalf could "rekindle the hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill." ("Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age").

I want, in this post, to dwell on the theme of The Ring of Fire, Narya , The Kindler - and argue that through an over-concentration on Gandalf per se we miss the very important role that Narya played in helping Gandalf fulfil his mission.

Maiarian man has already given examples of Narya’s role,but I want to explore further the missionof the Istari, and in particular Gandalf, and the very active role I believe Narya played in the unfolding saga of ME in the Third Age.

In Unfinished Tales (History of Galadriel and Celeborn) we learn that Narya, The Ring of Fire, was one of the two great Rings of Power that Celebrimbor gave to Gil-Galad. In turn, Gil-Galad gave Narya to Cirdan, Lord of the Havens.

Cirdan, as Guardian of the Ring of Fire, does not appear to have used it in any proactive way after the fall of Sauron in the Battle of the Last Alliance, whereas, as maiarian man has shown, Vilya and Nenya, under the respective jurisdiction of Galadriel and Elrond were in active use:

"Yet after the fall of Sauron, their powers were ever at work, and where they abode there mirth also dwelt and all things were unstained by the griefs of time" (The Silmarillion "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age").

Indeed, until Cirdan gave Narya to Gandalf, I cannot find any specific reference to its being used by him for the particular reasons that it was made. His ’guardianship’ seems to have been just that. Not until the Istari, and Gandalf in particular, arrive in ME, does Narya appear to be actively used.

The Istari were sent by the Valar to:

""advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt." (Unfinished Tales - The Istari)

And The Silmarillion tells us that:

"..they were messengers sent by the Lords of the West  to contest the popwer of Sauron, if he should rise again, and to move Elves and Men and all living things of good will to valiant deeds." (Of the Rings of Power) (My bold emphasis).

And Cirdan discerned that of all the Istari  Gandalf was the greatest spirit and the wisest and gave him Narya, The Ring of Fire, saying:

"It was entrusted to me only to keep secret, and here upon the West-shores it is idle...but I deem that in days ere long to come it should be in nobler hands than mine, that may wield it for the kindling of all hearts to courage." (Unfinished Tales - The Istari) (My bold emphasis)

And The Silmarillion enlarges on this by telling us:

"For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill." (Of The Rings of Power) (My bold emphasis).

And Gandalf used Narya to combat the evils of Sauron:

"Warm and eager was his spirit (and it was enhanced by the ring Narya), for he was the Enemy of Sauron , opposing the fire that devours and wastes with the fire that kindles, and succours in wanhope and distress.." (Unfinished Tales  - The Istari) (My bold emphasis)

And in the Letters, Tolkien re-emphasizes these points:

Letter # 144: "...the {Istari’s} proper function, maintained by Gandalf, and perverted by Saruman, was to encourage and bring out the native powers of the Enemies of Sauron." (My bold emphasis).

Letter # 156 "... to train, advise, instruct, arouse the hearts and minds of those threatened by Sauron to a resistance with their own strength." (My bold emphasis)

And the final, single line, that says it all:

Letter # 301: "Gandalf, bearer of the Ring of Fire, the Kindler." (My bold emphasis)

W. B. Yeats, the great Irish poet wrote :"How can we tell the Dancer from the Dance?" We might well ask, "How can we tell Gandalf from Narya?" Bonded to the Ring, in a relationship like that with his great steed Shadowfax, Gandalf used the Ring of Fire in : "opposing the fire that devours and wastes with the fire that kindles, and succours in wanhope and distress.." and to: "rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill."

The Kindler, wrought by Celebrimbor, gifted by Gil-Galad, guarded by Cirdan, wielded by Gandalf   "for the kindling of all hearts to courage," against the might and corruption of Sauron in the Third Age of ME."



Kaulargorn 15/Dec/2006 at 12:09 PM
Messenger of Minas Tirith Points: 938 Posts: 149 Joined: 30/May/2006

The acts of the Blue Wizzards remains a mystery. It is asuumed that they made their own cults and didn’t succeed in their purpose of being sent, to help mankind against Sauron.As for magical people, apart from the lord of nazgul I recall of Beorn and their descendants

Tenharien Calmcacil 17/Dec/2006 at 02:11 PM
Scribe of Minas Tirith Points: 2766 Posts: 1583 Joined: 25/Aug/2008
Do you think there will be any telling of the Blue wizards in the Children of Hurin coming out this spring? I would have liked to hear about them. If nto its all good. Its not like you can always here every side and read about every character mentioned. That would eb cool, but its asking too much.
Vugar 17/Dec/2006 at 03:50 PM
Chieftain of Mordor Points: 8170 Posts: 5398 Joined: 01/Jun/2004

Kaulargorn, In October of 1958 Tolkien did fear that the Ithryn Luin had failed and were the founders of secret cults and ’magic’ traditions, but Tolkien later provided another history for these characters.  The links provided by halfir above would probably interest you; but I would also direct you to the Plaza’s own library, and the page that deals with the Blue Wizards.

Kaulargorn 17/Dec/2006 at 04:01 PM
Messenger of Minas Tirith Points: 938 Posts: 149 Joined: 30/May/2006
Thanks Achaius. I didn’t know that they are now considered as having played such an important role in middle Earth’s history. I had heard very little about them and the most was bad reffering to their acts in surving the purpose of good but the plaza’s library is great
halfir 17/Dec/2006 at 04:20 PM
Emeritus Points: 46547 Posts: 43664 Joined: 10/Mar/2002

The links provided by halfir above would probably interest you

Something New About Somethings Blue


They were the trail-blazing threads on the Plaza and the Web that led to significant revisions in the earlier - and incomplete -views on the Blue Wizards. The Library entry, excellent as it is ,is very much ex post facto those threads.X(

Durin of Moria 17/Dec/2006 at 06:32 PM
Scribe of Erebor Points: 467 Posts: 260 Joined: 24/Mar/2006

There are many wizards sent from Aman to Middle-Earth but the chief were five, Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and two blue wizards. These chief wizards came to the North-West of Middle-Earth, for at that place Sauron were most active, and the other wizards went further south and east. The two blue wizards went into the east with Saruman and passed out of knowledge but Saruman came back into the west and live in Isengard. Gandalf was always wandering and Radagast lived at the border of Mirkwood. Only Saruman and Gandalf participate in the War of the Ring.

Qtpie 17/Dec/2006 at 07:48 PM
Commander of Mordor Points: 22280 Posts: 12880 Joined: 17/Nov/2005
Well Radagast played some minor roles during the War of the Ring, along with Gandalf and Saruman. Radagast was used as a messenger by Saruman and unwittingly used by Saruman to get Gandalf to go to Orthanc. He was also instrumental in gathering news of the Enemy for he had a great friendship with the Eagles and birds. You might also say that he had a hand in rescuing Gandalf from Orthanc.

’For Radagast knew no reason why he should not do as I asked; and he rode away towards Mirkwood where he had many friends of old. And the Eagles of the Mountains went far and wide, and they saw many things: the gathering of wolves and the mustering of Orcs; and the Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands; and they heard news of the escape of Gollum. And they sent a messenger to bring these tidings to me.’ FoTR: The Council of Elrond