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The Debating Den
Inter-Kingdom Debate League Season V

Round 1: Isendard at Mordor
Topic: Manwe controlled the fate of Arda through his eagles. --- (Prop: Isendard,Op: Mordor)
Result: 76 - 77 --- Mordor Victory!

Borrarz, Rings, Imrazor Azrubel (Rougy) and Turin were the debaters from Mordor this round. They gave some passionate words on the Eagles and how they were used, and what it meant to control fate. They spoke also on fate itself, and if it was even possible for the Valar to control fate. In the end, they had the upper hand, beating the Wizards by a narrow margin of 1 point.

Round 2: Mordor at Khazad-Dum
Topic: Throughout history, the Dwarves love of gold caused them more trouble than good. --- (Prop: Mordor,Op: KD)
Result: 68 - 72 --- Mordor loss.

Burzbag, Borrarz, Rings, and Bashtakh were the participants from Mordor this round. They had some interesting arguments about the greed of Dwarves, and also brought in references to the Dwarven Rings of Power, of the greed Dwarves displayed over their possessions in Moria and Erebor. However, a 5 point penalty for the first speaker being past the deadline cost the minions the victory.

Round 3: By-Mordor

The team had a brief respite to rest up from the previous debate and prepare for the debate against the traditional powerhouse, Minas Tirith.

Round 4: Mordor at Minas Tirith
Topic: Elrond did not offer enough help in the destruction of Sauron. --- (Prop: Mordor,Op: MT)
Result: 72.5 - 76 --- Mordor loss.

Rings, Borrarz, Hoth, and Turin were the debaters against Minas Tirith. The Mordorians did an admirable job describing what "enough" was. It was a hard debate to convince a judge that Elrond didn't offer enough help, because Sauron was destroyed, so the logical thing to think is that there was enough. Mordor argued, among other things, that Elrond was lazy, greedy, and was merely offering help for his own profit. In the end, the Mordorian team actually outscored the two-time defending champions Minas Tirith, but again a penalty for lateness snatched victory from their hands.

Round 5: Teams: Rohan at Mordor
Topic: The sons of Fëanor could have and should have refused to take part in the Oath of Fëanor and its fulfillment. --- (Prop: Rohan,Op: Mordor)
Result: 68 - 81 --- Mordor Victory!

Bashtakh, Rings, Hoth and Turin debated with Rohan in Round 5. They lined up strong arguments, starting with defining exactly what was required of both them and Rohan in the debate. From there they went into what part family loyalty might have played, and what fulfillment of the Oath meant. They worked together well and presented a strong case, countering Meduseld's arguments strongly and effectively, as can be seen in the score.

Round 6: Teams: Rivendell at Mordor
Topic: The Elves' arrogance was more harmful to them than Morgoth's plots. --- (Prop: Rivendell,Op: Mordor)
Result: 76 - 70 --- Mordor loss.

Vugar, Bashtakh, Rings, and Turin presented Mordor's case for this debate. They used a variety of arguments, ranging from Melkor's servants, the "most terrible of Elf-banes", ie the Balrogs, to Dragons. Vugar also covered the 'First seed of Morgoth', planting that desire of jealousy and lust and pride in the Elves which would cause so much hurt later. Then Team Mordor went on to argue about specific strategies and plots of Morgoth's, such as the fall of Nargothrond and Gondolin. Turin wrapped up with a strong argument on Melkor's brining forth Orcs from Elves and how the race of Orcs was ever a plague to the Elves. In the end, however, Rivendell stole the victory in a startling upset.

Round 7: Teams: Mordor at Fangorn
Topic: Seen as a whole, the Stewards of Gondor were failures. --- (Prop: Mordor,Op: Fangorn)
Result: 57 - 68 --- Mordor loss.

Turin, Hoth, Rings, and Bashtakh presented arguments in this debate. Turin started off with an introductory argument which gave foreshadows of the ideas to follow - both of the moral failure of the Stewards and the geographical failure. However, after Turin spoke, things went downhill. There were some problems, Rings was unavailable to post for RL reasons, and Mordor was forced to skip a post. Hoth was the next to go, and he spoke much on how the Stewards were usurpers and moral failures. Rings was later allowed to present a post (because her circumstances were unavoidable), and spoke on moral and psychological reason the stewards were failures. Then, coming in as a sub for Borrarz, Bashtakh enabled Mordor to have a fourth post by arguing that the Stewards rejected the right of the true Kings to return, and thus failed. Mordor's troubles this round cost them the debate, but it is remarkable that they managed to work through it to such a close score (Rings' penalty was 10 points, meaning just a 1 point difference in score with that aside).

Round 8: Teams: Lorien at Mordor
Topic: Sauron was a better military strategist than Morgoth. --- (Prop: Lorien,Op: Mordor)
Result: 64 - 67 --- Mordor Victory!

Mordor boasted the lineup of Nargurzir, Vugar, Hoth and Turin against Lorien. Their arguments were wide-ranging, traveling from the inherent power of each Sauron and Melkor, to how each put that power to use. Hoth spoke well on how Melkor corrupted Elves and Men, and set free slaves from Angband, thus weakening and separating his enemies from each other. Mordor wrapped up with an argument from Turin about Melkor's Ring vs Sauron's Ring and how Sauron's Ring required Morgoth's to be effective. Mordor bounced back from their stinging loss in Fangorn to eclipse the Elves in this debate with a 3-point margin.

Round 9: Teams: The Shire at Mordor
Topic: Orcs were not loyal to Sauron but only did what they had to to stay alive. --- (Prop: Shire,Op: Mordor)
Result: 52 - 71 --- Mordor Victory!

Vugar, Rings, Hoth and Turin showed up to debate the Hobbits in the Black Land. This debate, for both sides, centered around examples and extrapolation. Mordor started off their side heavy with Vugar bringing some specific examples to light. Rings back off slightly to 'zoom out', giving less specific cases but more general ones. Hoth came in hard with a Servant vs Slave argument, showing Orcs to be the former. Finally, Turin brought a close to the regular season of Mordor with an argument about his favorite
Topic - Orcs. He went into what Orcs were like by nature (having free wills), and what it means to be loyal, and from there he launched into how Sauron had troubles with his Orcs but still managed to hold a viable army together. The end
Result of Mordor's efforts was a decisive victory for the Minions.

Mordor finished the season in fourth place with a record of 4 - 4. At home their record as 4 - 1, a landslide showing strong performance at their 'home field'. Away the record was 0 - 3, showing that Mordor was more comfortable arguing the Opposistion. They scored a total of 563.5 points throughout the season. Turin, one of the leaders of the team throughout the season, was honored with having the highest average of debate main arguments of the entire league. He was tied for first when including everyone who made at least 3 posts, but he sustained those scores and was also top of the list for those who made 5 or more posts. Hoth also was in the top 10 list for the debaters, and both of these two, Turin and Hoth, were voted to participate in the All Stars match following the season.

Some other Season V stats include:
Turin and Rings --- 7 posts each
Hoth --- 5 posts
Bashtakh --- 4 posts
Vugar and Borrarz --- 3 posts
Imrazor, Narguzir, and Burzbag --- 1 post

Turin's average wound up falling to 17, but was enough to put him at the top of the league leaders board.
Hoth averaged 16.4
Rings and Vugar averaged in the mid-12 range (12.43 and 12.67)
Borrarz average 13.67

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Season IV


(Not yet completed)

Round 1: Teams: White Council at Mordor
Topic: The race of Men can not be trusted. ---- Propostion (Mordor) Opposition (WC)
Result:

Round 2: Teams: Mordor at Khazad-Dum
Topic: The Elves were selfish in not giving Men more help in defeating Sauron in the Third Age. ---- Propostion (KD) Opposition (Mordor)
Result:

Round 3: Teams: Meduseld at Mordor
Topic: If Rohan had not come to the aid of Gondor, the Battle of Pelennor Fields would have been lost. ---- Propostion (Mordor) Opposition (Meduseld)
Result:

Round 4: Teams: Mordor at Minas Tirith
Topic: Without the power of the Three Rings, Sauron would not have been defeated. ---- Propostion (MT) Opposition (Mordor)
Result:

Round 5: Teams: Mordor at Lorien
Topic: If Gandalf had not been "reborn", Sauron would not have been defeated. ---- Propostion (Lorien) Opposition (Mordor)
Result:

Round 6: By- Mordor

Round 7: Teams: The Shire at Mordor
Topic: Lúthien played a greater role in retrieving the Silmaril than Beren. ---- Propostion (Mordor) Opposition (Shire)
Result:

Round 8: Teams: Mordor at Fangorn
Topic: Orome should have continued pursuit of Melkor after the Silmarils were stolen. ---- Propostion (Fangorn) Opposition (Mordor)
Result:

Round 9: Teams: Rivendell at Mordor
Topic: The Kinslaying of Alaquonde was preventable. ---- Propostion (Mordor) Opposition (Rivvy)
Result:

 

 

 

 

 

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