Ent wives

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Dor-lómin 22/Dec/2006 at 12:07 AM
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By any chance, would  Fangorn forrest be like the old forrest that Tom bombadil lived in. Because tree beard said that they lost the ent wives, so i thought that there could be ent wives in the old forrest, just a thought.

please can somone give me some sort of answer/info.

Daywalker 22/Dec/2006 at 04:28 AM
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Dor-lómin - Old Forest and Fangorn Forest were once same forest but in progress of time, those two got apart. Fangorn Forest and neither does Old Forest has entwives. Entwives had their ’gardens’ on eastern side of Anduin which is now called Brown Lands< happened because of Sauron and that caused entwives to flee and after that they were lost. I dont have my books with me now so i can’t give any quotes but i’m sure that someone will provide more exact information.
Vugar 22/Dec/2006 at 10:06 AM
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"’Entwives?’ said Pippin. ’Are they like you at all?’
’Yes, hm, well no: I do not really know now,’ said Treebeard thoughtfully. ’But they would like your country, so I just wondered.’" (Treebeard, TTT)

But I do not think the Old Forest would be the ideal location for the Entwives, who rather "gave their minds to the lesser trees, and to the meads in the sunshine beyond the feet of the forests...." (Ibid)  They desired order and control, and a forest does not so easily bow to such whims.  In their gardens they could have their sense of ’peace’ - which bordered on stagnation, I think.

Tolkien did offer his thoughts in two letters dating from 1954 and 1972 respectively:

"I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429-3441) when Sauron pursued a scorched earth policy and burned their land against the advance of the Allies down the Anduin (vol. II p. 79 refers to it). They survived only in the ’agriculture’ transmitted to Men (and Hobbits). Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metal-workers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult – unless experience of industrialized and militarized agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don’t know." (Letter #144, Letters of Tolkien)

"As for the Entwives: I do not know...But I think in Vol. II pp. 80-81 it is plain that there would be for Ents no re-union in ’history’ — but Ents and their wives being rational creatures would find some ’earthly paradise’ until the end of this world: beyond which the wisdom neither of Elves nor Ents could see. Though maybe they shared the hope of Aragorn that they were ’not bound for ever to the circles of the world and beyond them is more than memory.’...." (Letter #338, Letters of Tolkien)

To make a comparison between Fangorn Forest and the Old Forest, I would think that the former was the more dangerous of the two.  The trees of the Old Forest seem to be more belligerent than the Ents and Huorns of Fangorn, but ultimately less dangerous.

"They do say the trees do actually move, and can surround strangers and hem them in. In fact long ago they attacked the Hedge: they came and planted themselves right by it, and leaned over it. But the hobbits came and cut down hundreds of trees, and made a great bonfire in the Forest, and burned all the ground in a long strip east of the Hedge. After that the trees gave up the attack, but they became very unfriendly." (The Old Forest, FotR)

Given that hundreds of those trees were cut down by hobbits with axes, I doubt they could slay orcs or destroy a curtain wall.  They were apparently "limb-lithe" and mobile, but not as aware or active as the Huorns of Fangorn.

Narmaethor 22/Dec/2006 at 10:48 AM
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Yes, I myself have quite wandered if treebeard ever found himself a nice entwife to settle down with and have little entlings. do you think baby ents would be cute?
Arvellas 22/Dec/2006 at 01:20 PM
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Narmaethor-I doubt that Treebeard ever found himself an Entwife--I don’t think that any of the Ents would, considering that the Entwives seem to have disappeared off the face of the known world.  it’s been pretty much proven in countless threads that the Entwives are most likely all dead, and that there are none in the Shire, so there would be nowhere that we know of for an Ent to even begin his search.
Ankala Teaweed 22/Dec/2006 at 03:21 PM
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Narma, you should re-read the Fangorn section. He had indeed had a special Entwife girlfriend; it is obvious from his dialog with the hobbits. And I think there is no question that some of the Ents had relationships with some of the Entwives, but it is very clear that the genders had early on geographically separated. It is very clear this happened due to their choices in the love of which growing things. The Entwives wanted to have their gardens; the Ents seem more to be roaming free through the forests, herding their trees.
Narmaethor 22/Dec/2006 at 03:59 PM
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Ann-I know treebeard did have agirlfriend, Fimbrethil if I am not mistaken, but I was just wandering if they ever found the entwives again after they were lost.

Ankala Teaweed 22/Dec/2006 at 04:05 PM
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No. They did not.
Arandorion 23/Dec/2006 at 03:23 AM
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Didn’t it say in the book that after all was lost (or something like that) that they would come together again. So after something happend that destroyed all the forest the male ents and the entwives would get back together right? I’ll have to re-read the section of Treabeard in TTT.
Vugar 23/Dec/2006 at 07:51 AM
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ENT.        "When Winter comes, the winter wild that hill and wood shall slay;
                 When trees shall fall and starless night devour the sunless day;
                 When wind is in the deadly East, then in the bitter rain
                 I’ll look for thee, and call to thee; I’ll come to thee again!

ENTWIFE. When Winter comes, and singing ends; when darkness falls at last;
                 When broken is the barren bough, and light and labour past;
                 I’ll look for thee, and wait for thee, until we meet again:
                 Together we will take the road beneath the bitter rain!
BOTH.     Together we will take the road that leads into the West,
                 And far away will find a land where both our hearts may rest.’"

Is that what you refer to, Arandorion?  Perhaps it is not, but if so I would say the song expresses the hope that the Ents and Entwives would reunite.  The song is referred to by Tolkien in one of his letters from 1972:

"As for the Entwives: I do not know...But I think in Vol. II pp. 80-81 (the reference) it is plain that there would be for Ents no re-union in ’history’ — but Ents and their wives being rational creatures would find some ’earthly paradise’ until the end of this world: beyond which the wisdom neither of Elves nor Ents could see. Though maybe they shared the hope of Aragorn that they were ’not bound for ever to the circles of the world and beyond them is more than memory.’...." (Letter #338, Letters of Tolkien)

This reunion of the Ents and Entwives in an ’earthy paradise’ outside ’history’ seems to suggest a sojourn within Aman and probably a return to incarnate existence in Aman much like the Elves.  But then the final lines suggest the Ents also cherised the hope that they shared an ultimate fate similar to Men, and that they were not bound to the world and would continue to exist beyond its end.

Arandorion 26/Dec/2006 at 01:59 PM
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That is what i ment Achaius thank you for fortifeing it with some nice quotes. I don’t always have the book so I can’t always quote! Now for an other thing. Do you think that the Ents have there one kind of Undying Lands in wich the Entmales and the Entwives would reunite at the end of all times?
Afteral they are the most acient living things on ME. I for one think that they might just have they’re own safe haven. Is there any information on that?
First Age 26/Dec/2006 at 04:18 PM
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There is a topic in basic lore that asks if the ents would go to Valinor. However, there are many arguements against this theory, the main one being that they wouldn’t want to go. The ents would remain in ME with the forests until there was no reason to dwell in ME. 

Arandorion 27/Dec/2006 at 02:11 AM
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But my question is not if they would go too Valinor. My question is if they have they’re own kind of Valinor. They’re ... Eden if you must. Too wich they could fled if there wasn’t any reason too dwell in ME.
First Age 27/Dec/2006 at 07:52 AM
Master of Isengard Points: 263 Posts: 38 Joined: 08/Nov/2006

I would say no. Definately not. Why would they merit their ’own’ Valinor? I suppose it would be possible for them to go to Valinor and dwell in forests there but they would not have their own lands.

Arandorion 27/Dec/2006 at 01:39 PM
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Oh ok ... I guess that the thought of an Ent eden might sound stupid. But it also sounds pretty idyllic so I thought i’d ask. But the fact that they could go too Valinor satifies me Thanks for the info!