Sauron:why did he need the Ring?

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Mithrandír 23/Dec/2006 at 01:01 PM
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Hasn’t anyone come across this before? why does Sauron need the Ring on his finger so much if he cannot turn invisible with it?( i dont think he can, as it said in the Books: Sauron wrestled with Gil-Gilad and Elendiland he killed them both. That is saying that he did not turn invisible and kill them without them knowing. So what power does the Ring give Sauron, if not the power of invsibility?
Alcarináro 23/Dec/2006 at 01:08 PM
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Unlike the Hobbits, Sauron can use the power of the Ring to the utmost. He made it, after all. Its purpose was not to confer invisibility, but to increase his own power (one could say that the power he used to create it multiplied many-fold and was returned to him when he had it [but also that when he did not have it he did not ’lose’ the power he had invested in it]) and to subjugate the bearers of the other Rings (hence it being called the Ruling Ring).
elvenpath 23/Dec/2006 at 01:09 PM
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Nan-Tathren, Sauron didn’t make the Ring to be able to become invisible. The Ring was more powerful... Frodo didn’t have the ability to make it do something else, because his inherited power was not much. The more powerful the wielder, the more the Ring could provide to him.

The Ring was used to enhance his power, his overall Maia power:

While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced(Letter#131)

One who wishes power above all, does whatever to get some more.

elvenpath 23/Dec/2006 at 01:10 PM
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sorry, simul
Mithrandír 23/Dec/2006 at 02:29 PM
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Nan-Tathren, Sauron didn’t make the Ring to be able to become invisible.
i didn’t say he did, elvenpath.
thanks guys.
SigilMor 24/Dec/2006 at 02:13 PM
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Sauron can tap in to all the power of the ring, because it was he who created it, and he had enough power to use it and control it. Plus,  he used it to take control of the other rings ( i think ) and caused the nine to become nazgul, etc. But the elves realized what he was doing and took off their rings, so Sauron didn’t get to them.
Steophan 24/Dec/2006 at 02:24 PM
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The Nine remain Nazgul for all the long period that Sauron is without the One Ring - he does not need to possess it to control them, merely to possess the nine rings.  The seven Dwarven rings did not give Sauron any control over the Dwarves.  Had he taken the Ring, his power would have multiplied and the strenght of his servants would have increased, the converse of what happened when the Ring was destroyed.  Invisibility, in the grand scheme of things, is a minor power of the Ring.

elvenboy20 25/Dec/2006 at 10:08 AM
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its his power source its the most powerful ring in all of middle earth and he is the ruler and since the ring has grown on him and being evil he needs it to live thats why it wants to go back to him so he he lives and the ring was powerful until sauron died now its not as powerful if its not with its master
Thaliondae Suchi-ru 25/Dec/2006 at 03:36 PM
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Sauron used a lot of his power and strength and put them into the ring, and yes this did weaken him soncsiderably when they were seperated but when they were united Saurons might was beyond many, it did not just take him to the level he had before he made the ring but it surpassed that level. whereas all the power was not used when men or hobbits used it but they did become invisible.
Alcarináro 25/Dec/2006 at 04:39 PM
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Not actually true, Jack Frost.

he had been obliged to let a great part of his own inherent power (a frequent and very significant motive in myth and fairy-story) pass into the One Ring. While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in ’rapport’ with himself: he was not ’diminished’.’
   -Letter 131

Sauron did not need to have the Ring in order to keep the power that he invested in it. He was not weakened without it.
Kalevala 26/Dec/2006 at 05:19 AM
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I am probably going to repeat some things that have already been said but indeed Sauron poured all of his cruaulty, his malice into the one ring, so it is kind of like if his life depended on this one ring. An illustration of this is when Isildur got off the ring of Sauron’s hand at the end of the last battle, he lost all physical form but to be completly destroyed the ring had to be destroyed. This leads to another question how did Sauron recover, communiquate and recreate Orcs?

Alcarináro 26/Dec/2006 at 07:09 AM
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Kalevala, Sauron’s life would not have been tied to the fate of the Ring until he first died after he made it. For the Ring, and the power he invested in it, was what allowed him to return. Sauron did not die because the Ring was cut from his hand. The Ring was cut from his hand because he was dying and unable to fight back. He also had a physical form in the Third Age, and, like all living thinking things, could never be destroyed completely: the destruction of the Ring simply reduced him in power to such an extent that he would never be able to reform another physical body.
Orcs breed by themselves.
Boromir88 26/Dec/2006 at 07:16 AM
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kalevala, after Isildur cut of Sauron’s finger, he did lose his form, however it was only temporarily and he started taking shape sometime in the T.A. 2060 (about 60 years before the Fellowship is created).  There are countless arguments and things to show that Sauron did have a physical form (and it wasn’t a giant eyeball) during the War of the Ring (and decades before)...this should do it, but if you still aren’t convinced tell me:

’It was because of this preoccupation with The Children of God that the spirits so often took the form and likeness of the Children, especially after their appearance. It was thus that Sauron appeared in this shape. It is mythologically supposed that when this shape was ’real’, that is a physical actuality in the physical world and not a vision transferred from mind to mind it took some time to build up. It was then destructible like other physical organism. But that of course did not destroy the spirit, nor dismiss it from the world to which it was bound until the end. After the battle with Gilgalad and Elendil, Sauron took a long while time to re-build, longer than he had done after the Downfall of Numenor. (I suppose because each building -up used up some of the inherent energy of the spirit, which might be called the ’will’ or the effective link between the indestructible mind and being and the realization of its imagination).~Letter 200
Sauron was able to take a physical form (as were all the spirits of Eru if they wanted to) and have a physical presence on the world.  This is what Sauron did, and it’s noted that even after the battle with Gil-galad and Elendil, Sauron rebuilds (it just takes him longer than before)...nevertheless, he rebuilds into another body.  However he cannot build his body with another finger (the one that got cut off by Isildur), and as noted by Gollum:
..’’It was Isildur cut off the finger of the Enemy.’
’Yes, He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough.’

Wilibald Bumble 27/Dec/2006 at 08:47 AM
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He tortured Celebrimbor and made the one ring in Secret when his armies invaded Eraidor. He put all his malice into it and his spirit itself.
ArgentKnight 28/Dec/2006 at 01:56 AM
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Where the heck did the big eyeball idea come from anyway? I mean, if Sauron put his spirit, his self if you will, into the One Ring, then why did he have a seperate self that had a body? Like, why was his consciousness not carried around inside the One Ring or something. In the books Gandalf says that the Ring calls to Sauron. So does it have a personality or it Sauron schizophrenic?
elvenpath 28/Dec/2006 at 02:07 AM
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Sauron put part of his power and spirit into the Ring, not all of it, this is why he could exist without the Ring -he externalized part of his power in order to increase it

"To achieve this {the controlling power of the One Ring} he had been obliged to let a great part of his own inherent power (a frequent and very significant motive in myth and fairy story) pass into the One Ring. While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced." (letter#131)

Alcarináro 28/Dec/2006 at 08:16 AM
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Now where does it say that Sauron put his spirit, his self, into the Ring? Nowhere. It says he put his inherent power into the Ring. His spirit, like all spirits, are indissolute. He could not have siphoned a bit of it off into the Ring. And therefore, he did not siphon a bit of it off into the Ring.
Qtpie 28/Dec/2006 at 05:52 PM
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ArgentKnight: Welcome to the lore fora! The ’eye’ idea came from PJ and is a misconception, for there was no eyeball sitting atop of Barad-dur. Sauron had a corporeal form, and the eye just repesents his malice.

’There now he brooded in the dark, until he had wrought for himself a new shape; and it was terrible, for his fair semblance had departed for ever when he was cast into the abyss at the drowning of Numenor. He took up again the great Ring and clothed himself in power; and the malice of the Eye of Sauron few even of the great among the Elves and Men could endure. Silmarillion: Of the Third Age and the Rings of Power

elvenpath 28/Dec/2006 at 11:29 PM
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Elenhir,  I don’t know what I was thinking of when I added the word spirit...
Telmar 30/Dec/2006 at 04:32 AM
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The invisibility was a side effect, (as it’s been said already Sauron put a great deal of his power into the One, and he made it for himself - not for mortals, it was quite a feat for Smeagol, Bilbo and Frodo to wield it at all). A being of power would have been able to wear it without disappearing, as Tom Bombadil did.

 It was made as the Ruling Ring as the rhyme goes - "One Ring to rule them, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them"


WyteWolf 01/Jan/2007 at 02:03 PM
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Sauron needed the One ring back as it was not only forged By Him but it was also imbued with most of his Magical power so as to give it dominion over the other rings of power.hence the lines of the poem"one ring to rule them all one ring to find them one ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them". He created the One ring with only a purpose in mind to use it and by extension the other rings to take control of all of middle earth.the reason the ring only made Gollum,Bilbo, Frodo and Sam invisible was that it only enhanced their own natural abilities of stealth.and it was working towards returning to its master...hence why and how it fell from Isildur’s hand when he was fleaing from the orcs in the first age.