So you want to learn Elvish?

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Thorsten 16/Dec/2004 at 08:34 AM
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So you want to learn Elvish?

(a little bit of philosophy)

So, you made up your mind to learn Elvish? I absolutely love the Elvish languages, so I can understand that perfectly, and I wish you plenty of joy!

But there’s a question which you might want to ask yourself early on - and maybe later as well - what do you mean by ’learning’?

Do you wish to speak the language, write Elvish poetry and read Elvish stories, use it in roleplaying games and write Elvish letters to your friends? Because all that is actually possible - well, kind of, and that’s why I am asking the question. Because all these things require a kind of final form of Elvish, they assume that Tolkien at some point finished Sindarin or Quenya and that this finished language can then be used.

But that is not how Tolkien ever thought about the languages. So, learning Tolkien’s thoughts about the languages is a vastly different task than learning to ’speak’ one of the languages.

Tolkien never viewed his creations as finished - he was always revising and altering things - even for published things (which he couldn’t really alter) he re-invented the underlying explanation - a good example is Gil-Galad - in Letters:279 he states

This variation g/k is not to be confused with the grammatical change or k, c > g in Grey-elven, seen in the initials of words in composition or after closely connected particles (like the article). So Gil-galad ’star-light’. .

But in fact, in Letter 374 a completely different explanation is brought forward:

In S. this absence of mutation is maintained (a) in compounds and (b) when a noun is actually virtually an adjective, as in Gil-galad Star (of) brilliance.

So, while he argues of galad being a lenited form and translates as ’star-light’ in his first explanation, he insists that it is unlenited in the second one and means ’Star of brilliance’. My favourite example involves the Quenya word for ’yes/no’. Bill Welden quotes two sources in his essay ’Negation in Quenya’ (VT42:32). In a 1960 essay, Tolkien had ’yes’ - in a 1970 essay ’no’.

Vinyar Tengwar 43 features 6 different versions of the Lord’s Prayer in Quenya which allow to trace how Tolkien, not satisfied with the previous versions, altered features of grammar and vocabulary to arrive at a version that would appeal more to him - till he decided to rewrite that one as well. Tolkien’s own dictionaries usually contain several layers of entries - early pencilled ones, crossed out, replaced by ink entries, at times crossed out again and re-written, reflecting the constant alteration of the languages in vocabulary and derivation.

Why am I telling all this to you? Because, creating a speakable Sindarin or Quenya is not only about filling in the gaps with clever reconstructions - it involves at times heavy editorial decisions and throwing out Tolkien-made material on the basis of personal preferences.

You see, there’s no way to have a language in which can be both ’yes’ and ’no’ - so if you want to speak Quenya, you have to decide for one of them. But there’s no good guideline of doing so - should we go with Tolkien’s latest decisions? Then means ’no’ in Quenya, but then, a lot of the material in LOTR gets pretty awkward interpretations, as Tolkien’s late ideas of the grammar are quite different from his ideas by the time he wrote Namárië. Or should we go with what’s closest to LOTR? Then is ’yes’ - but we know that Tolkien eventually dismissed that idea. So in the end, it boils down to an editor’s choice which one to use.

I have written both a Sindarin and a Quenya course and hence made quite a few editorial decisions of that kind, just to offer an easier-to-learn version for beginners. That is, I feel, okay, because I clearly say so in the course and try to keep is as close as possible to Tolkien’s ideas and only try to straighten out contradictions.

But you see, the problems start when you have leaned Sindarin from my or Helge Fauskanger’s course and try to explain it to someone else. If you’re not careful, that what Tolkien actually wrote gets lost in the process. Because there’s something which may be called truth by repetition.

To give an example: Helge Fauskanger writes in Sindarin, the Noble Tongue:

In Sindarin, adjectives (including participles) following the noun they describe are usually lenited. (...) There are, however, quite a few attested cases where soft mutation fails to take place in such combination. (...) I would advise people writing in Sindarin to let adjectives lenit in this position, though, since this seems to be the main rule.

He actually phrases it carefully and mentiones exceptions. However, people quoting from him usually simplify the statement into Adjectives in Sindarin follow the noun and are lenited. (that’s what I leaned when I started out). This has been repeated so frequently that you can frequently find people pointing out that leaving the adjective unlenited is wrong.

Now, if you turn to the actual evidence, I could find 8 examples without lenition, 9 examples with lenition, 1 example with nasal mutation and 10 examples where we can’t tell (see http://www.phy.duke.edu/~trenk/elvish/mutations.html ) So in fact, being the main rule is based on just a small 9:8 advantage.

The story gets even more strange if you consider adverbs directly trailing verbs. Helge never wrote about them being lenited - so most people assume they are unlenited or lenited after an imperative. But if you look at the actual evidence, we find two clear lenitions, two clear non-lenitions and three where we don’t know. That is about the same ratio as for adjective lenition, and there’s no reason to assume that the rules for adverbs would be any different - and yet, based on frequent repetition, the most widespread ’truth’ is that trailing adjectives are lenited whereas trailing adverbs are not. But as you can verify yourself, there’s little factual basis for both statements. At least, Tolkien did not follow these rules himself.

Or, to turn to a different direction. You may be tempted to explain to someone that the 2nd person verb ending in Sindarin is -ch. I certainly wrote so in my Sindarin course. You may even be aware of the evidence (if you’ve studied Ardalambion) where Helge quotes:

Arphent Rían Tuorna, Man agorech?, probably meaning *"And Rían said to Tuor, What did you do?"

Now, Helge phrases this very carefully again, and the following truth by repetition is only partially his fault. But truth is - the sentence is not translated anywhere. If you think it through - Tuor was a newborn while Rían was still alive - what could he possibly have done? Soiled his blankets? Hardly an incident Tolkien would write about. In fact, the ’canonical’ interpretation makes little sense. David Salo (who originally brought it forward) argued to save it that Tolkien may have meant a different Rían and Tuor. Well - while names at times occur again, it is unlikely here. Carl Hostetter (who has access to the original manuscript) told in a dicusssion on i lam arth:

David is presenting the facts selectively here, neglecting to mention that the sentence he saw occurs in a context -- sc., a "cover sheet" as it were for Tolkien’s continued work on the Narn -- and that the bit of dialogue it is part of continues after it; and thus it is not simply a random, isolated jotting by Tolkien having no connection to the well-known characters of his legendarium , and the question having no discernible connection to the same.

So, the actual evidence from the sentence that -ch means ’you’ in that sentence is close to none. We are left with three bits of actual evidence: 1) a table of Noldorin pronoun forms showing -g and -ch as 2nd person endings (unpublished, mentioned in various discussions) 2) a table of Noldorin pronouns showing -ch as 1st person plural ending (unpublished, mentioned in various discussions) and 3) the apparent similarity of the Sindarin and the Quenya pronomial system, that if it holds permits to argue for -ch as a 2nd person ending (see http://www.phy.duke.edu/~trenk/elvish/pron_rek.html for such an attempt).

I hope you see now what’s wrong with telling someone that -ch is the 2nd person ending in Sindarin. In fact, even telling someone that I think -ch is the 2nd person ending in Sindarin (and I did write so in my course) is not entirely correct - because what I really think is that at some point Tolkien had in mind -g as a 2nd person sg. familiar and -ch as 2nd person pl. familiar and -l as 2nd person formal ending - and that he revised all that repeatedly. So, the actual reason that I recommend -ch in my course is that the whole affair is a terrible mess, that it is plausible enough and that a lot of people recognize it - so no need to throw in my slightly more complicated views if I am not sure of them anyway.

And I hope you can understand that I feel really uncomfortable whenever I see someone telling that -ch is the 2nd person ending in Sindarin just because I say so (or because Helge says so for that matter) - because it completely obscures what Tolkien has to say in that matter.

You see, the next difficulty when one ’standardizes’ Sindarin is the following - I have a different idea about what is most likely correct than Ryszard Derdzinski or Helge Fauskanger - and for me it’s easy to read their texts, because I know what Tolkien has written and what other possible conclusions can be drawn of that (because I rejected those when I made my editorial decisions - but I never forgot them) - but if you know Sindarin only from one secondary source you may wonder a lot about some unfamiliar grammar. So - eventually it pays off to know different interpretations even if you only want to use the language. (But here’s a caveat - even if there are often different possible interpretations that does not imply ’anything goes’ - we may often not know what is right, but we can boil it down to two or three possibilities, and anything else is still wrong).

What’s the point of all this? I would like to ask you to be extremely careful how you present it when you’re explaining Elvish to someone if you only know secondary sources yourself. In making statements like that is such and such you’re very often twisting the truth in terms of what Tolkien actually had in mind - even if you have the best intentions of helping someone - just keep that distinction by arguing that Helge thinks that... and you’re in much better shape, or throw in an occasional I think.... Look into what Tolkien has to say - and you’re fine. But ultimately, you’re not in a position to explain how Elvish grammar is unless you’ve studied Tolkien himself.

Just using the languages for fanfic is fine as well, and you can have a lot of fun doing so (I certainly had...) - and you don’t have to study all the messy details and clashing interpretations for doing that. But if you really want to understand what Tolkien’s thoughts are and how he viewed the Elvish grammar - then I’m afraid a secondary source will never be enough, and that is a lot more work.

So - it’s up to you what you mean by learning Elvish - some people are happy just using the languages, others are content just to study them on a formal level without ever writing a bit of text - I have done and enjoyed both. But whatever you do, have fun (it’s a hobby after all) and recognize the limits (I guess none of us really wants to spread all these false things).
Neriath 16/Dec/2004 at 12:55 PM
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You are very precise in your philosophy.  I agree.  I merely wish to learn Sindarin for these reasons:

1) I am a dedicated fan 2) I get bored of regular Engligh and desire change 3) You can say things like " Mitho orch!!" to enemies without getting in trouble 4) It is absolutely beautiful and I love it

No one at my school or circle can read or speak either Quenya or Sindarin.  I do it merely for the pleasure of learning something beautiful.  There is a deeper, psychological reason, I am sure, but I cannot grasp it at this moment, although it does not matter really.  Thank you for your post, at any rate.

Glorfindel_lotr 16/Dec/2004 at 08:07 PM
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Well, i have always loved strange languages and plan on making one my self but i find it difficult to find a way to learn them as they do not really have books on made up languages. Overall i want to learn the simplest form i possibly can. I do not even know the names of many languages.

Lindissë 16/Dec/2004 at 09:35 PM
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What can I say?  Of course I want to learn Elvish... I’m language obsessed.

I know that there’s no finalised version of Quenya or Sindarin.  I’ve run into that problem before, but it doesn’t really bother me.  I see where you’re coming from, but I don’t understand why you need a finalised version of the language to be able to write in it.  I’ve been perfectly content to simply cobble together words when I have to...

When you think about it, there’s no finalised version of any language... Look at the differences between the way English is spoken in several different countries and then try to claim that it hasn’t been changing.

Finally... you’ve been commenting mostly on Sindarin.  Presently I’m working on Quenya, and have heard that it is the most "complete" of Tolkien’s languages.  Do all the problems that you mentioned occur in Quenya as well, or is it less troublesome?

Thorsten 17/Dec/2004 at 10:28 AM
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Mind_Master, Darkan, did you really read this thread?

I am not searching for Elvish websites (btw. I have written some of the content at sindarin.de or ambar-eldaron.com for that matter, so I know it pretty well), I was trying to point to a conceptual problem in making Elvish a ’speakable’ language - and I honestly fail to see how your posts are connected to this idea.

Nandellë, yes, Quenya has the same share of changed interpretations. There is more Tolkien-written material about Quenya, which in a sense means we have more information but also more contradictions - Quenya requires less reconstruction to fill in the gaps, though, so at the moment it is better understood.

> When you think about it, there’s no finalised version of any language... Look at the differences between the way English is spoken in several different countries and then try to claim that it hasn’t been changing.

Well - usually the meaning of ’yes’ or ’we’ doesn’t change in English - and it does in Elvish ;-)
rufio 17/Dec/2004 at 02:37 PM
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I never really learned Sindarin at all, but as I learned Quenya initially from reading the course on Ardalambion and only later looked at other sources where things were simplified a little more, I did kind of wonder about this kind of thing. But I learned Tolkien’s languages more for the conlanging aspect than for the purpose of writing poetry or roleplaying, so I though Helge Fauskanger’s course was more interesting.

As a point of reference though, natlangs evolve in sort of similar ways. I mean, yes doesn’t become no and the dative doesn’t suddenly become the genitive as happened with Quenya (I think that’s what it was anyway) but you get other things. Like, in English, using "me" as an accusative form of I is dropping out - we’re more likely to say "she went to the store with Jim and I" rather than with "me". Older forms of past tenses get replaced with -ed. No language is really a steady, eternal thing - that’s what makes it interesting.

Fun with English verbs:

    Sally Salter, she was a young teacher who taught,
    And her friend, Charley Church, was a preacher who praught;
    Though his enemies called him a screecher who scraught.

    His heart, when he saw her, kept sinking, and sunk;
    And his eye, meeting hers, began winking, and wunk;
    While she in her turn, fell to thinking, and thunk.

    In secret he wanted to speak, and he spoke,
    To seek with his lips what his heart long had soke,
    So he managed to let the truth leak, and it loke.

    The kiss he was dying to steal, then he stole;
    At the feet where he wanted to kneel, then he knole;
    And he said, "I feel better than ever I fole."
PhantomElf 15/Feb/2005 at 06:23 PM
Herald of Imladris Points: 732 Posts: 176 Joined: 18/Sep/2003
Nai hiruvalyë nólë sinomë
Evaleen 20/Feb/2005 at 09:03 PM
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I always thought that the elvish language was really beautiful, but I never knew what it was called. Quenya, right? We’re starting a new poetry unit in my Language arts class. It might be kinda cool to write a poem in elvish. And, to the person above me, what does that mean?
Lindissë 20/Feb/2005 at 09:35 PM
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Thorond: I looked it up... "yes" in Old English was giese.  Nothing drastic of course.  I do understand your point.  Ah, I’m Nandellë, by the way.

Evaleen: It means "May you find wisdom in this place".  In Quenya, of course.  There is another Elvish language, Sindarin... Though I won’t know anything about it until I find the time to go through Thorond’s course... in French...

PhantomElf 20/Feb/2005 at 09:54 PM
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Hi Evaleen,  As Uinen has kindly told you my quenya phrase means "May you find wisdom in this place".  I just used it as a "BUMP" to bring this thread back to where everyone could see it.  Have you read all the posts in this thread?  If you would care to, I really think you will find a lot of useful information concerning your query, and your wish to learn and to use the elvish languages.   There is also lots of helpful information in the "Language Help Desk 43"  at the top of the forum and the "(All New) Languages FAQ" wich is above that. 

redwolf 21/Feb/2005 at 03:41 AM
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I am hoping that i can learn to speak and write elvish. I am wondering if there is something that can at least help me learn how to write it quickly. If anyone here knows how i can learn it quickly be sure to tell me, please. i will be on later so tell me as soon as possible. thank you for your time.

Redwolf

PhantomElf 21/Feb/2005 at 03:47 AM
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Hi Redwolf, please read my last post.  I doubt there is a quick way to learn Elvish.  Please read the 1st post in this thread
Indis 21/Feb/2005 at 04:07 AM
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And do not forget to check out the Hall of Elvish Studies for Quenya and Sindarin language-courses in Thorond’s House "Tham Lammath Edhellin"
redwolf 21/Feb/2005 at 06:22 AM
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hello PhantomElf, i did read your last post and i know that there is no quick way to learn but i will keep looking for an easy way. oh Indis i checked out those places and the were very helpful thank you. If anyone finds a quick way please tell me.

Redwolf

Denethor II 21/Feb/2005 at 07:13 AM
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redwolf: Learning a language is never easy. Just because it’s a language that is not used in real life, does not mean that there should be an easy way then. It’s not just something you do, it’s learning a language, just like when you’re in school, so it takes time. There is no ’finding a quick way’, the fastest way has already been found, and that’s just by studying courses and examples, asking questions and trying things out. That’s just the way it is.
Brannion 22/Feb/2005 at 03:24 PM
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I personally translated my name, Brian... into Brannion... at the moment I can’t remember what two words made it up so.... *rushes to my DragonFlame*
 
_brand_ >> brann = lofty, noble, fine
 
_ion_ >> male possessive.
 
So really it means Noble Male... :)
 
My actual name (Brian) is Celtic for Noble Hill, or in some meanings, brave.
 
So I found the word for noble, and just added a male possessive to it and ended up with Brannion. :D
ldy_Evenstar 22/Feb/2005 at 04:30 PM
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Do you know that in the back of h Return Of The King [the book] it teaches elvish but its so complicated to learn it cuz it tell you this n then it changes but i would love to learn either Quenya or Sindrin eithir is fine. Also in the Councilofelorond.com u may go to languages n then in that webstie it also teaches elvish and it has translations and phrases you may learn. I wanna learn elvish soo bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indis 23/Feb/2005 at 05:24 AM
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Idy_Evenstar: If you are going to start of with the Council of Elrond Language Courses, you should take into account the following notes on these courses. Click here
Tathar telrunya 23/Feb/2005 at 09:40 AM
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If you want to learn elvish you must order a book of languages by tolkientown.com

tathar,

Lindissë 24/Feb/2005 at 12:01 PM
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Hm... Are those books even accurate?
Alasse Irena 24/Feb/2005 at 06:59 PM
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I want to learn Elvish too. Oh, and Welsh, but that’s not really relevant.
redwolf 25/Feb/2005 at 12:47 PM
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hey what is welsh? i just can’t seem to pick up the elvish language. it is so complicated.

redwolf 

Elarie Alvadrim 26/Feb/2005 at 08:35 AM
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I love languages!!!!! I want to know Elvish SO BAD!!! I also hope to know all the Middle-Earth languages.I tried the books’ appendixes but it  only has abit of Quenya and really no Sindarin(unless I checked wrong). But as Thatar said you have to order a book.
Ara Dunami 27/Feb/2005 at 12:29 PM
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I would love to learn Elvish.I would also like to learn alot of other language’s but I dont where to look for the course’s to teach myself.I had a page of Sindarin phrases but it was in my moms favorites on MSN.and she deleted it.so I’m pretty much lost on where to look.
Indis 27/Feb/2005 at 03:15 PM
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Ara46 and Elarie Alvadrim: Try this link. <click> You will find language courses of Sindarin and Quenya on-line of different levels of difficulty. It is a great way to start.
Madeinusa 04/Mar/2005 at 05:23 PM
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I’ve been reading alot of post about learning the Elvish language.  I have a few questions.  Is Quenya the Elvish language that many of the elves (in this realm lol) speak? I’ve seen post that recommend sites - are there audio versions for this?  When I learned Spanish, for example, I did much better when I could hear the language, so as to better emulate it.  Perhaps this was answered in another post.  If so, could you please direct me to it?  Thanks very much.
Arcelor 05/Mar/2005 at 06:09 PM
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What of the Daeron, is that not another form? I was just wondering. I saw something like that in the appendix in ROTK.
Pretzelman 08/Mar/2005 at 03:09 PM
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I do know some of the language of the Elven people, but I do not know all of it.  If someone could help me like find out a site that will help me learn most of the Elven language.  Someone please help me. Thank you very, very much.

"You have my sword."

Lindissë 08/Mar/2005 at 08:44 PM
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I’ll answer the Welsh question and leave the others to the experts... Welsh is the language spoken in Wales, which is part of the United Kingdom (right to the west of England).  It’s a Celtic language (like Gaelic, though if you look at the two, they are very different) and has become somewhat, though not completely, I don’t believe, replaced by English.  It is also the language that Sindarin is... modelled after is probably the best term to use.
Bellock 09/Mar/2005 at 05:12 AM
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I want to learn elvish also =). What is the differents between Quenya and Sindarin ? I want to learn the most helpful elvish there is to know lol so when I play Final Fantasy XI I can talk elvish on my LinkShell =). Is it hard learning elvish? or is it easy? My sister’s "Friend" Emailed me with elvish letters I was confused  lol. I want to learn a different language besides talking english my whole life lol. Elvish is actually usefull for talking to other elvish types =). If you guys can help me reply please Bye Bye.
Taur Nolofinwë 09/Mar/2005 at 06:30 AM
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I’ve already start a Elvish thread with easy senses and words you can find my thread >Here< And ofcourse you can find in this forum many things witch leran Elvish easier, I know learning another language is never easy, but If you really want to learn Elvish you can, but you must persevere!!

Bellock, The differences between Quenya and Sindarin are; that both of those languages developed from a common beginning. Sindarin is the language spoken by the Elves who remained in Middle-earth. And Quenya is the language of the Elves who journeyed to Aman. I don’t know Sindarin and Quenya have grammar differences...

Bellock 09/Mar/2005 at 07:46 AM
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NolofinwéOronrá  thank you for helping me =). I was a bit confused I will check your website soon or forum. I hope to learn elvish lol so I can speak to my sisters friend in elvish also =). Elvish is a nice language it should be a real language that people speak =).  Oh so a bunch of elfs left the mother land and the other stayed so Sindarin is the real language and Quenya is another lanuage to know where you are from I guess? Thanks for the reply Bye Bye.
Taur Nolofinwë 10/Mar/2005 at 07:09 AM
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Website It is a Dutch website but I’ne add the English senses too, a whole work but I’m glad to could help you, and I wish you goodluck to leraning Elvish. I just have Sindarin senses and words, but maybe you can check another threads with Queny information. Again goodluck
Taur Nolofinwë 10/Mar/2005 at 07:21 AM
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And by the way: feel free to come into the Elvish Games
Taur Nolofinwë 07/Apr/2005 at 11:44 PM
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Bellock, as you know I’m busy to create a Sindarin Forum, I’ve finished it already in Dutch, but I’d like to also make an English Sindarin Forum, so if I’ve finished it, it could may help you.... I’m busy to create lessions too, but I think, that’ll during a long time before I’ve finished the lessions. The lessions are very easy, and I hope to could finish it over maybe three months. I hope to could help you, >Just Dutch< (English is coming)
Taur Nolofinwë 08/Apr/2005 at 08:48 AM
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I’ve changes my site, it’s now Dutch and English; >Dutch and English< (Lessions are not finished right)
Morgoth Buaglir 08/Apr/2005 at 02:13 PM
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I would love to learn Elvish anyday! It could be a secret language and people would have no clue what I’m saying! It could be and insult for all they know! But they would probably bug me forever until I tell them the translation. But Tolkien only created a few words in Elvish but we couild use his method and create it in to a whole language
Taur Nolofinwë 09/Apr/2005 at 12:35 PM
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Morgoth Buaglir, yes a secret language, sound cool Ofcourse you can use Sindarin or Quenya (which are developed enough to be spoken and witten) as a secret language. I’ve a Sindarin dictionary >click here< Here you can translate words (which does without saying). Goodluck with your *secret language* I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you
redwolf 12/Apr/2005 at 10:45 AM
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Denethor II: i understand that learning a language usually isn’t easy but you can not use school in this. when i took french class i learned that very quickly. so i thought i could pick up elvish just as quick put it is way more difficult than i thought it would be. as i learned in a few languages, every language has a secret to learning it. if i could find it then i would be able to learn it. until then i guess i will continue to have a headache because of this language.

  

Serpentking 29/Apr/2005 at 09:07 AM
Banned Points: 606 Posts: 61 Joined: 19/Apr/2005

Grey Company is a disgrace to Tolkien, because it is randomly generated.  The elvish words on that site are usually words that do not even exist or are a combination of Quenya and Sindarin.  It just doesn’t do Tolkien justice... If you want a really good website that teaches elvish, I can name a couple.  The sites that I learned off of are: Ardalambion.com and Councilofelrond.com.  Both of these sites are very reputable in my opinion, and teach both forms of elvish correctly.  Also they both teach about the lesser languages that Tolkien created which aren’t as big as sindarin or quenya, but can be helpful to know about (rohirric, black speech, entish, etc.). Also, one last thing: it’s not much use learning elvish if you don’t inturn know how to write it.  The elvish system of writing called Tengwar is in my opinion, very easy to learn, and takes about 45 minutes to an hour to understand.  It looks very cool and is essential for the person who speaks elvish-- why not be able to write it too?  There are a few good sites out there that teach it, I don’t remember the names-- sorry!  At least try and look for them.

Lothlorein 30/Apr/2005 at 11:06 AM
Gardener of Lothlorien Points: 192 Posts: 48 Joined: 09/Apr/2005

I’d love to learn elvish because it’s awesome i know a bit of elvish but not much i can only write it in elvish runes (quenya). I don’t know how to speak it or write it in the english alphabet form. this is all i can do in elvish.

I love tolkein because he’s awesome

Elefold 30/Apr/2005 at 08:33 PM
Apprentice of Minas Tirith Points: 195 Posts: 411 Joined: 02/Apr/2005
Learning a language in my opinion would need the help of others. such as english class. You could ask others simple questions, and you could ask tough questions to the teacher who can speak it fluently. I would like to learn elvish for the same reasons as Neriath. But I am afraid that this thread couldnt do that. But who knows what power Thorond has in his head.
Denethor II 02/May/2005 at 07:08 AM
Porter of Minas Tirith Points: 4412 Posts: 10995 Joined: 07/Aug/2002
Elefold: One thread is not nearly enough to learn Quenya or Sindarin..
VioletTook 06/May/2005 at 12:11 PM
Brewer of the Shire Points: 950 Posts: 679 Joined: 30/Apr/2005
Definately not, Denethor II.You would have to have at least three or more. I know that if there is an Elvish class of some sort, there would have to be a beginner class, one for people who have experience in the language, and another for the ones who excel at the `head of their class`. I may be wrong but it is only an idea.